Possible Changes to MIlle Lacs?

I have heard from a reliable source that possibliy Tuesday Aug. 13th we will here of some changes to the walleye season (harvest).
The Mille Lacs Band has been putting alot of pressure on our Mn DNR to get the angling quota under control?
Some rumors that I have heard are: that they will go back to the night band, others have talked of CLOSING THE LAKE-which would be very bad for the local businesses here around the lake.
I’ll keep you posted here on what I here up on the lake.

Thanks Bob. I’ve been wondering if there was any progress or rumors of progress. I’ll stay tuned!

I would support a total catch and release regulation rather than a night ban or total closure.

The courts have ruled. The state may have no choice in this matter.

Support PERM.

Jon J.

Just got home from our fishing club meeting and the topic came up there also. The consensus was, there are to many big fish and not enough forage in the lake and it needs to be thinned out or it will probably just die out. The healthy fish are suspended in the water colomn feeding and the less healthy looking fish are being pulled off the bottom laying there starving.Think about that you guys that have fished the lake lately.

The other thing that came up was that the indians have an alterior motive pushing the next point.

They want the lake shutdown to create a hardship for the resort and property owners so they have to sell. I was told the indians have been putting millions away to buy up every peice of property around the lake they can. Then try and take it off the tax base, then take back the lake.

Now i’ve known about this theory since the seventies that this was their hopes and I thought that this could never happen, because normally the state just paid them off to go away for a while, but this time we didn’t negotiate and got our butts handed to us in court.

The way the lake is currently I wonder, If we gave them all the fish they wanted to take to save the lake from a crash would they even want them? They really appear to have other motives here don’t they?

Nobody appears to see they have become a larger part of the problem because they’re sure not trying to be part of the solution!!!

I’ll probably get burned for this one.

Considering my fall plans, a night ban and closing the lake are the SAME THING.

The whole point of the 3 year plan was to see what happened over… guess what… three years. Maybe I misread it – it apparently is only a 3 month plan and it’s time to change again.

I hate being pushed in to “us and them” situations – especially when race is involved. As someone who has always been very vocal advocating equal rights and protecting minorities from racisim… This has been a good lesson on why EQUAL rights are important – it doesn’t feel good being cut off from opportunities, money, etc. just because of the color of one’s skin. I can’t own a casino and I can’t net fish.

Hook I have been beating that drum for some time! Pun INTENDED! Welcome to my side of the fence! There are a lot of game and fish biologists who agree with me. Or I should say, I agree with them. Cause and effect. We have seen the cause, the effect is soon to come. Eddy’s SWORE they would NEVER sell! We called them from the Sports Show last Spring, and they vehemently denied the rumors! Now look at it. We may soon have Upper, Lower, and Southeatern Red Lake soon. (I am referring to the management of the lakes, not the native american issues that are going on, so don’t slam me anyone!) Anyone can sell to anyone as far as that goes. It does appear that the Mille Lacs band does have some sort of agenda though. Are the Bands offering some sort of reimbursement for the local establishments if the lake is closed? Maybe it will take opening a State owned Casino to help with the local economy? I say that tongue in cheek, I am not a proponent of expanding corporate welfare in this State, but I do feel for the folks up there who are suffering for something they did not have any part of…
Tuck

Hooks, sometimes baring truth can be abrasive and daring. But if it is truth, it is truth. I’m not stating anything other than pointing out that innocent truth can exist and while it may cause offense, it’s not intended to be malicious. It takes guts to say what you feel if you have no other way to put it.

I’m not going to say that I condone anything done by my forefathers but a nation has been established. If the natives won’t comply to the ecological practices of their conquerors, should they be asked to leave? If we’re going to apologize and give back what was taken, should we all return to our native lands? We’re so mixed up in our make up that I believe it should be recognized that we are now simply Americans. We all interrelate and all the same opportunities are shared. But does refusal of these opportunities render the submission of lands and waters, to be shared unequally?

I don’t have the answers…………….I’m not sure anyone does. But a nation HAS been established and I know if I go out and buy lands and lands that surround waters, even the most convincing of religious practices will not save me from being denied certain ecological practices. If it applies to me, a mixed heritage of numerous peoples, it should apply to everyone who resides within the protection of these borders. We need to swallow the lump in our throat and become one nation. No more us and them arguments. If I can’t practice their “rights”, we remain an unequaled people and our dilemmas will remain in a state of unrest, disturbed by hurt feelings generated by confusing and inconsistant doctrines.

This is daring, but true. If we were to cry over “what once was” because it was “our way of life”, theoretically speaking, the blacks should still be subject to slavery! Times change……….principles of right and wrong continuously being challenged by those who feel offended by statutes of establishment…………..when do we wake up? America has never been built on principles of unequality or seperation.

The way the land was lost may not be ethical or moral, but it’s an old issue that needs to die. There are ways to reserve heritage, culture, and religious practice without banishment of all other Americans. It can be done.

When it’s talked about all the lands and waters that are lost, my own family heritage includes the same ordeal. Different circumstances but nonetheless, we lost lands. Do I have a right to fight and get them back through court rulings? There’s no natives claiming the lands we lost. Am I entitled to the same argument? I, me…………this person I call myself was born to these lands and that’s the same claim given by many, native or otherwise……………so why is there heritage honored and mine dismissed?

Just as we build things to accomplish what we desire, it should be a leveled establishment for all residents that desire something built, to build it. Build it…………….not given it. No entitlements. Give them the financials they need to guarantee a bright future and get on with being an established nation.

There…………..I’ve vented.

BTW… Tuesday the 13th has come and gone. I’m assuming nothing happened. Is everything status quo?

I did a quick scan of Twin Cities newspapers websites and did not see anything about the meetings. If anything is going to happen I hope it is soon.
Dino

Me too. I’m very worried.

The funny thing is, the tight restrictions on Mille Lacs over the past couple years has turned me into a different fisherman. I am much more likely to release walleyes in ANY body of water now. After releasing soooo many nice walleyes on Mille Lacs, it doesn’t hurt so much to turn a 22″ fish loose now. That’s a good thing. Shutting the lake down or ending the fall trolling tradition would be quite another.

It’s ironic isn’t it, that we preach “Catch and Release” to save the populations of fish, and yet it is the practice that is causing the mortality rate to climb to a rate that we may need to shut down the lake? It is odd to me to think we say “Throw ’em back to fight another day”, yet the models the DNR are using claim we are inflicting great harm to the fish population by doing so. So now what? Catch and kill?
Tuck

Tuck, I’ve asked this question before but can’t remember getting a reply. Can they honestly point the finger at catch and release vs. the reports of a food shortage? If the fish aren’t healthy to begin with, aren’t they more susceptible to mortality? I guess I’m wondering why I’m not hearing about this problem in regard to ALL MN waters? Did the media focus on Mille Lacs only or is there no story to cover regarding other fisherys?

Well , its Thursday am and I did not see anything in the paper again or anything on the news. Bobber , any buzz from the locals?
Dino

I believe Mille Lacs is the only lake in the State where the Bands are allowed to harvest this high of a quantity
of walleye. (I am not farmilliar with Leech, Winnie, or any of the other big lakes..or if netting is even allowed.) But most of the smaller lakes that the Bands are allowed to spear and net have MUCH lower quantities allotted to them. Therefore, the imapct on the food base is not affected adversly. Mille Lacs on the other hand, you have a strict slot limit for small fish, allowing the larger fish to decimate baitfish populations. The DNR with their tagging efforts may shed some light on the general health of the fish. If a tagged fish weighed 4.3 pounds when it was tagged, and when caught again weighed 3.9, we may have some answers. I think the first time they release the results of this years tagging efforts, we may see the DNR become more proactive in their management efforts. Without hard data, the DNR is going to get blasted regardless of what decision they make. Time will tell….

I was up last night checking on one of my projects and Bob said the only blurb in the messenger was that the indians wanted it shut down to fishing. Now I haven’t read it yet myself. Nothing else has come up. So stay tuned!!!

Which part are they allowed to shut down?
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Unfortunaley I think the DNR is pretty much doing all that it really can do given the court restraints that have been put on them.Sooner or later this thing will have to go back to court.Whats happening up there should not be happening in this day and age.If the tribe wants it shutdown I think we should make them do it thru the courts ,not voluntarily.

Hey, sorry I’ve had PC problems…..I have been down for the past few day’s. My power supply burn’t out…….

The Mille Lacs Messenger has a write up this week stating the band wants the lake shut down. Also today I see the Outdoor News also has some on the issue.

This thing is going to court again I believe? Yes what happened to the 3 year model that they were going to study?

I wonder what would happen if they netted over thier qouted?

Thanks Tuck! I’ve felt like there’s more to this issue than just C&R mortality because there are many lakes with a strong presence of angling pressure and I haven’t been hearing about everyone else’s shorelines filling up with dead C&R fish…………..anywhere.

Thanks for the updates guys!

This article is in the Minneapolis paper today.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/533/3167543.html

Here it is……

http://www.startribune.com/stories/531/3167543.html

J.

I have tried to calm down a bit after reading the article a couple of times. The part that bothers me the most is the Chippewa comment about “compensation” that they expect because the plan has not worked out. Why do we have to be held hostage over a computer model that assigns 237,000 pounds to mortality? Its bad enough that the model claims that we have kept 162,000 when in reality no one knows for sure.

Dino

Guys- I will wait a bit to comment, right now it would read (censored)(censored)(censored). aghhhh!!!!

Hey dino its just starting, check out the link guys!
Dino you should have something in the mail up north from this place. http://www.millelacsteaparty.com

If you don’t think they have an agenda think again!!!

Check out whats under “National News”

Here is a statement from the StarTrib article that’s got my undies in a bundle…..

“The discussion was the first step in a dispute resolution process intended to resolve conflicts following a 1999 U.S. Supreme Court ruling affirming that the Chippewa reserved off-reservation hunting and fishing rights in east-central Minnesota in an 1837 treaty they signed with the federal government.”

That paragraph is totally incorrect! The Supreme Court only asserted that the Right to Hunt and Gather were not properly taken away from the tribes. In other words, when the US, back in the late 1800’s did not do the paperwork correctly. A Presidential order could do away with the right. “By the Pleasure of the Preident” is clearly written in the treaty. The courts only ruled that the President at that time did not clearly revoke those rights. President Bush could do it in a heatbeat!

GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT!!

J.

I’m going to ramble here a bit but here it goes…………….

I feel if enough pressure was put on the president he could put an end to this sovereign nation B—S—with the stroke of a pen. Would it be controversial, you bet, would it be fair, most certainly.
It time for these people to fully assimalate into society. I’m not saying they can’t respect their heritage, they should just have to abide by the same laws as the rest of the country. But as Jon J. said, he’s the only one who can do anything about it since the courts have ruled.
I think one of the reasons no one has done anything about it is that it hasn’t hit anyone with clout in the pocket book yet. Just because it could cause a few Middle Americans to lose their homes and businesses nobody cares, that’s chalked up to progress for Treaty rights, well that type of progress is a step backwards. You can bet if it affected someone in a position of power or someone with deeper pockets, or people within a metropolitan area, it would of gotten more attention and the decisions would have been different.
They’ve (the Indian tribes) always approached this whole thing with the idea of just taking it in little pieces to get what they want back, and its working.
Time will tell where it ends, but just how many people and resources will need to be hurt or destroyed before then?

Good point Tuck about all the fish eggs removed from the lake by tribal netting of prespawn walleyes.
I want restitution for those!!!
We can come up with a “Mortality Rate” for those, can’t we? Its got to be in the Billions over the last few years.
Hand over those casinos, I want “mine” now too!!!

Without going off on a tangent that isn’t professional, I’m going to voice my opinion here. I am tired of funding these sovereign nations. I would support just about any legislation that would over a short time period integrate each nation into the “real” world. I realize this is a very complicated matter, but I feel it’s one that needs addressed. My fear is I won’t see it in my lifetime. I don’t think there are any politicians out there that are willing put their brassies on the chopping block to attempt this. Time will tell!!

If any of us have an opportunity in the future to talk with any of the politicians that are running for election. Please ask them where they stand with these issues…..and will they take a stand.
I remember having breakfest with Mark Dayton some time ago when he was running for governor. He was up at Karpens Resort here on mille Lacs meeting with many of us from PERM. He was giving us the big low down, that he would do this and that….well he talked a line, but did he get anything done for us?
We need someone to take this stand
I’m not much for politics but this is how I see it…….

When I was at the Twins game last week it was American Indian tradition blah de blah. Anyway, I thought they were there own nation? Why then did one of them sing “OUR” national Anthem? Funny ,they don’t want anything to do with “OUR” people exept when it comes to them and our money. Sure hope Tuck is’nt right about them buying all the lake Resorts and really screwing the anglers! J UST VENTING!