Lake expansion with the warm up in temperature!!!

Sure hope nobody follows that other snowmobiles trail at night cooking at a good speed,that might make for one heck of a launch on a sled..

man! a picture is worth a thousand words, is that out from big point?

NA…..Lakeside!! Picard Point

Awesome pictures Bobber!!

I especially like the one with the sled tracks
going up the heave.

Thanks!!

Nice pics Bob. I was crossing that crack less than a week on the 4-Wheeler. Looks like I won’t be doing that anymore.

Chomps, it is by Picard Point on the eastside just north of Hunter’s.

Josh

I was wondering how long it would take, with more to come. NICE pic’s BoB

What in the hell caused that You dont see that here in Iowa.

Picture this!!!

Mille Lacs Lake is 132,000 acres and more than 200 square miles!! That’s one big ice cube!!! When the sheet of ice is exposed to a big rise in air temperature it grow’s!!!

Kinda like dropping a marshmallow in a cup of hot chocolate.

Thanks Bob you guy can keep that thing what does it sound like when that happens?

Like an earthquake! A big one will rattle the windows. A few weeks ago I saw a Frabil speedshack get eaten by a breaker. Good thing the guys hopped out quick like!!

Good pics Bob. Nice to see Mesa out there enjoying the outdoors

Well, at least those heaves aren’t pushing those boulders up on my lawn like last year. I couldn’t believe how many huge rocks were so far up on the grass last year when I opened up the cabin. Cool Pics Bob.

Thanks for posting my pictures Bobber….

Ah…..come on sweetie!! don’t be so hard on me

I just forgot to add that to the photo’s!

Nurse, you need to keep tht boy in line.

I got a dumb question. If when water freezes and turns to ice in pvc pipes and glass bottles why does it expand and break both items, yet on the pond when it gets cold ice contracts? The only thing I can think of is there is oxygen in the water which causes it to increase its mass when turning from a liquid to a solid. Anybody?

Quote:

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Ah…..come on sweetie!! don’t be so hard on me

I just forgot to add that to the photo’s!

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Bob, don’t you know Kath by now, words are only words, but a new “boat” aka Diamonds are a girls best friend

It is actually the melting that causes it to expand. A mini model for this is to put water in an ice cube tray. When it freeses, it stays within it’s boundaries. When it thaws, the ice rides high as it expands.

The IDA designated “Crackhead” posted the following last week on this subject. As is ‘splained, your ice in the pvc/bottle ONLY breaks(expands) when the air temp surrounding it WARMS a degree or two.

Feb. ’07—Crackhead

Ice expands and contracts…no different than liquid in a pop bottle. It expands as temps warm up and contracts as temps cool down.

A pop bottle breaks with a 1-3 degree rise in temps, meaning it expands a fraction of an inch which is enough to split the can or crack the bottle. When you multiply that SAME rate of expansion across 20 miles of ice, the fraction of an inch turns into feet.

On a lake like Mille lacs, falling temps shrink the ice. One MAIN crack opens at an equal pace around the entire lake, similtaneously. It’s a very slow, creaking movement, that might take 2-8 hours, usually over night with falling temps that can result in a 20 inch or more split. Some nights less, dependant on the amount of change there is from the warmer temps the day before. All the while this ice is splitting, the open water is re-freezing too. In the middle of the crack, it will be open an inch, and get thicker as you move to the outside edge of the crack. So rarely is there much actual “open” water in a crack but if it is a “live” crack, it’s NOT safe to cross over the crack with a truck/car–without a bridge.

When the temps warm as the sun gets higher, the big sheet of ice gets bigger, again at the SAME rate all around the lake. The night-time crack slowly closes—depending on how warm it gets and how fast it warms. BUT! Now it is trying to get bigger, working against that fresh ice in the night-time crack. It keeps getting bigger and all of a sudden, breaks the other side of the crack up or down….thus….we have a “heave”. Because there is SOOOO much pressure on the two sides of the night-time crack as the sheet expands, when it finally breaks or gives, THAT is a fast 1-5ft. sliding movement. 1 second and you have a heave!

Can your fish house get into trouble? Most likely not. Unless you are very unlucky and have it,coincidentlly, positioned in line with a newly forming crack, or have it setting on a live crack when it heaves up. It’s happened but the only thing in the end that comes out of it is dirty underwear. (I know that from experience!)

So—that’s the long of the short of the crack thing.

Its all clear to me now! kind of interesting I guess. Thanks for your input Tuck and Crackhead.

water is most dense at 39 degrees, when water is cooled the bonds between the hydrogen and oxygen become less dense or move away from each other thus increasing its mass i believe heaves happen when ice warms up it begins to shrink, as it shrinks it creates large amounts of pressure from the water below and contracting of the ice on top, the pressure is then relieved at a crack or weak spot in the ice creating a heave. ice floats because at 32 degrees it is less dense than water in its liquid form otherwise lakes would freeze from the bottom up causing lakes to freeze out every year. just a guess but it seems to make sense.

Matt, Water is a pretty amazing substance. At 39F it is at it’s densist, which in the winter keeps the warmest water on the bottom. At the point of freezing, 32F it is at it’s greatest volume, approximately 10% more volume than it’s liquid state. Once it becomes a solid (freezes) it will start shrinking again as it gets colder and will expand to it’s greatest volume again, just before it melts.

duh, read the second page idiot!

LOL

I just got a notification to check out this post. Someone was calling someone an idiot. Help. Help. Quick.

The way I read it David was directing that post at himself for making a post that covered info that was already added.

If I’m wrong… let me know.

And for the record I thought David’s post was quite useful as many of our visitors are unlikely to be familiar with the way water behaves as it warms and cools.

I thought the same thing!!!

David was talking about himself I believe……..

lol Yup–he be talkin’ ’bout “his self”.

Good info David! Thank you. (yes I mean about the ice–NOT him callin’ himself an idiot…lol)

Hey! Now I wanna know why somebody didn’t protest Jack callin’ me Crackhead! lol So I even get a custom rod in the mail the other day with “Crackhead” engraved on it! What’s up with that?!!lol WHO did THAT??!!! Nice rod though….

My name ain’t Rodney! But I get no respect….lol lol

I think Gary Wellman knows something about this “Crackhead” stuff on the rod! Guilty!

Yep, you got it right! Better to just admit it and get it over with. Maybe the perch will feel sorry for me this weekend.