Permit holder involved in fatal shooting

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Thats another thing that the DA would have to try to do. All the defense would have to do is put the instructor in the chair and tell what his crteria is on who passes and who doesn’t. It would be pretty hard to convince a jury that the instructors decesions were wrong and beings instructors have a keen eye to notice certain criteria points in the direction that the good surmaritan probably made the right judgements. Heres another thing to think about. Beings this is the first time permits have been issued in Minnesota I’d say its a pretty sure bet that the instructor had a keener eye on who passes and who doesen’t. hes more then likely a person knowing he had to make a 100% clearing call because it is the first time permits were issued. At a time like this he knows he has to be right, which only shows me the surmaratine made the right judgemnt calls when chasing the robber.

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instructors really have very little ability to deter someone from receiving their permit. they simply teach a state approved course, and the only real testing is a range exercise at the end of the classwork.

it is up to the county who issues the permit, to discover if this person is a felon or has previous issues that would prevent him/her from getting a permit to carry.

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Being 56 years old I might have a different perspective. I have seen 100’s if not 1000’s of people who would have no business being anywhere near a gun. I’m not against people having permits, I just want the testing to be very hard to get one. Seems people think “it’s their right” every time sometime new comes along. The permit can never be taken for granted like a drivers license is in my opinion.

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that is your opinion. the right to own and use a firearm is a god given right, by the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution.

Judgemental opinions like yours are what fuel the anti-gun society.

unless someone is a proven criminal, or has a history of violence, etc, they have the right to own and bear arms, and be questioned by no one.

this is what our country was founded on.

and just to clear things up, Minnesota does not have a conceal and carry law. We have a “Permit to Carry”. which allows us to carry a firearm (pistol or long gun) open or concealed.

Just an FYI is all.

I think it’s notable that the liberal ‘plutocracy’ of the Twin Cities has been quiet regarding this issue.

Let’s hope it stays that way…

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I think it’s notable that the liberal ‘plutocracy’ of the Twin Cities has been quiet regarding this issue.

Let’s hope it stays that way…

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Can you translate?

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I think it’s notable that the liberal ‘plutocracy’ of the Twin Cities has been quiet regarding this issue.

Let’s hope it stays that way…

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Can you translate?

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I’ll give it a shot

The liberal plutocracy has been silent … We haven’t heard a peep regarding this incident from the likes of RT Rybeck or Spike Moss

Let’s hope it stays that way… because we don’t need anymore of the non-sense that they typically spew

which blames these situations on the “prolific presence of guns” in our society

when the REAL cause of these types of problems is the “prolific presence of dirtbags” in our society who have no regard for the property (or life) of others and who take no accountability for their own actions

yah, what he said…

Thanks, never saw this word “plutocracy” before, didn’t know what was meant.

Yah, that’s what we need, vigilantism to solve our problems. The guy put himself in the situation to use his gun and its simple as that.

God given right to own and use a gun and Darwinism give me a break phrases like this are so over the top its laughable.

And what does liberal plutocracy, the power of the wealthy who happen to be a liberal, have to do with this? Conservative paranoia?, again?.

sorry, it is kinda a mickey mouse word…

wiki calls it rule by the wealthy, who had more votes than the poor; the political control of the state by an oligarchy of the wealthy.

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The guy put himself in the situation to use his gun and its simple as that.

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OR it’s as simple as; the perp put himself and a little old lady in a situation that was responded to by a Good Samaritan
(Good Samaritan is the term being used by the Hennepin County Attorney’s office in reference to the permit holder)

I have been pondering getting my CC license, for awhile now. The only thing stopping me, is situations such as this one, that I may get involved in. For those of you with the license, do scenarios like this worry you ? Obviously, this had to unfold in seconds and a correctly placed bullet is final. Would all of you with a CC license, break up a robbery and report it, or chase the perp… knowing they also have a weapon and risk your life ? I have always wanted to carry a weapon, because a nut can attack anyone at any time and if it was me or my family, I would want it to be an even fight. I also fear I would get involved in something I probably shouldn’t. (I know I got a little John Wayne in me)

Granted, I would not stand by and watch some old lady get pistol whipped, I would use my bare hands or anything else at my disposal at the time, all the way to a grenade to stop the d-bag…. that’s my main worry.

I can only say what I would do. I would have called 911 with an accurate description of the bad guy and would have offered aid to the woman. If I was still a cop I may have pursued. What this gentleman did may not fit the spirit of CC laws and he may have to pay for his actions.

So that’s it? As a good samaritan we are now limited to hiding behind a tree with a cell phone? What if he wasn’t carrying a pistol and killed the D-Bag with a bat?

While most of us aren’t cops perhaps our willingness to not chase down a D-Bag and hold them for the cops is allowing D-Bags to feel they can get away with being criminals.

If you feel confident you can convince 12 of your peers that you were right in pursuing someone who was running away..and you killed him…that you were within the scope of the law to do so…more power to you. I am only speaking for me based on what I have heard. Vigilante justice is not the answer. But I won’t be having any memorials for this punk either. Good riddance.

Vigilante justice is not the answer???
Then pray tell what is?

It sure ain’t the cops, or the court system.

For anybody who’s trying to decide whether they want to get involved in getting a carry permit, I’d suggest at least taking a good carry course first, you’ll find out from people who know what you can and can’t do.

I’ve taken several now and learn something each time I take one.
Al

Did any of the courses tell you that running after someone and shooting them is OK? I have been through two and have a LEO background, and I can tell you in no circumstances is this advised. Even if he chased this dirt ball and he pulled the gun on the good guy and good guy kills him like it sounds happened. Was this “Self Defense” when he put himself in that position? It will be interesting to see how this goes. We may see legal “Open Season” on gang bangers and purse Snatchers.

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Did any of the courses tell you that running after someone and shooting them is OK? I have been through two and have a LEO background, and I can tell you in no circumstances is this advised. Even if he chased this dirt ball and he pulled the gun on the good guy and good guy kills him like it sounds happened. Was this “Self Defense” when he put himself in that position? It will be interesting to see how this goes. We may see legal “Open Season” on gang bangers and purse Snatchers.

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No they didn’t, and like many, I think he may be in trouble, but we need to take back the streets, because the cops aren’t/can’t do it.

When my wife won’t go down to the corner store because the wanna be’s start harrasing her, it’s time to be able to defend yourself.

When the neighbor had someone breaking in to her house and it was 45 minutes before the cops got there, it’s time to defend yourself.

When the older couple on the corner came home and found several misguided youths trying to break into their house they got the sob’s to leave but he got pucnched and kicked several times in the process, it’s time to defend yourself…he btw is has a carry permit now.

Al

I’ve been reading all responses here and have been holding off posting, but I think its time. I do have my CC and I personally think the guy did a good thing. I wish the best for him and hope he is charged with nothing. That being said I would not have done the same thing. I don’t think he is going to get away without charges. If I was in his shoes and came cross a person being beaten like reports say the woman was, I would put a stop to it. If that meant using my firearm then that’s what I would do. You have a better chance at no charges if you stop the act in progress. Giving chase I think takes it all to a whole different level. One that I don’t want to take anything to. If the D-bag ran I would stay with the victim and do my best to give all the info I could to police and hope they find the person. This is my personal opinion and what I would do based on what I’ve read. I wasn’t there and don’t know all the details. It’s easy for me to say what I would do sitting in my Lazy Boy but you never know what you truly would do until your in that situation. Good Luck Good Samaritan I wish you the best.

I agree with Allan.
It’s not that the decisions are easy.
But, it’s gone too far and we can’t put a cop on every corner 24/7.
WE are our own best defense.
The more education you can get (CC courses), the better off you are.
I know that i won’t be waiting if i have problems.

This is how I would “hope” I would act in the situation also, but like you said, when your there, who knows what you would do (that’s what scares me about carrying myself) I do hope he does not get charged and that he did act accordingly, but if he didn’t, well he has to face the music.

On another note, it seems there are alot of people with no tolerance, thugs deserve to die mentality folks posting on this… until you put yourself in the shoes of the person taking a life, well, you really don’t know what your actually talking about, I would guess. I often thought it would be cool to live back in the days of the Wild West… then again, I would have been shot by now…

BTW, giving chase, puts you on the offense…

Not sure if what this guy did was the smartest. But I’m glad he killed the guy and maybe it will make other scum think about it.

I am not throwing this out there for any argument. But this is how the Self Defense law reads in MN:

Minnesota Self Defense: Know your Rights!

In the state of Minnesota you have the right to defend yourself. If you have been charged with assault, or even murder, but it was in self defense, you can be found not guilty if you meet certain factors. Generally, in Minnesota you can use force to defend yourself, your home, or others, but the degree of force which may be used depends upon the circumstances. In order to claim self defense, you cannot have been the aggressor, you must have a reasonable belief that there is actual and immediate danger of death or great bodily harm, or a felony crime, and the actions you take to defend yourself must appear necessary.

Furthermore, it is important to know that the state of Minnesota has a “duty to retreat” in its self defense laws. This means that if you are faced with a threat of danger you must first attempt to retreat. Only when you are unable to retreat or otherwise avoid the danger can you use reasonable force to defend yourself. To claim self defense, you must use only reasonable force and you must have a reasonable belief of danger. This test for reasonableness is not based on what might have happened, but what actually did happen.

One question.

Is a purse of such high value that ANYONE should die for it?

Take my wallet, take my fishing poles ect all can be replace by insurance. Threaten my life or my families and there’s only two out comes.

You live, I die.
or
I live you die.

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One question.

Is a purse of such high value that ANYONE should die for it?

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Crook or Victim? Major difference.

I put myself in this situation… and I think two ways.

First… all is normal in my life… would I chase after this guy? Probably not. I would probably pull my S&W to defend any further harm to any innocents.

Next… What if my mother… or my wife… or my daughter… or others close to me had this same thing happen to them the other day… or last week… I have that fresh in my mind… and I see myself chasing after them with hollow points leading the way.

What we don’t know about this guy is, did something similar/same happen recently? Was this the straw that broke the camel’s back? Or is he really a vigilante that some may make him out to be? If something happened to me personally where someone I love was also a victim… and Law Enforcement was not around or couldn’t take care of it, I would be much quicker to take the law into my own hands.

Kudos to this guy. Regardless of Law.. this is a Right Vs Wrong issue and this guy did right. I hope all the best for him.

I see it this way. A guy eighter sees an older woman what looks like getting beat or what looks like somesort of bad situation. He goes to where the woman is and sees shes bleeding and he asks what happened and she says he beat me with something and he took my purse, did she know it was a gun she was getting beat with or something else, no doubt she was dazed. The guy maybe doesen’t know the robber has a gun yet and goes after the guy for the ladys purse. In the pursuit the robber pulls his gun and starts shooting. The good guy pulls his and fires back at the moron. A few shots are fired and the good guy lands one and probably let the scumbag lay there and maybe holds the woman, his partner, until the police get there. The guy eigther was or wasen’t told by the lady that it was a gun he beat her with. The good guy eigther chased the bad guy knowing he had a gun or he didn’t know. Eigther way he went after the guy not knowing if the guy was going to shoot at him, drop her purse and keep running or what. At this time he still had the right to get the ladys purse back for her and to get a discription of the robbers, that decesion was up to him.

Maybe the guy knowing he had some protection just wanted a good discription of both of them and hopeing that maybe he would drop her purse. In eigther possibility he has gonads the size of a gorillas. Maybe hes an ex serviceman thats been through a few bad situations and this guy didn’t scare him. Maybe he didn’t give a darn if the guy shot at him because maybe he was prepared in case he did. I don’t think the guy did anything wrong. He maybe had stopped the beating, he did chase the guy for whatever reason and he did get her purse back, hooray! The way it ended up the guy had the complete right to do what he did chasing the guy. The only wrong judgment would be just to put a bullet in him because he didn’t like what he did. Theres alot of other reasons that stand out why he did what he did but I’m glad he shot the SOB because now watch the armed robberys slow down or stop for awhile.

I might be wrong but after the robber pistol whipped the woman and he gave chase, not completely knowing the robber had a gun or not, the one bad thing the robber did was to pull a gun on this good guy. Using his head and his talent he dropped the guy like he should have done. I still think the guy did the right thing as theres one less armed and dangerous robber around now, who beats women and forcefully steals what people work for. The only thing the good guy has going against him is if he wanted to give chase just to put a bullet in him, which I doubt happened with all of the other possible reasons. Who really cares is the way I feel. If someone pistol whipps someone especially an older lady, steals her purse, then runs and shoots at another guy when hes running, hell ya thats reason enough to fill the guy full of lead. If the robber wouldn’t have had a gun and wasen’t shooting at the good guy then it would be a completely diffrent situation, but the dumbass has a gun and shot first, so the good guy shot back to protect himself. I don’t think it matters if the good guy knew the robber had a gun, he still had the right to go after him. I think he felt safer knowing he had protection. I think the good guy did the right thing in protecting himself, he’d be kind of stupid if he didn’t.

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and just to clear things up, Minnesota does not have a conceal and carry law. We have a “Permit to Carry”. which allows us to carry a firearm (pistol or long gun) open or concealed.

Just an FYI is all.

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Not exactly. We have a,(a direct quote from the permit), “State of Minnesota Permit to Carry a Pistol” . It allows us to carry a handgun either concealed or not.

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and just to clear things up, Minnesota does not have a conceal and carry law. We have a “Permit to Carry”. which allows us to carry a firearm (pistol or long gun) open or concealed.

Just an FYI is all.

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Not exactly. We have a,(a direct quote from the permit), “State of Minnesota Permit to Carry a Pistol” . It allows us to carry a handgun either concealed or not.

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You may want to take a CC class before you speak about it. If you did take a class you may want to take a refresher.
The carry of long guns in public is permitted if you have the permit to carry a pistol. However only handguns are permitted loaded and uncased when transporting in any motor vehicle if you have a permit to carry. Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean is should be done in my opinion.

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and just to clear things up, Minnesota does not have a conceal and carry law. We have a “Permit to Carry”. which allows us to carry a firearm (pistol or long gun) open or concealed.

Just an FYI is all.

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Not exactly. We have a,(a direct quote from the permit), “State of Minnesota Permit to Carry a Pistol” . It allows us to carry a handgun either concealed or not.

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Read up on the regs again…

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and just to clear things up, Minnesota does not have a conceal and carry law. We have a “Permit to Carry”. which allows us to carry a firearm (pistol or long gun) open or concealed.

Just an FYI is all.

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Not exactly. We have a,(a direct quote from the permit), “State of Minnesota Permit to Carry a Pistol” . It allows us to carry a handgun either concealed or not.

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Minnesota Concealed Carry CCW Laws and Information

Right-To-Carry Law Type: Shall Issue. This state is not a conceal and carry state. With a legal permit one can carry in the open in legal areas of carry. Minnesota State Statute 624.714 allows qualified individuals to obtain a permit to carry a pistol in the state. Permits are issued by all county sheriffs in Minnesota.

Must be at least 21 years of age
Must complete an application form
Must not be prohibited from possessing a firearm under Minnesota Statute 624.714
Must not be listed in the criminal gang investigation system
Must be a resident of the county from which you are requesting a permit, if you reside in Minnesota. Non-residents may apply to any Minnesota county sheriff.
Must provide certificate of completed authorized firearms training. Training by a certified instructor and completed within one year of an original or renewal application. (624.714, Subd. 2a)