Permit holder involved in fatal shooting

Who cares??? Another bad guy gets the deep six. Just weeding out the shallow end of the gene pool.

DrDeath-
I think you are missing the point. we aren’t worried about the bad guy. we’re worried that we’ll have to shell out $50 to the legal defense fund OF THE GOOD GUY…

the right to carry is no right to chase down some one and kill them!!!!! Shoot to kill if you or some one is in a life threatning situation. This guys in a world of trouble & should be.

lhprop, wade, doctorD, and Stu
please report for jury duty

Wait a minute. The way i see this, the fellow was attempting to exercise a citizen’s arrest, when the pistol whipping felon resisted and fired on him.

I believe he has a right to fire back.

One should note that the Mpls police did NOT detain him…

from the Strib:

“Andrew Rothman, a Twin Cities firearms trainer and vice president of the Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, said Friday afternoon that if the events unfolded as the armed citizen described, “the permit holder acted appropriately. Chasing the mugger to recover the purse or to effect a citizen’s arrest is permitted by law.”

And, Rothman continued, if the suspect “then escalated by pointing and/or shooting at the good Samaritan, the good Samaritan would have been completely justified in shooting.””

While he may not have had the right to chase down this a$$hole, and may be in trouble for doing so.

I remember when my grandmother at age 67 was beaten by two tough guys with baseball bats for her purse, and the $37 they got.

No…he may not have had the right, but he has my blessing.

Put my name on the jury list too please.

Al

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The way i see this, the fellow was attempting to exercise a citizen’s arrest, when the pistol whipping felon resisted and fired on him.

I believe he has a right to fire back.

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The wisdom evidenced in your ability to analyze the situation demonstrates your consummate qualifications as a potential jury member.

I haven’t missed the point. I do truly hope that all works out in a most positive way for the shooter. Of course that needs to be our focus. I realize that good doesn’t always trump government. We will keep our fingers crossed. Didn’t mean to give the wrong impression.

I’d like to see some punk try this kind of a stunt with either one of my grandmothers.

They both grew up as homesteaders on the plains of Montana and it would most likely be too late for the perp by the time some bystander came to the rescue.

One of my grandmas carried a hoe while she walked to school; to kill any rattlesnakes she came accross along the way (when the weather was warm enough to make it necessary).

She also tells of going blueberry picking in the fall with her mother who would chase bears from the berry patch with nothing more than a stick in her hand.

My other grandmother, at age 90, would sit hidden in the tree row at the edge of her garden at sundown with a Winchester 30-30 … to protect her crops from incoming deer and raccoons.

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Got one thing right. Dead crimnals can’t testify against you!

Nice shot.

-J.

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True – but their families can sue you and win unfortunately.

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the right to carry is no right to chase down some one and kill them!!!!! Shoot to kill if you or some one is in a life threatning situation. This guys in a world of trouble & should be.

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My interpretation of pistol whipping any person, let alone an older woman, equates to life threatening.

[quote My interpretation of pistol whipping any person, let alone an older woman, equates to life threatening.

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True… unfortunately, this guy chased the perp and then shot him. Life threatening ended when the chase began. Not saying it’s right…. just saying….
My problem is this: if your daughter happened to be exiting that resturant at that particular time and was shot and killed in the cross fire of the gun fight, who ever fired the fatal shot, whose to blame? The perp, or the Samaratin that pursued him and forced the issue? I hold them equally responsible. Had the Samaratin not pursued, My daughter would still be alive.

Nah,your daughter would still be dead, the perp, who had not been stopped, woulda done her…

AND if your daughter was taking Aikido, like my 7yo daughter, the perp would have been fearing for HIS life…

Let’s remember, the perp would still be alive if he’d not resisted arrest…

my point is, there are innocent bystanders that are placed in danger by getting into a gun fight with a perp that is being pursued. Yes, the perp is still out there, but my daughter didn’t die because someone trying to do good went beyond their training and played cops and robbers with real bullets. protect yourself and your family from an immediate threat but leave the the rest to the trained professionals (cops). You put yourself and others at too much risk trying to play vigilante.

Sorry but that is a what if game. What if this crook decided not pistol whip a woman?

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Sorry but that is a what if game. What if this crook decided not pistol whip a woman?

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Sorry Labman. I’m with Kooty.

What if we all choose to do nothing? We need more people willing to step in like the guy in the article. We all know more times than not the cops are no where to be found and to slow to respond.

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AND if your daughter was taking Aikido, like my 7yo daughter, the perp would have been fearing for HIS life…

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Your daughter wear those wonder woman bracelets?

Even though I agree it was a good ending, the point he is making is that you can’t have people going Clint Eastwood all over the place. Now I wasn’t in his shoes, so I am not going to say he was wrong or fault him for anything, however after the emotions settle, he did make a mistake pursuing the perp.

i say that when the cops ain’t around, we better be able to take care of ourselves.

i was attacked when i was in peru. 4 months earlier i’d been given a few self defense lessons by the marine guard at the embassy. they saved my life. the perp who thought i was an easy mark, well, let’s say he wasn’t too worried about it either way. i will be eternally grateful to that marine guard. no cops to call that day…

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AND if your daughter was taking Aikido, like my 7yo daughter, the perp would have been fearing for HIS life…

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Your daughter wear those wonder woman bracelets?

Even though I agree it was a good ending, the point he is making is that you can’t have people going Clint Eastwood all over the place. Now I wasn’t in his shoes, so I am not going to say he was wrong or fault him for anything, however after the emotions settle, he did make a mistake pursuing the perp.

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Yep! Thats my point!

I would venture a guess that if we had a few more good samaritans running around we would see a different direction in the crime rates in our cities.

Well said!! I’m taking concealed carry certification this weekend and there is a lot of stuff to digest, even for an ex cop. We can beat the what if horse to death, but Hoo-ray for the good guys who still believe in life, liberty, & the pursuit of bad guys!!! If one old gal is alive, it’s all worth it.

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I would venture a guess that if we had a few more good samaritans running around we would see a different direction in the crime rates in our cities.

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I could not agree more –

I like to see the bad guys end up where they belong. No trial, no “what if’s” , no revisionist history. I was naughty – now I am gone. Life is too short to have some guy think he can go around pistol whipping older women.

Imagine if this guy was allowed to breed. Sometimes a little old fashioned darwinism – “thinning of the herd” is not a bad thing.

I like that we are now starting to get to a place where a person has to think about their actions – wave a gun around and it might be your last day on earth. We have seen a few of these “erasures” over the past 30 days.

I have a hunch the world might be a better place with these eradications.

Dog

“A man was fatally shot Thursday night in south Minneapolis in what may have been a case of self-defense by another man who interrupted a robbery, police said.”

This is the part that worries me. Somebody is going to make the argument that Mr. Pistolwhipper was killed trying to defend himself from the evil CC guy. My prediction is that the CC guy is going to end up in some sort of trouble and lose his permit for pursuing the guy. My hope is that nobody makes any kind of an effort to represent Mr. Pistolwhipper’s family.

dd

I got a hunch that if this goes to trial and the cc holders lawyer tells the jury where it happened and what exactly happened the guy has nothing to worry about even if the DA persues charges.

A guy is stopped from pistol whipping a defenseless woman in her sixties and flees the site with the ladys purse. A bystander sees him flee with her purse and goes after him. The robber pulls his gun and fires at the man chasing him. Surprise surprise, the chasing good surmaritan has a pistol as protection and pulls his weapon and fires back. Shots are fired back and forth, shows intent by the robber, and the good surmaritan lands one dropping the guy. Not only that but his robbing partner, the intent to rob lady, is involved too, how does he know this lady doesn’t have a gun too. I don’t think theres a jury in the world that would convict this guy of any wrong doing because he probably pulled his pistol after the robber shot at him. The good surmaritan just wanted the ladys purse back and too probably detain the robber, which he can legally do. It isn’t this good sumaritans fault the robber had a gun and pulled it. He had to fire back in order to protect himself, wheather he decided he still wanted the ladys purse back or to make a citizens arrest. It wasen’t the surmaritans fault he had enough protection. I sure wish I was on the jury, my thoughts are its too bad he didn’t fill the guy full of lead,,,and I think the jury will think the same. Remember when the jury hears that this lady in her 60’s was being pistol whipped the jury will put themselves in her place. They know they can override any thoughts of the DA. Was the good surmaritan wrong in giving chase,,,hell no. He can do what he wants and its not his fault he had protection eigther. I can’t see anybody saying this guy was doing wrong, infact the jury will probably think and say they wish there was more like him. I don’t think they will convict the guy because they will put themselves in the ladys place and anyone with morals will see this is what happens to someone that pistol whips a woman in her 60’s and then pulls a gun.

Whose responsibility would it be to charge the guy? I am guessing the DA and they base it off of an investigation talking to witnesses and reading the police/detectives reports?

I hope it is a good sign that the term “Good Samaritan” has been bandied about by the police.

The DA better be very careful with this one. We all know DAs like to start political careers over hotly contested cases. From what I have been reading online comments, there probably would be a big uproar if charges did come against him.

Your right Pug, beings its in an area in the cities where everybody knows theres alot of crime, it would be political suicide to go after this (good guy), which in this case he is and alot of people see him that way. One dead dangerous criminal gone is what thier thinking, try to change thier minds, I don’t think so.

Another thing is that the public is probably going to think that this isn’t this guys first robbery. The first time robbing and beating a lady with a gun is pretty brazen for a robbers first time don’t ya think, Id bet the public is saying the same too. Good riddens!!!

Ya know something else too Pug, is that now people can see the importance of holding a permit for selfdefense and someone elses protection. Beings this is a very hot topic I wonder how many voters are going to file for a permit to carry seeing the results that can happen. I know that theres always people with marginal judgement that will file and maybe be allowed to carry, and make a wrong judgement (but) what good deeds will it allow with more voteing public that will now be carrying. Even if its only a few the DA will eventually find this out, conceal and carry is just getting off the ground and flying and the DA will figure it out. You rob somebody and show a gun and you might and probably will end up dead is what the public wants to show to fend off crime. Thats hard to reason and vote against.

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Ya know something else too Pug, is that now people can see the importance of holding a permit for selfdefense and someone elses protection. Beings this is a very hot topic I wonder how many voters are going to file for a permit to carry seeing the results that can happen. I know that theres always people with marginal judgement that will file and maybe be allowed to carry, and make a wrong judgement (but) what good deeds will it allow with more voteing public that will now be carrying. Even if its only a few the DA will eventually find this out, conceal and carry is just getting off the ground and flying and the DA will figure it out. You rob somebody and show a gun and you might and probably will end up dead is what the public wants to show to fend off crime. Thats hard to reason and vote against.

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Being 56 years old I might have a different perspective. I have seen 100’s if not 1000’s of people who would have no business being anywhere near a gun. I’m not against people having permits, I just want the testing to be very hard to get one. Seems people think “it’s their right” every time sometime new comes along. The permit can never be taken for granted like a drivers license is in my opinion.

I agree and I’m also older, I’m 60, isn’t it the instructors decesion on who gets a permit and who dosen’t. I think I seen a tv show within the last couple years where its the instructors decesion on who to issue a permit too, its thier final screening and sayso on who gets a permit and who dosen’t, and thats the way it should be. I also know that these instructors have a very keen eye to notice certain judgement calls, they are trained that way and I know it is hard to get a permit and you have to pass certain criteria. Maybe some of the more knowleagble guys on this can chime in here and say what they know about the instructors being a final decesion.

Thats another thing that the DA would have to try to do. All the defense would have to do is put the instructor in the chair and tell what his crteria is on who passes and who doesn’t. It would be pretty hard to convince a jury that the instructors decesions were wrong and beings instructors have a keen eye to notice certain criteria points in the direction that the good surmaritan probably made the right judgements. Heres another thing to think about. Beings this is the first time permits have been issued in Minnesota I’d say its a pretty sure bet that the instructor had a keener eye on who passes and who doesen’t. hes more then likely a person knowing he had to make a 100% clearing call because it is the first time permits were issued. At a time like this he knows he has to be right, which only shows me the surmaratine made the right judgemnt calls when chasing the robber.