isnt it illegal to shoot wolves?

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Seems like there is a lot of confusion (and passion) around the wolf topic. I am not an expert either but I believe the grey wolf was delisted in MN this year and is now managed by the state. I believe it is still illegal to shoot a wolf unless it poses a direct threat to your life or property.

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Just to be clear, this is not correct. The delisting of wolves was halted after several groups successfully challenged the process. This ruling impacted wolves in a number of states, not just MN.

The MN DNR has gone on the record as being willing to consider establishing wolf hunting and trapping seasons under certain conditions, but obviously that’s only when the Feds finally step out of the way.

It is technically illegal to shoot any wolf, regardless of what or who it is threatening. In the case of a threat to life or propertty, providing it could be reasonably proved, then charges probably would not be sought, but anyone who thinks they can just whack a wolf and then claim it was threatening them may well end up facing some serious Federal charges if their story doesn’t add up.

Grouse

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Seems like there is a lot of confusion (and passion) around the wolf topic. I am not an expert either but I believe the grey wolf was delisted in MN this year and is now managed by the state. I believe it is still illegal to shoot a wolf unless it poses a direct threat to your life or property.

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Just to be clear, this is not correct. The delisting of wolves was halted after several groups successfully challenged the process. This ruling impacted wolves in a number of states, not just MN.

The MN DNR has gone on the record as being willing to consider establishing wolf hunting and trapping seasons under certain conditions, but obviously that’s only when the Feds finally step out of the way.

It is technically illegal to shoot any wolf, regardless of what or who it is threatening. In the case of a threat to life or propertty, providing it could be reasonably proved, then charges probably would not be sought, but anyone who thinks they can just whack a wolf and then claim it was threatening them may well end up facing some serious Federal charges if their story doesn’t add up.

Grouse

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Idaho and Montana have state control. Minnesota with the largest pack of gray wolves does not. Again I’d love to hear how the wolf population supposedly is staying in check? By International Wolf Center numbers even the low estimates of 3400 wolves will hold roughly 425 packs. Each pack has one Alpha breeding pair (425 breeding wolves). Each litter consists of on average 4-6 pups. Please someone explain to me HOW the added 2000 wolves this spring probably once again will not raise state numbers from 3400??

Very interested in the philosophy. WAITING. BTW again utilizing International WOlf Center numbers those 2000 wolves will eat another 30-40,0000 deer if anyone really cares.

Spontanious combustion??

Hey Chris, I wasn’t trying to jerk your chain here. For me, “up north” is usually just a little further north than where I happen to be standing at any given time. I lived up in your neck of the woods for a time in the 90’s(north end of Kab) and would still be there but for trying to make a living. I remember then(16 yrs ago) that wolves were VERY common, but at that time the deer and even moose populations were at least stable. The numbers of wolves in both states has grown by leaps and bounds since then. I supposed if I ever hit tundra I’d turn back south a bit,(I like trees in my scenery) but other than that I can’t seem to get enough. My current “up north” happens to be Oneida county, Wisconsin. Wisconsin has similar issues-an ever growing wolf population; a population that gets really dense once you consider that 90% of it resides in the upper third of the state where I live. I have to admit, I LIKE wolves and knowing there around. I guess what I was trying to say is, I don’t want them to overpopulate and do REAL damage to other game populations; I also absolutely DON’T want to see them eradicated. I can tell you in my neck of the woods there’s large numbers of people who would like to see just that, and some of them sit in office. Makes me a little nervous. Lest I’m sounding too much like a tree hugger, I can tell you it’s not so; I can get as redneck as the next guy. I just happen to come from a place that has ruined it’s own wild places over the years. In reality it was ruined before I came along, but the changes I’ve witnessed between my childhood and now back there are both scary and sad, and I’m really not that old. So I guess you could say I’m pretty sensitive and protective about the wild places that are left in this world. Tree hugger? No. Guy who just REALLY gets off on any excuse to get out in the woods and on the water, and who NEEDS that to forget about the rest of the world for a time and stay sane? Definitely.
-Rev

We are in complete agreement. NOBODY here has wanted to eradicate wolves. Not that has been mentioned on this site anyway. Eliminating wolves is as irresponsible as letting them eliminate Deer.

YES true wild is Northern Minnesota. We love it and those like you have that lived in it understand the vast forest land that makes man seem small. We understand true solitude. Most guys don’t live here for the robust economy. Many guys including myself have willingly walked from higher economic grounds to an increased quality of life. Life that doesn’t revolve around blacktop. We have seen wolves, fishers, pine martens and Moose outside of the zoo. We love it and cherish it; This is our backyard. Nobody here appreciates the wild woods more than this guy henpecking this morning. As a part time outdoor writer my backdrop during the winter overlooks Voyageurs National Park. I see wolves…..and thoroughly enjoy it. I’ve written articles about the majestic nature of the Gray wolf. Still as long as we as a state manage big game we need to manage the #1 predator in Zone 100. Our Federal Government is not only confused on budget planning, but also managing Minnesota’s big game. Apparently it feels it knows more about it than we do. I will strongly disagree everyday of the week. Manage wolves…….NOT elminate.

For the record I am agains the guys that might hint they would like to wipe wolves off the plate as well. THOSE guys are hurting the cause as well. Still these dim bulbs should have as much control of common sense management as the animal rights organizations. Currently we know which out of touch man has grips on control.

Don’t misunderstand me here. I am not venting mismanagement towards anyone here or on this thread. I do happen to believe we have some lurkers who feel guys up north are simply out of touch with reality. I promise you there are many supporters who truly have no idea how brutal eating 60,000 wolves alive truly is. They aren’t doing that at the wolf center. My careful peeling of the onion to uncover the truth is in hopes to expose those will little factual information to back hard fought ignorance. If anyone wants to discuss this with factual information backing a theory my ears are radar seeking like our scared deer.

SO again I will wait for my question of HOW wolves are staying in check? I’ve got time………..Though the ice is forming on the bay today!!

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SO again I will wait for my question of HOW wolves are staying in check?
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I think it was posted before, no food, numbers go down, lots of food the numbers go up..
Unless of course man gets involved and starts over riding nature.

So what your saying is the we should once again over ride nature so we can hunt more deer????

If you can make it work, more power to ya.

Al

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SO again I will wait for my question of HOW wolves are staying in check?
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I think it was posted before, no food, numbers go down, lots of food the numbers go up..
Unless of course man gets involved and starts over riding nature.

So what your saying is the we should once again over ride nature so we can hunt more deer????

If you can make it work, more power to ya.

Al

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I think the elephant is in the room, so I will acknowledge it.

People are shooting them.

With ~3500 of them in the state, the frequency of stories I have heard of people that take the law into their own hands is pretty astonishing. I would assume I am hearing only a fraction of the actual violations. One trusted person told me that he doesn’t know anybody that wouldn’t shoot one if they saw it…….that is a pretty big statement…. It happens a lot – and I think it is wrong – but it is definately a factor.

Chris – I’d wager you’ve heard a tale or two just like I have……no?

T

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“”
SO again I will wait for my question of HOW wolves are staying in check?
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I think it was posted before, no food, numbers go down, lots of food the numbers go up..
Unless of course man gets involved and starts over riding nature.

So what your saying is the we should once again over ride nature so we can hunt more deer????

If you can make it work, more power to ya.

Al

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So starvation is your management theory?? Decimate deer and then let the overpopulation of wolves starve?? BRILLIANT.

BTW if you deer hunt you support deer management, so stop and think about that for a second …….OR as you put it “Man Management”. This is NOT about shooting MORE deer, but yes I’ll throw my hat in the corner of keeping a healthy deer herd on the wolf range. Does Deer hunting support the DNR in a big way………YES SIR ALLEN. Is it a big idustry……….YES SIR. DO you support it?? Still you must agree that both the protection and introduction of wolves in many regions this IS a form of “MAN’S” management right?? MAN involvement to help an animal establish then prosper. So you believe that we reintroduce or federally protect an animal with no goals for a sustainable pack?? Irresponsible.

Oh and BTW……..Why don’t we just stop management all together Allen. Guys can openly stomp hundreds of walleyes swat 50-60 grouse?? MAN management huh?? No place for Man’s involvement huh?? Hey Allen……..MAN HUNTS AND FISHES. WE NEED MANAGEMENT. I feel ya, but unfortunately don’t agree with you.

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So starvation is your management theory?? Decimate deer and then let the overpopulation of wolves starve?? BRILLIANT
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Get real, that’s been nature’s way for more years than we’ve been on this planet.

Off the cuff comments from guys at the coffee shop hold little weight with me. Poaching is not the answer. Do guys shoot wolves?? Well they shoot cows, dogs, horses, atv’s………I’ll go with yes. Is it the management Minnesota or Washington imposes on landowners?? Your call.

When the state shutdown the legal purchase of a fishing license do you suppose a few guys soaked bait?? Do you blame them??

OH BTW I saw a couger with my own eyes. Though we don’t have any here right?? Strange thing is many others have had these same imaginary sightings. I’m guessing they are all wolf haters.

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“”
So starvation is your management theory?? Decimate deer and then let the overpopulation of wolves starve?? BRILLIANT
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Get real, that’s been nature’s way for more years than we’ve been on this planet.

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Get real…….?? Just wanted your take on it. Please correct me if I’m off base here Allen; Manage everything else, but do not manage the number one predator in the gray wolf. Interesting. Do you support federally protecting coyotes as well, or are they not quite as lucky??

Oh – don’t think for a minute that I am advocating the ILLEGAL and WASTEFUL practice of shooting a protected animal, because I am not. I was merely pointing out that there are a lot of people out there that DO think it is okay. It happens – and I think it happens a lot. (Purely an opinion). There are a LOT of guns in the woods during deer season – and amongst those guns are some angry people. IMHO, those people are having an effect.

T

They probably are Timmy. It is unfortunate that many of these guys must feel strong enough in their belief system to involve themselves in a well known federal offense. DO I agree with “THOSE” guys that wolves are mismanaged……..ABSOLUTELY 100%. Would I shoot a wolf…….NOPE not until I can legally. BTW I’ve had MANY chances. Allow Minnesota to have some control over an escalating wolf pack and gain some needed revenue for the DNR?? WOWSER would that seem like an economically sound management plan. I’ll put it together if we don’t have the brilliance to do it. YOU bet I don’t place a wolf on a pedestal as so many of us do. I think it is laughable how we can place more value on one animal than another. I swear some guys have a “WOLF CRUSH”. Yet who gives a **** about the coyotes, deer, moose…… Rack em and Stack em right??

X10, Chris!

I want a season on them badly. I would love to take one, but unless I cross the border, I don’t see it happening in my lifetime. Yes – my faith in Washington is THAT low.

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X10, Chris!

I want a season on them badly. I would love to take one, but unless I cross the border, I don’t see it happening in my lifetime. Yes – my faith in Washington is THAT low.

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I feel ya Timmy!! The not so popular truth is each man will accept a certain amount of injustice. This surely is much farther reaching than the wolf debacle. Man…… EVERY man will eventually put a foot down when he will stand no more for injustice. Maybe it is from a failed judicial system that has wronged his family. Maybe it is a ridiculous financial injustice experienced at the hands of an epic fail from local government. Then maybe on a lesser degree guys are sick of their 240 acres of land void of deer with ingorant people at the controls. Each man has a different tipping point. Reality. America has a pretty rich history of saying……..OK UNCLE……….THAT IS ENOUGH.

ON many many many levels America that has any skin in the game is crying uncle. I’m sure the Gray Wolf is quite a ways down the list of importance.

I’m going to bow out here guys. The Gray wolf debate is a hot button here in Northern Minnesota. Most believe strongly we are currently mismanaging an escalating pack up here. Deer are being decimated in many zones and most of us up here feel decimation will in turn lead to starvation. My point is made. Everyone has a right to his or her own opinion. This is only personal for the Deer and Moose.

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“”
So starvation is your management theory?? Decimate deer and then let the overpopulation of wolves starve?? BRILLIANT
“”

Get real, that’s been nature’s way for more years than we’ve been on this planet.

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Get real…….?? Just wanted your take on it. Please correct me if I’m off base here Allen; Manage everything else, but do not manage the number one predator in the gray wolf. Interesting. Do you support federally protecting coyotes as well, or are they not quite as lucky??

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Don’t read more into my post then what I said please, I only mentioned that we haven’t been all that good at managing anything imho.

I did not suggest how we should manage the wolf’s or anything else for that matter in MN.

I did say nature normally does a good job of keeping a balance and that was in response to your earlier question.

I’ll let people who know figure out how many deer/wolf’s is the “right” number.
Al

Possibly you can see based on your comments minutes ago how one my misinterpret your philosophy on game management. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks for clarity.

“I did not suggest how we should manage the wolf’s or anything else for that matter in MN.”

“I think it was posted before, no food, numbers go down, lots of food the numbers go up..
Unless of course man gets involved and starts over riding nature.”

“Get real, that’s been nature’s way for more years than we’ve been on this planet.”

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The not so popular truth is each man will accept a certain amount of injustice. This surely is much farther reaching than the wolf debacle. Man…… EVERY man will eventually put a foot down when he will stand no more for injustice. Maybe it is from a failed judicial system that has wronged his family. Maybe it is a ridiculous financial injustice experienced at the hands of an epic fail from local government. Then maybe on a lesser degree guys are sick of their 240 acres of land void of deer with ingorant people at the controls. Each man has a different tipping point.

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So then aren’t the guys who are currently shooting wolves doing so because they’re guys who’ve already reached that tipping point? (some obviously have a lot less tolerance than others for governmental meddling and incompetence)

PERSONAL DISCLAIMER: I’m not condoning (or condemning) their actions, just contemplating the reason-for/cause-of their actions.

I think they should be managed once their numbers are back to what they were in the first place before man almost decimated them. I am not for just starting to manage them so hunters have more deer to target. I could careless how many deer 1 wolf kills in a year as much as I could care less how many total deer man takes.

If they are blowing past the population they had before they were decimated, yes it is time to manage them. But I don’t know those numbers. I’ll leave that number crunching up to people who went to school for it, not to people who do population counts based on their sightings.

Kind of ironic the only reason man has to manage wildlife is because of man.

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The not so popular truth is each man will accept a certain amount of injustice. This surely is much farther reaching than the wolf debacle. Man…… EVERY man will eventually put a foot down when he will stand no more for injustice. Maybe it is from a failed judicial system that has wronged his family. Maybe it is a ridiculous financial injustice experienced at the hands of an epic fail from local government. Then maybe on a lesser degree guys are sick of their 240 acres of land void of deer with ingorant people at the controls. Each man has a different tipping point.

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So then aren’t the guys who are currently shooting wolves doing so because they’re guys who’ve already reached that tipping point? (some obviously have a lot less tolerance than others for governmental meddling and incompetence)

PERSONAL DISCLAIMER: I’m not condoning (or condemning) their actions, just contemplating the reason-for/cause-of their actions.

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We can all draw our own conclusions on that. I say goverment agencies need to recapture respect from the general public. I would say this currently is at an all time low on many levels. This will cause problems far beyond the Gray Wolf I’m afraid.

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I think they should be managed once their numbers are back to what they were in the first place before man almost decimated them. I am not for just starting to manage them so hunters have more deer to target. I could careless how many deer 1 wolf kills in a year as much as I could care less how many total deer man takes.

If they are blowing past the population they had before they were decimated, yes it is time to manage them. But I don’t know those numbers. I’ll leave that number crunching up to people who went to school for it, not to people who do population counts based on their sightings.

Kind of ironic the only reason man has to manage wildlife is because of man.

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Sounds good!! Let’s not stop with wolves though. Let’s build elk herds to years past and mow down industry so the buffalo can roam freely…..YOUR BACKYARD. I’ll research past numbers to estimate space that will be needed from Richfield. Might want to move the swingset kids.

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Sounds good!! Let’s not stop with wolves though. Let’s build elk herds to years past and mow down industry so the buffalo can roam freely…..YOUR BACKYARD. I’ll research past numbers to estimate space that will be needed from Richfield. Might want to move the swingset kids.

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You are really good at building support and convincing people to join your side.

They can reintroduce them all they want down here. They’ll just end up being food for the coyotes we have around here or they’ll get pushed out of the metro area.

Do you catch a lot of red herring on rainy? You can talk about them all you want, but you know the IDO rule. If there aren’t pictures, they don’t exist.

You misread my thought process. My thinking is many that support the Gray wolf live in an area that has truly decimated wildlife. I just figure you need a draw so you can watch the wolves out your back window. Sure Gray wolves will peel your family dog off the porch to start, but they’ll need further nutrtion. I just think if you reintroduce buffalo, after the wolves decimate our deer herd in Northern Minnesota they’ll road trip to your backyard. Where all the love is. Seems like a perfect answer. Please don’t tell me how our backyard should be managed while doing the opposite in yours. Just doesn’t hold much water.

But won’t the Wolves eating the Deer lower my auto insurance? I mean I would rather run over a Wolf then a Deer.

we could actually use a few more predators in the Twin Cities to help keep the prolific “urban” deer herd in check

But can you imagine the uproar if a wolf or cougar showed up; even in one of the metro area’s so called Nature Centers?

Hell every time a yearling black bear gets pushed out of its mother’s territory and wanders into an outer-ring burb, the soccer moms freak out and the sherriffs to have kill the thing.

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You misread my thought process. My thinking is many that support the Gray wolf live in an area that has truly decimated wildlife. I just figure you need a draw so you can watch the wolves out your back window. Sure Gray wolves will peel your family dog off the porch to start, but they’ll need further nutrtion. I just think if you reintroduce buffalo, after the wolves decimate our deer herd in Northern Minnesota they’ll road trip to your backyard. Where all the love is. Seems like a perfect answer. Please don’t tell me how our backyard should be managed while doing the opposite in yours. Just doesn’t hold much water.

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Mmmm, Red Herring. Delicious.

I am a good master. I don’t leave my dog out on a porch to get peeled. We have hawks, owls, racoons, possum and poisonous shrews. I also have a fence because I decided it is safer.

The opposite? Have I called for the management of wolves in Richfield?

If you really want to get to me, tell me the wolves will eat all those horses I like to ride.

Couple distant pics of wolves from ice fishing last year. The one pic where the Gray wolf is just entering the woods is frankly quite disappointing. My friend and I watched a pack of roughly 9-11 wolves cross the ice. We tried to capture pics while driving an atv on GLARE ice. It was difficult to say the least. Anyway we got 1 wolf in the pic. I’ll await your pics of the Elk herd that roams Richfield. This is excting!!

Oh my God pictures? That proves absolutely everything you said is 100% correct! I think I see a porch dog in its mouth.

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we could actually use a few more predators in the Twin Cities to help keep the prolific “urban” deer herd in check

But can you imagine the uproar if a wolf or cougar showed up; even in one of the metro area’s so called Nature Centers?

Hell every time a yearling black bear gets pushed out of its mother’s territory and wanders into an outer-ring burb, the soccer moms freak out and the sherriffs to have kill the thing.

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CAN I GET AN AMEN!! NOT IN OUR BACKYARD!! But here is what you guys should do up there….. AND YES horses probably taste as good as Moose or beef cattle. Don’t worry they’d be more interested in the newborn. Those don’t count right??

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Oh my God pictures? That proves absolutely everything you said is 100% correct! I think I see a porch dog in its mouth.

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Actually my information is generated from the International Wolf Center. How about yours?? Pics were simply upon your request.