Mille Lacs Slot

It sounds like the slot will be 18″ to 28″. A very small chance of it being 17″ to 28″ and basically no chance of 20″ to 28″.

fine with me. consistency sure is nice.

I’m so bummed I couldn’t make it to the meeting. My wife was out of town and didn’t figure I should show up with the clan of curtain crawlers.

I really would like to hear “why” the DNR wouldn’t attempt to increase the harvest this year. These are assumptions on my part, hence seeing some info from the DNR would be helpful in forming an opinion.

1. Last year’s harvest fell several 100,000’s lbs short.
2. The lake can sustain XXX,XXX lbs of predator biomass, what is that?? All species considered during an average spawn success.
3. Huge assumption, the lake now has all the last year’s unharvested quota along with this year’s surviving YOY eating away at the biomass that makes up the “food” for the lake.

Now, anyone who has fished this winter and last fall has clearly witnessed the huge schools of perch and other baitfish. This tells my common sense, the lake is out of balance meaning less predators more baitfish. Now, by making the slot potentially smaller, we could underharvest even more next year. Hence the lake predator biomass increases significantly again. What is the breaking point, where the predator biomass becomes so great the baitfish are suddenly wiped out.

I realize many, many factors can play a roll in year to year success of each species spawn. Nothing guarantees last year was a success nor will this spring be a success. But, my question remains, can’t we manage the lake to more level numbers from year to year vs. these huge peaks and valleys that are happening??

Hey Jack, what do you think about my questions/statements after being at the meeting last night??

Im not trying to be funny at all here but trying to put things in some kind of a readable theme

I or anyone of us contol much of nothing;;-
the Dnr and resorts do as much as they cant to put Mother Nature in line with our Demands;

it helps but its sure not the answer as everyone can see,- some years the perch gain control, then the gators, then the eyes;;
there all predators of each other;;- then you stop to think–? how do they survive? where do they spawn? what water depth does each spawn in? has the temp and low water level the last 4-5 years have anything to do with things? fishing pressure during GOOD TIMES?

Just an old time remembered!!!
crap we speared suckers and carp out of the small creaks that flowed out of the Big Pond by Headquarters and the culvert pass underground by the Dewing highway
there were eyes and gators all over in there;; what do you see now? nothing –not even enough water for a perch to swim threw and spawn

dont anyone think that someone has to allow digging out some of these “OLD SPAWNING GROUNDS” AND ALLOW THE HATCH TO COME ALIVE AND DO THERE OLD CYCLE OF LIFE AGAIN

where do you find spawning fish first? in a creek, off shore or close to it- current running to coverand nuture the eggs, a peacefull spot to let mother nature be left alone for the natures call– it might help us lots in years to come

just ideas, comments and my opinions
im not bad mouthing anyone

just a follow up thought;;

could you just picture or even fathom the tought of the swamp behind headquarters to the south and a little to the north being dug out and set aside -Just for a spawning area, a testing site for DNR, and a visitors area to walk around on and just look at fish reproduction

Its just a vision to me, but I sure hope it happens in my life time to prove me right or wrong– if you dont try or suggest an idea about fishing related ideas- its just fishing and i will still love it knowing i hopefully put some kind of idea forward to try and help

The DNR and resorts have been saying for a couple years that they want a more stable slot so thats what they got.It really doesnt matter to me but if I were a resort owner and wanted to stay in bussiness I would have wanted a bigger slot.First of all I think the lake would be fine with a 20-28 slot.I wouldnt want it over 20 as I think you are starting to get into the females over that.I thought it was stupid when they used to raise it to 22 in the fall a few years back.Fishing is likely to still be on the slow side this year with the bait that is left and other than opener and some holidays I think it will be slow up there From a resort stand point I would rather have a bigger slot to draw people and take a chance that they would have to cut it back late in the year rather than drawing a crowd every 4 years when the hot bite and prostitutes show up.As a fisherman being an hour from the pond this is great news.Plenty of parking and not as many boats on the water.I just hope that by us not taking our quota the natives dont keep raising theirs,but Ill bet they do.

I’m ok with keeping the current slot as a long term goal. I would however like to see a 14 inch minimum added.

-J.

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I’m ok with keeping the current slot as a long term goal. I would however like to see a 14 inch minimum added.

-J.

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What he said….

big G

I would also like to see a minimum but that also wont happen.They say a lot of them swallow the hook or get pulled up to fast and dont make it but I dont see that.You think its bad there with people keeping small fish go to LOW.There are buckets full of 10-12 inchers in the cleaning shack.Last week I saw a guy cleaning fish that werent 8 inchers I told him he should have saved them for bait

The reasons they gave for keeping the slot at 18″ was that one time every 10 years the take would approach the harvest limit (which is acceptable I guess). If the slot was under 20″ that number changes to one time every 4 years.

It was a very educational meeting. The main thing I learned was that the DNR has no idea what they’re doing. I’m not ripping on them, they just CAN’T know what’s going to happen because there are just to many variables.

The 06 year class was brought up. The past couple years that class was said to be the best in years. On the graphs and charts they show now, that year class is now the lowest by far. When asked where those fish are, the DNR responded with “we don’t know”. It became a very common, frustrating theme throughout the meeting….”We don’t know”.

The invasive’s part of the meeting was eye opening. In 2005 there were 3 or so zebra mussels found in the lake. In 06, after checking those same areas (I think around 15 different spots) 10 or so were found. In 07 the number climbed a little more and in 08 they EXPLODED. In one 600′ long trawl area of 3 mile there were 3,600 zebras reported when just the year before there were NONE. All the areas they’ve designated as test sites now have zebra mussels on them. They’ll really be stepping up enforcement at the landings this year. NO BAIT can be taken from the landing without first changing the water in the containers to “spring” water that you’ve brought with you. This includes leach containers (even if you didn’t open that particular dozen or container). They’ll also be checking that you’ve drained the bilge and the livewells.

There was obviously alot more discussed, I think they said the next meeting was in July? If you get a chance, attend it.

I’m sure Jack will chime in eventually.

Adam

OK, I poured a tall one and am going to try to hit some of the questions and touch a few of the key points from last night.

Kooty asked why they didn’t increase the harvest? Well, if you are considering the slot as the harvest, you are right, we as a group, the Input Group included, are not increasing the slot. It is not a wise thing for us to do at this time. The DNR is increasing the harvest, by increasing the number of pounds we can harvest from the lake before we reach our allocation. That allocation includes harvested pounds as well as hooking mortality pounds. As an FYI for everyone, the hooking mortality for last year, with the colder water, was calculated at 3%, which is very low. That is why the “harvest” totals from last year are so low. The last several years before last, our mortality rate was as high as 17%, and why it seemed such large numbers were taken from the lake. So in reality we can and probably will harvest a lot more fish this year, but still with the 18-28″ protected slot. As for the abundance of lake fish, you have drawn the wrong conclusion there my friend. Thru out history, when ever there is an abundance of bait, we have a slow bite. We had an average bite in 1991 with normal amounts of bait, but in 1992, the bait levels were down and we had the “bite of the century” with 1.2 million pounds harvested. Fishing was real tough for the next 2 years because of that bite. In short, data shows that thru history, when the bait levels are high, fishing will be slow, as was the case last year.

As for this season coming, we have very good reason to be optimistic. The strong 2005 year class of fish is growing very fast and should all be over the 14″ line this season, with the females reaching into that 15-16″ range as the season progresses. There is another reason which is both good and bad for us to think this might be a good year. This fall the seine net surveys showed that we had a large year class of small minnows in the lake. The problem was that while the numbers were high, the size of those minnows was small, and the survival of those minnows over the winter was questionable. If those minnows had much of a die off, all those smaller walleyes will be looking for food, and the result will be a stronger bite. The down side is of course, how much of an impact will the winter have on the survival of last years walleye hatch? One point that was a major concern for the biologists was why are small walleyes having trouble growing into the harvest range? As Adam said, that one strong year class has just disappeared, and we do not know just why.

As for the invasives issue. It is going to be making a HUGE difference for the lake starting this year with inspections at all landings, and fines will be handed out. An awarness program is in the works as well. BUT…..the biggest change is going to be over the next 2-5 years. The Zebra mussels are taking over the lake, and in as few as 5 years we could be looking at the bottom of the lake in 25′ of water!! Fishing as we have known it on Mille Lacs will never be the same. As the water clears we will see weeds starting to spread into areas we have never seen them before. As the water clears, and light penetrates the water, the weeds will spread. The smallie population will probably explode, and with the spread of the weeds, both pike and muskie numbers will change as well. My big concern is the tullibe population. If the water clears too much, the sun will might warm it too much for the tullibees to exsist in Mille Lacs. If we lose them, we could be loosing the key forage base for large fish of several species.

Lastly, as for the meeting Adam refered to in July. This is a meeting I asked the DNR to have with the Input Group. Reason being that the DNR is actively putting together a proposal to present to the tribes addressing the “Harvest overage” clauses in the court settlement. This year we are in a 1 time “experimental condition 2” rating of the lakes stoking biomass. This will allow sport anglers to exceed the allocation by as much as 5% if we have a strong bite, without having to, shall I say, pay back next year for our over harvest next year. In my posting a couple weeks ago about the status of the Mille Lacs Fishery, the stoking biomass last year was in the lowest condition, “3”. This year 2 of the 3 major indices for grading the stocking biomass were above the levels needed for a condition “1”, which is the highest we can get, but 1 indice was still at a condition”2″ level. The DNR discussed this with the Tribal biologists and agreed to the “Experimental” condition 2 we have this year, thus allowing us the additional 5% allowance without penalty if we exceed our allocation.

Enough for tonight. Things are not bad. But trust me, things are going to get a lot tougher in the next few years with zebras and other invasives threatening our lakes.

Interesting. Thanks for the good info. Jack.

Yes those Zebra Mussels are a huge problem esspecially when ML is a pretty clear lake to begin with.Weeds have a hard time holding in ML because of the wave action but if they do the mill foil will also spread which is another problem.So far it is only in the harbors and maybe some bays.

Hey Jack are you still living up by ML? My buddy Pete said you moved out of his place.

Pete sold the place, so I had to move. Was going to have to anyway. I start my new job Monday, OTR trucking for a company out of Fargo. Wasn’t going to pay rent and utilities for a place I was only going to see a couple days a month. I’ll be back in May for the summer, then hit the road again in Oct./Nov. for the winter months. Thinking of doing long haul, and not even come back to Minnesota during the winter next year. Take all my time off somewhere down south where its warm and has good open water fishing.

A couple things here…

Weeds…The spreading of weeds will be more influenced by light penetration in the water than wave action. Yes, the wave action will have some effect, but not much. Much of the areas that do not have weeds right now probably won’t develope new weed growth. Where we will see the most spread will be where the weed lines develope out deeper, say a weed line extends out to say 12′, in the future that may be 18′ of water. Garrison Bay could really be effected with its long gentle slope. Malmo bay is another area of concern too.

Zebras…As they filter the water and make it clearer, the weeds will spread, as already said. Just how much they will clear the water up is a question though. On lake Erie, they can see the rock bottom of the lake in 25′ of water when its calm and sunny. There is some small question though if Mille Lacs would be effected to that extreme. What could be a larger concern though is that these zebras feed on the zooplankton that so many newly hatched minnows need to feed on in their earliest stages of life. If the zebras reduce that plankton density, we could possibly have trouble recruiting strong year classes of fish in the future.

Ya I know he sold it to his dad.Nice piece of property back there,I deer hunted there a couple times last year.Are you going to tow the Yar Craft behind the 18 wheeler

Wow, I didn’t know the invasives were such a threat. That is pretty scary. What are they doing on Erie to combat the zebras?? I know they brought the lake back from some nasty conditions.

I guess my fear of the DNR’s ability to manage the lake is confirmed. They simply can’t. Maybe, just maybe, man has little affect on the lake. It’s gonna have it’s peaks and valleys of harvestable fish. Maybe they only need to regulate the lake during that 1 in 10 years when the bite is lights out and the fish are starving?? Those other 9 years, we’ll never hit our quota anyway.

All I know is, if they can’t manage a lake like this, I have no confidence they can tell me two line fishing is gonna have any affect.

Thanks for the info boys!!

I guess I give the DNR some credit but ML is a very tough lake to manage when you have a quota to deal with and a large amount of netting and then the anglers targeting basically the same size fish.It is also what I call a word of mouth lake,when the bite is on everyone and his brother shows up and when its the dead sea no one shows up.I wonder what the average take is over like say a 10 year period.Im also not sure having a large amount of 20+ inch fish in the system is a good thing either.I guess I wont bring up the 2 line thing again

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I guess my fear of the DNR’s ability to manage the lake is confirmed. They simply can’t.

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Its not for lack of ability on their part. It has much more to do with court decisions, and a very long list of variables that man kind has absolutely no control over. You could say it is a Jurasic Park situation. Nature will do what nature does, we can only watch and learn from it.

Would fishing be different if there was no tribal harvest…yes. That is not to say we should try to “chase the allotment” each year because of it either.

Would the other issues that threaten the lake not be there if there was no tribal harvest….NO.

This picture is much broader than just tribal gill netting, and being able to keep a fish an inch or 2 longer.

It will be interesting how the zebs do affect the water clarity. On a side note, you can see bolders on bottom in Lake Michigan in over 50 feet of water on a calm bright day.

-J.

With the new stricter evasive rules, wonder what affect it will have the spring netters??

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With the new stricter evasive rules, wonder what affect it will have the spring netters??

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It will have a lot of effect on them. Not saying they won’t still come, but strict inspections might disuade some.

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With the new stricter evasive rules, wonder what affect it will have the spring netters??

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It will have a lot of effect on them. Not saying they won’t still come, but strict inspections might disuade some.

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Who are you kidding, Jack? Our state DNR will do nothing to discourage any activity the tribes choose to engage in.

-J.

There is already an agreed upon inspection for all the netters coming from Wisconsin.

These invasives are a very serious deal. VHS, is known to be in Wisconsin waters, and they/we are doing everything possible to prevent it from getting into our lakes. Besides zebras, and VHS, there is concern about an asian worm found in some fish, gobys, hydrangia, and several other viruses I don’t remember the names of possibly invading our waters in the near future.

This is a big enough scare to the DNR that they brought in 2 specialists to the meeting last night to explain what might happen. These Wisconsin boats might get tested for all the same invasives as any out of state bait shipper might be checked for coming into the state.

I’ll believe it when I see it and I do intend to be around to watch.

-J.

Tell that to GLAIFWC (?), not me.

I have absolutely zero confidence the DNR or anyone for that matter can stop the spread of exotics. All attempts have failed. There is not one single plan ever implemented that has even slowed the progression. Its a total failure. To say the DNR will do their “inspections” to pacify us is BS.

GLIFWIC could care less about the health of Mille Lacs. They just want their meat! By God, meet my quota before the white guy shows up at opener!

The grumblings have started and will continue to grow this year. Grrrrrrr!

-J.

I’m starting to think your anger is being unfairly piled onto the DNR here Jon.

You as much if not more than most people here understand exactly what “laws” allow and what they don’t. You should, you are always quoting them! The Supreme Court 1837 Treaty Harvest ruling has totally tied the DNR’s hands as to what they can and can not do in relation to Mille Lacs. To say that our DNR is only trying to apease us is just wrong. They want to do everything they possibly can to prevent invasives from getting into our waters. The problem is they have to work with GLIFWIC in dealing with the tribes. They are also just as concerned about the ever increasing spread of invasives, and want to do as much as possible also to prevent their spreading.

The fact that these invasives can totally destroy a fishery is not lost on anyone here, regardless from what side of the fence you look at it from.

Two separate topics here. One – Tribal netting. It’s wrong. We all know it. I will never accept it and will continue to rally against it until I’m dead! Remeber, time changes everything. There was a time women couldn’t vote and blacks were slaves. Both completely accepted as the norm and held up by the courts. Until people like me spoke out againt it!

Two. Invasive species in Minnesota. Short of complete lake quarantines and a DNR inspections at every launch and private dock on every lake and pond 24/7 365 days a year it will not work. If the DNR plan is to “Educate” me every time I leave a lake, they can stick it! Even then I have my doubts. Take Vadnaise lake for example. No boats on that lake since milfoil was found in the state, yet completely infested!

-J.

I understand that the Tribes have a treaty giving them the right to harvest fish. It’s the means they go about that harvest that is the problem. I think the issue is “gill nets” and their use during the spawn, on the spawning beds.

Change the time and method of their harvest, and most arguements go away.