Trolling Question…Is a Kicker a luxury

Figure this may be as good a forum to ask considering all the trolling people are doing now up on Mille Lacs. What do the majority of guys troll with? Kicker motor or regular motor with drift sock? Someday I’d like to get a newer boat and as my fishing preferences expand I’d like something I would be able to troll Mille Lacs or Pool 4 with. I was out with a guy last weekend who had a 115 Yamaha on the back and controlled his speed using a drift sock. Seems to be on the surface a far more economical way to do it. Is there pros and cons to both approaches?
Thanks.

Andy

Andy…

I have done both. For two years I trolled with my 115 Johnson. This year I joined the T8 brigade. Let me tell you, I’ll never look back!

During the warm months you can certainly do just fine trolling with the main motor, particularly if it will keep you in the 2-3 mph range. My johnson 115 4s does this just fine. Its fine speed control is lacking, however, and if I were to find myself between 2.5 and 3 mph, for example, I would have to be happy, even if most of my fish were coming at the low or high end of that range. In other words, I couldn’t control my speed over less than a 0.5 mph range.

When I wanted to go slower than low 2s, I would either drop my bowmount and turn it 90 degrees to give me some resistance, or drop a sock off a cleat, or both, to give me the desired speed. In principle this works. Sometimes it would work too well, and I would have to compensate for a slow speed with more engine rpms. This of course increases engine noise, and I would begin to lose confidence if I were targetting spooky fish in skinny water. This is also a bummer from the perspective of having to haul in the bag and get wet all throughout a trip, particularly if the water is cold. Neverthess, an economical way to achieve slow speeds, but again with little speed precision.

I popped for a T8 about 6 weeks ago. Had a chance to use it on the pond two weekends ago. Holy hannah, what an improvement. It I want to hit 1.8, I dial in the speed using the throttle, and away we go at 1.8. Wanna go 1.6? no problem, back off and away we go at 1.6. how about a run at 2.2? No sweat, 2.2 it is.

Here’s the bummer. I lost a screw out of my T8’s shifting mechanism half way through the last ngiht of the trip. It was stuck in forward, so once I turned it off I couldn’t restart it. So, had to go back to trolling with the big motor. Dropped the bowmount and then the kicker too to get me to less than 2 mph. I cringed watching my speed bounce between 1.5 and 2.0 mph, knowing full well that before the kicker konked out, all of my fish were coming slow, around 1.6.

Well, I spent a week picking my kicker apart and am happy to report that I can now fix the shifting mechanism of a T8, and I’m looking forward to putting it to good use next weekend.

I know kickers are expensive. Ask yourself how often you would troll….not just cranks, but spinners too…if you’re a troller (I know I am), then maybe it’s time to invest in a kicker. Used T8s often become available in the 1500-2000 range. I bought mine new from Marine Specialties…Paul Kanz at Marine Specialties is a walleye guy and an IDA fan and site sponsor…. be sure to drop him a note when you’re in the market for a T8!

By economical, do you mean not having to invest in a second motor? Because, fuel-wise, I would think a kicker would be more economical. As for the driftsock idea for trolling, I’ve never tried it, but fishing in the dark with a 150′ of line playing out behind me, the last thing I would want is a driftsock that could possibly get in the way of bringing a hawg walleye or pike to the boat. Did your friend bring the driftsock in each time he got a fish, or just leave it trailing out behind the boat?

If you flip into neutral, the sock will fall and hang ~ vertically. It definitely is a hazard that you must be aware of when a fish is near the boat. Especially those pesky gators that have the tendency to make long runs.

Andy, it all depends on how serious you are and how much do you troll??

Is there one better than another????? A kicker is the only way to go in my opinion. Did I always have one?? No, I did not. I used a troll plate for 3 years. The reason being is budget and money. Now that I have one I would never not have one again. I troll many hours a year, so to me it is a necessity. Can you get by with out one?? You could get by, but if you can afford one I would definitely buy one.

The only con to a kicker is the cost. However if you can afford it is not a con. The control (speed and steering) you have with a kicker is 2nd to none. These 2 factors are often very vital of putting more fish in the boat. Can you still catch fish with a drift sock, no question you can, but I have graduated (became more serious about trolling) and I’m not interested in putting a few fish in the boat, I want to put more fish in the boat. That is the #1 reason why I got kickers on the back of my boats.

Hope this helps and good luck with your decision.

I am in the same boat. I want a kicker in the worst way but simply can’t afford it right now. I just upgraded and got a new boat and a 10 by 20 shack this year. Hopefully, next year or the year after. Until then I will be dragging a sock. Another trick is to simply bump her into nuetral and make runs into the wind. Not ideal but I still usually can find fish.

Kicker is a must have item on my boat. Not only for slow trolling, but as a back up if you lose the main motor. Might take a while, but you can always get back to the ramp!

Another benefit to having a kicker is safety on big water like Mille Lacs. I too, am saving up the coins to buy a kicker. Without one, I know I’m more worried about motor trouble.

OK, let’s spin this discussion in another direction.
I have Grandpa’s old 5hp Sea King. It still runs like a champ and will throttle down very slow and would fit on the transom next to the big motor. I can see that shaft length might be an issue, and there’s the hassle of having a separate gas can. Any other known reason why this shouldn’t work? I’ll bet there ar a lot of 5/6 Hp motors sitting around not being used right now.

Rootski

I can see the pros of haveing a kicker motor on a larger boat. It would be the way to go. Now on a mid sized boat a drift sock or larger trolling motor might be the way to go. My boat has a 75hp on it and can troll down to 2mph pretty good. Couldnt see spending the money on a kicker to get from 2mph to 1mph. Went with the trolling sock. You do need to keep a eye on it while netting fish. Remember to pull it in when moving. Its tough to get on plain with it out. But still couldnt see putting a kicker on my boat for what there is to gain from it.
When trolling with a sock out we tie it to the front of the boat. Just make sure rope is short anough to keep it out of the motor.

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OK, let’s spin this discussion in another direction.

I have Grandpa’s old 5hp Sea King. It still runs like a champ and will throttle down very slow and would fit on the transom next to the big motor. I can see that shaft length might be an issue, and there’s the hassle of having a separate gas can. Any other known reason why this shouldn’t work? I’ll bet there ar a lot of 5/6 Hp motors sitting around not being used right now.

Rootski

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Rootski,

A lot of us did that early on for kickers. Just get a small tank for the fuel. One that will sit in the splash well if possible.

The two problems you will have are securing the motor while under way and breathing in 2-stroke smoke when trolling. Don’t rely on the stock motor lift/tilt bracket to hold the motor in place when running, especially in chop. What I did was use a combination of bungee cords and wood block to ensure the motor was secured before running spot to spot. You will probably be ok trailering in the down position. Also, make sure to carry a bottle of asprin to cure the 2-stroke smoke headache……

One more tip on the 2-strokes. After a long period of trolling it’s a good idea to run the motor wide open for a few minutes to clear out any buildup on the plugs so it starts easy the next time.

-J.

Don’t know if you’re running a tiller or not, but I have a kicker with its own controls next to the 150. Tie the two motors together and steering is a breeze. Works great for Great Lakes, LOW, Mille Lacs etc. I do have to carry a small gas tank for it (2 cycle) but I get many hours out of a tank. Only problem is it gets a bit smoky if the wind is coming from the back of the boat. And yes, I’ve had to use it coming off of big water when the big motor conked out on me – you never know.

Pete

Thanks Jon, great advice as usual. I don’t think this old Sea King even has a lock mechanism to keep it tilted, and I used to use a piece of 2X2 and a bungee cord to hold it up when I was launching.

This motor will troll down very nicely but the plugs do load up so I know what you mean about opening her up. Crack that throttle and she’ll smoke pretty good for a few minutes and then it’s back to trolling. I think I’m going to try this out.

Rootski

Actually I was the one trolling with the main motor and drift sock.I also have a kicker on the back.The reason I trolled with the main motor that night is because of the wind and I have a windsheild that grabs a lot of air and was easier to control the boat with the main motor and drift sock.I prefer to use the kicker but in some cases it is easier to use the main.Also when you have high winds it helps to have a drift sock out when you hook a fish as it keeps the boat more in control when you put it in nuetral.I wouldnt have a boat without a kicker but it will depend on how much you are going to use it.You can definitly get by without one but they are nice to have and also good to have a backup if you are on big water.It would also depend on how big your main motor is.If I had a boat and the main was say 75 HP or less I probably wouldnt go with a kicker and just use the main.

A kicker is only a necessity if you want to catch as many fish as possible, as consistently as possible. If catching a few fish from time to time is OK then no kicker is needed.

But if you want to be able to have the ultimate in speed and boat control, which is critical to consistently catching walleyes on crankbaits, then a kicker is not an optional tool.

Do you guys with the big rigs and the T8’s have your kicker tied into the main motor steering and the main tank?
Or are you running it seperately from the main motor/tank? (tiller)

I’m thinking that since my wife says the Mr. Pike is my boat for life I’m gonna rig that sucker to the max

dd

Andy, a kicker is a MUST in my mind. I put more hours on my kicker motor than I do my main motor. I LOVE to pull live bait or minnow type crankbaits on 3-ways, spinners on bottom bouncers, or long line trolling crankbaits for walleyes or even in-line spinners for panfish and stripers. I can troll all day on my kicker and use only 3 gallons of gas where if I were to use the main motor it would cost me around 15 gallons of gas.
Thanks, Bill

Thanks for all the responses. A lot of good advise to take into account for a future boat purchase. I haven’t set into pricing things out yet, but on average what is a kicker going to add onto the sticker price? Sounds like it is the difinate way to go.

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Do you guys with the big rigs and the T8’s have your kicker tied into the main motor steering and the main tank?

Or are you running it seperately from the main motor/tank? (tiller)

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Both. I have a tiller and run it that way 99% of the time. I also have a rod that connects the two easily. It’s sold through Panther Marine products. Check out “Auxiliary Motor Steering Kit” on this website.

Panther

-J.

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on average what is a kicker going to add onto the sticker price? Sounds like it is the difinate way to go.

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A Yamaha T8, the best of the best in my opinion, will set you back $2300 (plus tax) from LaCannes Marine right now. Marine Specialties (a site sponsor) had them priced at $2100 but sold out of them for the remainder of 2006 for obvious reasons.

Call both of these dealers when it comes time to buy. They seem to have had the best prices for the past umpteen years while some dealers are trying to push them for $2800 +.

If you troll a lot and you do not have speed control between 1 – 3 mph, then you will need the kicker. It all depends on your boat, the main motor, and the trolling motor. Sometimes, you can achieve speed control between 1-3 mph with a trolling motor alone. And if that comes with an auto-pilot, you might prefer to troll with the trolling motor.

Also, it also depends on what lake you are fishing. Some lakes are calm and trolling motor would do fine for you. However, larger lakes like Mille Lacs and Lake Michigan, the waves are larger and for Lake Michigan, a normal is 2-3 foot waves. Even if your trolling motor can troll upto 3 mph in calm water, it might not work at all in these waters. A kicker is a must if your main does not let u troll down to 2 mph.

Aother issue is fishing time. If you run a 24 V at setting 8-10 on the trolling motor, I think you could perhaps last 1-2 hours at most. Then your motor will die. A kicker will last as long as u have gas on board.

A final benefit is as a back up motor on large lakes. This is particularly so if you have a less then dependable main motor and you do not want to be stranded out in a large lake…..in bad weather.

Lastly, I think if you shopped around, you could find deals on non-currents or used. You should be paying around 2K – 2.2 K for non-currents.

If you buy your boat new, work in the option for the kicker with your dealer. So that you perhaps could try the boat out without the kicker and if you feel that you need it, tell him you will come back within 3 months to have the kicker installed. Hopefully, you could save some by packaging that optional kicker deal and also save on rigging costs.

Lastly, I have the T8. It really has been great. Always starts real easily. You got to choke it in cold weather and turn the throttle to the right position when u start it. However, I think the main consideration for the kicker is actually to match your main motor. If u get a black motor, then get the Merc. If Yammy, then the T8. However, I must tell u that the Merc prokicker could be significantly more expensive than the T8.

I ran the Panther rod and the TR1 with my T-8 this year and absolutely loved it! A quick snap off, and you can use it in tiller mode. Leave it on, and it swivels when you raise and lower the big motor. The best thing is that when you steer from the wheel, you can use the hydrolic steering of your big motor!

When I bought my Crestliner boat 3 years ago I thought that my 60 HP Mercury motor would idle down just fine for all my trolling needs. I really didn’t foresee all the benefits a kicker motor would give me. However, I found out rather quickly during my first year with the boat that wasn’t the case and bought a T8 2 years ago. Most throttles on main motors are a little touchy to stay locked on a particular speed and you don’t have nearly the same fine tuning adjustments that I have with my T8. I love to night fish on Mille Lacs in the Fall and on many nights just a couple of tenths of a mile per hour adjustment in speed can turn a slow or average night into a very good night. I really like the extra power and control my T8 gives me when fishing the current in the river or if I am having a problem with my trolling motor or main motor. They are a little pricey but worth every penny in my opinion if you can afford one. Good luck.

EyesHaveIt

my t-8 is a tiller. for the lakes i fish and the kind of trolling i do, the tiller is the only way to go. if you fish the great lakes or troll in long stright lines, having the controls and stearing with the main motor may be good for you. i do have the connecter rod from the main motor to the kicker but only use it less than 10% of the time. boat control is by far better with the tiller. like it was said above, speed control with the t-8 is way better than with the main motor, like it was said above, a few 1/10’s mph either way can be the ticket. if you are specking a new boat, bite the bullet, and buy it and have it from the begining. if you only troll on 1 trip a year, maybe a drift sock will be ok, any more than that, buy the kicker……….tom fellegy

If I figure right, and am looking to package it into a new boat deal, if I want the T8, I’ll most likely have to go with a G3 boat? Or maybe Alumacraft? Lund or Crestliner now I’d have to go Merc, right?

It literally takes 20 minutes to hang a T8, so you don’t neecessarily have to get it with the boat. I would not rule out Lund or Crestiliner on this basis anyway. The only issue would be if you use the dealer’s financing. They may not work with you to get a T8. It’s been my experience the dealer’s financing isn’t as good as you can get from a local credit bureau anyway.

Good luck and have fun shopping!!!

I haven’t heard any complaints about the Merc Pro kicker.

I have had 2 Merc Pro Kickers so far and I like my first one better (2005). MY new one (2006) I trhink the previous owner has messed with the idle and I don’t like it as much. There seems to be a dead spot and either I go to fast or to slow. I need to do some adjusting I think??? My 2005 Pro Kicker is just as good if not better than the few T8’s I have ran. I can’t say the same about my 2006 Pro Kicker however. Like I said, I think I need to do some adjustments.

All in All you will be more than happy with either the T8 or the Pro Kicker.

I can’t buy now because I cannot afford it. However, if anyone is looking ahead and plans to sell before next May, please do not hesitate to look me up.

Try Nelson Marine in White Bear Lake up in twin cities. They might still sell Lunds with the Yammys. Worse come to worse, you could get a non-current that has been rigged. I have a feeling the Nelson will continue to sell Lunds and Yammys.