No license means no fishing, says Minnesota DNR

  • jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #1273037

    Looks like they changed thier position on the topic. Story from todays Strib:

    http://www.startribune.com/local/125493163.html

    Anglers fishing Minnesota waters without a fishing license are violating the law and face possible citations, state officials said Wednesday.

    It doesn’t matter that resident and nonresident anglers can’t buy licenses because of the state government shutdown.

    “It’s black and white — you must have a license to fish,” said Tom Landwehr, Department of Natural Resources commissioner.

    Some resort owners — desperate to retain customers — have been collecting license money from their nonresident guests and giving them receipts to carry in lieu of a fishing license, saying they will buy licenses for them after the shutdown ends.

    That’s no good, Landwehr said. “You can’t have an IOU or say ‘I intended to get a license,'” he said. “You must have a fishing license in your possession while you are fishing.”

    Violators risk a fine and court costs of about $150.

    The DNR explained its position Wednesday after seeing the reports of resort owners issuing temporary fishing licenses, and after the Crow Wing County Board passed a resolution Tuesday seeking clarification.

    Commissioners in that north- central Minnesota county expressed concern that resorts would suffer financially if customers can’t buy fishing licenses. County Board Chairman Paul Thiede wanted the DNR to temporarily allow nonresidents to fish the Brainerd Lakes area without a license, if they agreed to buy one after the shutdown ended.

    But Landwehr said not enforcing the law isn’t an option.

    “The bottom line is state law says you must have a license,” he said.

    The state’s conservation officers still have discretion whether to issue citations or warnings, said Jim Konrad, DNR enforcement chief. But Konrad said Wednesday that the shutdown is no excuse to fish without a license.

    “We certainly are writing some citations for fishing without licenses,” he said. “And we’re telling people they can’t fish if they don’t have one.”

    The state’s 180 conservation officers have been pressed to do other tasks during the shutdown, and they are spending far less time enforcing game and fish laws. But they still are enforcing those laws, Konrad said.

    Landwehr agreed his officers have discretion but said in this case the issue seems clear-cut.

    “I expect when an officer finds a flagrant violation that they will issue a citation,” he said. “This is a very simple thing: If you fish without a license, you’re blatantly violating the law.”

    Meanwhile, fishing guide Tom Neustrom of Grand Rapids, a retired deputy sheriff, said the inability of anglers to buy licenses is hurting guides, resorts and other businesses. He’s been guiding unlicensed clients and will continue to do so.

    “We’re telling them to come,” he said. “This is our livelihood. What are we supposed to do?”

    He tells his clients to bring enough cash to pay for a license and plans to explain that to conservation officers. He hasn’t encountered any officers yet.

    “It’s a bad mess,” Neustrom said.

    ======================================
    -J.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #980664

    Quote:


    He’s been guiding unlicensed clients and will continue to do so.


    Well, it’s not the first time this “hall of famer” followed his own laws.

    SLACK
    HASTINGS, MN
    Posts: 711
    #980668

    200 and some years ago a group of peaple didn’t like the way they were being governed. they had the COURAGE to do some thing about it and to day we hail them as our fore fothers, we put them on our money, we celibrate there birth days. don’t be so quick to judge.

    P.S. no that was not differant

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #980673

    I/we could use that line with every law made both federal, state and local.

    It’s the start of a revolution!

    docfrigo
    Wisconsin
    Posts: 1564
    #980679

    Unfortunately, the law is the law. It’s hurting a lot of folks, think this anger should be directed in the correct direction–just like speeding, if he wants to guide unlicensed customers, he’s taking that chance–

    desperado
    Posts: 3010
    #980686

    350 years ago Sir Edmund Burke was considered as the “father of conservatism” . Amazing how so many of his words ring true today.
    Whenever a separation is made between liberty and justice, neither is safe. For people crushed by law have no hopes but from revolt; if the laws become their enemies, they will be enemies to the laws. There is thus, a limit at which compliance ceases to be a virtue and all that is necessary for for tyranny to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

    arklite881south
    Posts: 5660
    #980689

    Take the ticket and take it to court all day long. For $150.00 I would gladly take that to task. Mr. OFFICER……HOW would you suggest my customer can follow the law in which your enforcing?? My client is a law abiding citizen of the United States and wants to comply? LET the judge or officer answer that question. I am VERY curious to listen in to that response. Many out of state anglers have put deposits on trips through resorts in which are often non-refundable. Frankly out of state anglers could care less about what is taking place in Minnesota’s inadequate state government, and moreover DID NOT follow our soap opera cast of bad actors. Many of these deposits are indeed costing the customer or resort. If it cost the resort of course it cost the state in tax revenue……..Again………Who cares right?? We’re loaded and surely don’t need any more Tax $$. Does the state DNR really have NO CLUE or simply not care?? Are these visitors to our state supposed to eat that loss?? Be careful Minnesota take a look at the lines that USED to be crossing our border here in IFALLS?? They are NON-EXISTENT now, and many believe the non-refundable deposits that cost anglers when the couldn’t fulfill the trip is the culprit which staggers the tourism industry currently in Canada. YES I realize there is a certain disconnect between the DNR and the tourism side of the fishing industry, but maybe JUST MAYBE act like your care for your fellow man in this economy. Our local state tourism industry desperately needs the few summer months business to keep the lights on in many reaches of our state. Many resorts and fishing guides earn 70-100 percent of their annual revenue in a short 4 month window. Beyond that many many trips are not taking place for those who did not have the luxury of planning trips months in advance. They simply have bowed out since our license issue, and this statement by the head of DNR is disgusting. Northern Minnesota lives and dies with tourism. I would love to see this taken to court, and I can’t believe the ridiculous stance the DNR head takes on this despite everyones efforts to try comply with the law. One might suggest the state of Minnesota is walking a slippery slope right now. You’ve willingly cost business owners a lot of $$ right now and I wouldn’t be suprised at all if action takes place in the court system in an attempt to recover some of the loss. Beyond that you continue to cost the entire state of Minnesota ridiculous amounts of lost tax revenue we DESPERATELY need. Really!! HERE IS YOUR $$ in which HONEST fisherman,resort owners, and fishing guides are willing………… to DO YOUR JOB collecting……….. FOR YOU to purchase the license until our worthless state government can figure……….. something out. I am however glad they took time over the 4th of July to rest and relax with friends and family regardless of whether their job was done or they’ve put the entire state of Minnesota in a bind. WHO CARES…..VACATION TIME KIDS!! STILL the stance of the DNR is “NO FISHING WITHOUT A LICENSE” and scare tactics so people can’t enjoy a simple day fishing on the lake becuase our officials can’t work out a budget?? For some ODD reason I for one thought commonsense might have squirmed it’s through this mess to the head of our DNR. BTW Minnesota’s DNR is funded by license sales…………..AND TICKET revenues from fines handed out?? I guess many feel this should be glaringly obvious to reasonably intelligent people there is more money in penalizing the honest than collecting license fees from them. There is little question license sales were WAY WAY down to start the season. Anybody remember that?? In some estimates fishing license revenues were off 33%!! Hey I’m not running the DNR, but if my business was in the tank and we were forced to make tough cuts…….. I’d likely be a bit wiser trying to work my way out. Now there will be no license revenue for who knows how long?? Yes the state has put them in a bind. Now deal with it. Act like you have some financial understanding or passed your high school economics course and fix the MONEY leak. We quite obviously have the worlds worst business men and women on the clock……….Paid by tax revenues in all facets of our leadership while honest Americans flip the bill. Anybody remember that commercial through a temp. Job service. “Don’t worry Guys…..WE’VE GOT BOB to take care of your job!!” I hate to say it, but Minnesota’s future does NOT look to bright while we’ve willingly flipped off the switch.

    walleyeben
    Albertville,MN
    Posts: 963
    #980690

    Simply ridiculous, cut and dried black and white the state SUCKS. Tom Landwehr can take that to the bank when he cashes his check! Can some one explain why people shouldnt go fish?? Last I checked they were the poeples fish not the states. SO they are turning down/away how many millions in possible income to resort and local commuinties?? Id be pissed If I was a guide. At what point are some of these people going to remove their heads from each others poop shoot! They are fricken fish!! Bottem line is if your not open to sell the license its your problem, not the problem of millions of people just looking to have some good old AMERICAN fun! Pretty sure that plenty of men and women who have laid their lives down for this nations freedoms would be quite pissed right now. Sorry for the rand but crying out effin loud people wake up!

    walleyeben
    Albertville,MN
    Posts: 963
    #980693

    Granrud for govener…kinda catchy Well put Pal this is getting way out of hand!!!!!!

    timmy
    Posts: 1960
    #980694

    Well said Chris.

    This is just one more glaring example of why I repeatedly refer to our gov’t and our DNR as useless. Sure there are good eggs in the bunch, but as a whole, the entire operation is a clueless, useless trainwreck IMHO. I, for one, am not even remotely surprised that common sense is not a factor in this entire mess. In fact, I would be surprised if the DNR took a different stance. Kudos to the CO’s that use a touch of rationality and simply warn (or overlook) fishing without a license, as they are the only ones that are approaching this boondoggle with any sense of reason.

    T

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #980696

    I can not disagree with any of the common sense points you’ve made Chris and I feel your frustration! The pressure should be put on the DNR to change their stance…if we could find their phone number or email addresses.

    Maybe a call to your local CO by the Chamber of Commerce, Mayors, all the guides and resort owners is in order?

    I really do wish I could pick and chose which of our 10,000 laws I wanted to follow. There’s bait restriction, number of line restrictions, where I can fish restrictions ect ect…but I follow them and go through he11 trying to get them changed.

    It would be so much easier just to state in a newpaper interview “I’m above the law”.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #980697

    Chris, you got me thinking.

    Section 12, article 13 of the state constitution reads as follows:

    “Hunting and fishing and the taking of game and fish are a valued part of our heritage that shall be forever preserved for the people and shall be managed by law and regulation for the public good.”

    It would appear that the state has a constitutional mandate to provide the opportunity to buy a license and comply with the law. At least for citizens of this state.

    -J.

    Pig-hunter
    Southern Minnesota
    Posts: 600
    #980699

    I agree with Chris and Tom Neustrom here 100%. I would tell them to come and fish with our without a liscense. As long as they are/were willing to buy one, that is all you can ask.
    The head DNR dopeshot saying what he just did illustrates how common sense is rarely if ever used in government.

    How do you expect people that rely almost completely on revenues tied to fishing during the summer to be able to make it if you don’t allow their customers to fish?

    Keep doin what you’re doin. And Brian, I don’t know what you have against Tom Neustrom. He is as good of a guy as you will meet.

    suzuki
    Woodbury, Mn
    Posts: 18621
    #980700

    If this thing goes to fall things are going to be crazy. Luckily I bought a sportsmans license so I can hunt small game but other hunters and deer hunters would freak! I cant even imagine.

    desperado
    Posts: 3010
    #980702

    This is not a case of any of us being above the law.
    This is a case of the law has now become beneath us.

    timmy
    Posts: 1960
    #980703

    Quote:


    I really do wish I could pick and chose which of our 10,000 laws I wanted to follow. There’s bait restriction, number of line restrictions, where I can fish restrictions ect ect…but I follow them and go through he11 trying to get them changed.

    It would be so much easier just to state in a newpaper interview “I’m above the law”.


    I agree with following the law and trying to change it….but having a law and then changing the playing field so that the law is IMPOSSIBLE to comply with is a different deal. There never was stipulation that licenses had to be bought at a certain time in order to fish. People from outstate had no reasonable warning that their trips and plans could be in jeopardy. In-state residents that had not planned on fishing had no reason to buy a license ahead of time, either. Following a law we disagree with is the right thing to do, but not being allowed to follow it is an entirely different matter.

    T

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #980706

    Quote:


    And Brian, I don’t know what you have against Tom Neustrom. He is as good of a guy as you will meet.


    I didn’t say he was a bad guy. Just that this isn’t the first time he’s followed his own laws.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go shoot an eagle that’s making too much noise for my liking.

    desperado
    Posts: 3010
    #980708

    Enjoy that Eagle breast

    Hint: it tastes best stuffed with Loon-liver pate’ then slow-roasted in Musky Sauce

    Mike Stephens
    WI.
    Posts: 1722
    #980709

    Quote:


    Quote:


    And Brian, I don’t know what you have against Tom Neustrom. He is as good of a guy as you will meet.


    I didn’t say he was a bad guy. Just that this isn’t the first time he’s followed his own laws.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go shoot an eagle that’s making too much noise for my liking.


    I heard they taste alot like musky cheeks.

    arklite881south
    Posts: 5660
    #980711

    Quote:


    If this thing goes to fall things are going to be crazy. Luckily I bought a sportsmans license so I can hunt small game but other hunters and deer hunters would freak! I cant even imagine.


    PRECISELY!! The stance Minnesotas DNR has taken in this tough situation has banned both honest sportsmen and women the right to hunt and fish legally. This is a blatant error in judgement,and should wake up Minnesota outdoorsman who want any right to fish or hunt. If you keep anglers off the lake you need to keep hunters out of the woods. Yes keep me from heading to Deer Camp and you’ve got a injured TIGER on your hands.

    As to BK’s point this has nothing to do with picking and choosing which of Minnesota’s 10000 laws we choose to abide by. Anyone who has followed me in the past clearly knows I’ve supported draining wells at the landings regardless of whether it is a pain or not despite strong opposition from many anglers. We follow slot restrictions to the tee while we preserve this unbelievable fishery. I keep a close eye out for anglers purposely breaking fish and game laws with my countless hours on the lake. As a licensed fishing guide we continue to be held to a higher standard while on the water. I’m literally licensed to run a ship on the great lakes just to be a fishing guide. I have a TWIC card to enter unsecured ports even though there aren’t any on Rainy Lake. I do this willingly to FOLLOW THE LAW and do so with pride!! There is simply NO way to comply with the LAW in this situation, and I feel that comment is simply far off base coupling that with a willingness to pick and choose whether one follows a certain law or not.

    The State of Minnesota along with the head of the Department of Natural Resources has thrown the Minnesota fishing industry under the bus WILLINGLY. Damage has already been done and the severity worsens DAILY. Expect anger and frustration to grow as commonsense clashes with our local ELECTED government.

    As a sidebar. I DO NOT want to group the entire base of CO’s in on this mess. It still is my belief there are exceptions with many local CO’s dealing with this with commonsense. Still this must be a mess when leadership doesn’t LEAD properly and throws a knuckle curveball local CO’s need to try manage effectively.

    farmboy1
    Mantorville, MN
    Posts: 3668
    #980715

    Quote:


    If this thing goes to fall things are going to be crazy. Luckily I bought a sportsmans license so I can hunt small game but other hunters and deer hunters would freak! I cant even imagine.


    I was drawn for a once in a lifetime moose hunt. I am scared poo-less that I won’t be able to get the license.

    If I did not have my sportsmen s license already, I would have no problems going out without it. The DNR Agents I know can all use discretion when writing tickets. I would take it to court all day long for a chance to have my say.

    I feel for the guides and resorts who have a hard time making a buck in good times.

    Granrude for governor

    carnivore
    Dubuque, Iowa
    Posts: 434
    #980718

    What happened to the good old days when every resort, tackle & bait shop, drug store, hardware store etc. had a pad of licence forms with carbon copies. Technology is great until support for it goes to hell. Too bad there was no backup plan.

    Trev
    Battle Lake, MN
    Posts: 965
    #980721

    Quote:


    What happened to the good old days when every resort, tackle & bait shop, drug store, hardware store etc. had a pad of licence forms with carbon copies. Technology is great until support for it goes to hell. Too bad there was no backup plan.


    Funny you mention this – I just had someone call and ask me the very same thing….sometimes simple is better.

    Maybe it’s just an ‘off’ year, but there are way fewer boats on the water the last couple weeks. Beautiful evening last night and on 14,000 acres of OT, i counted 2 boats, both of which were from my resort.

    phigs
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts: 1046
    #980724

    the right to hunt and fish in this state is a constitutional right. they cannot just revoke it on a whim!

    if an officer stops you, ask him if he was sworn into power, by agreeing to honor and uphold the constitution. and then send him on his way…

    desperado
    Posts: 3010
    #980725

    I submit that when a law is enforced but the mechanism by which we are able to comply is denied to us, then that law has become tyrannical and opressive.
    So, is open defiance of tyrannical and opressive law the act of scofflaws or patriots?

    phigs
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts: 1046
    #980726

    Quote:


    I really do wish I could pick and chose which of our 10,000 laws I wanted to follow. There’s bait restriction, number of line restrictions, where I can fish restrictions ect ect…but I follow them and go through he11 trying to get them changed.


    you fish at night, when johnny law is nowhere near the water….

    have at it!

    desperado
    Posts: 3010
    #980727

    The likes of Tom Neustrom and Steve Fellegy are modern day American patriots

    arklite881south
    Posts: 5660
    #980728

    Quote:


    Quote:


    If this thing goes to fall things are going to be crazy. Luckily I bought a sportsmans license so I can hunt small game but other hunters and deer hunters would freak! I cant even imagine.


    I was drawn for a once in a lifetime moose hunt. I am scared poo-less that I won’t be able to get the license.

    If I did not have my sportsmen s license already, I would have no problems going out without it. The DNR Agents I know can all use discretion when writing tickets. I would take it to court all day long for a chance to have my say.

    I feel for the guides and resorts who have a hard time making a buck in good times.

    Granrude for governor


    Why wouldn’t the our State DNR screw on their misplaced “Marketing Head” and spin this mess into a positive. The State of Minnesota is BLESSED with 10000 lakes teaming with trophy caliber fish. The state could easily capitalize on this natural wonder much more efficiently. Why not go out of your way to make a public statement that we want the general public to hunt and fish!! Get out there and ENJOY IT!! Attention is currently focused on this matter………Capitalize on it instead of dig yourself a deeper hole. You’ve been given the spotlight and this is what you have to say?? Ugggggghhh I’ll do it for you!! Please FISHERMAN visit our fisheries this summer!! You’ll be very happy you did. Seems so simple yet so foreign to some?? With a simple Marketing degree, and every year of my life spent promoting I can’t help to feel sick to my stomache when yet another missed opportunity side steps our state leaders throwing “Spitballs in the Halls”.

    walleyeben
    Albertville,MN
    Posts: 963
    #980729

    I agree Chris, the C.O’s are put in a hard position.You know they are thinking the same things we are!

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