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I’m confused on the entire treaty thing. In the treaties I’ve read it states more than 2 native Americans off tribal land is considered a war party. When did this change? Seems to me treaties can be changed, right ? Or am I way off ???
You’re way off…. 
-J.
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No offense but please stand aside while those of us who care keep trying stuff until we find a solution. I guess I’m wired different, but I’d rather be trying than standing around critiquing and doing nothing.
In this case, its my opinion that not supporting the cause is the better route. I believe nothing will change when netting is stopped. We will be left with the same issue. Use Lake Erie as an example. Commercially netted, invasive species, slot limits. They have seen all the same issues ML has and yet they have a stable fishery. They’ve tried the same things with the same result. Now they have a much more comprehensive plan that is working. Why we can’t shorten our learning curve is riduculuous.
I know that others have the same believe but are not interested in expressing that because of the fierce opposition. And to be honest, I don’t really care to anymore either.
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No offense but please stand aside while those of us who care keep trying stuff until we find a solution. I guess I’m wired different, but I’d rather be trying than standing around critiquing and doing nothing.
In this case, its my opinion that not supporting the cause is the better route. I believe nothing will change when netting is stopped. We will be left with the same issue. Use Lake Erie as an example. Commercially netted, invasive species, slot limits. They have seen all the same issues ML has and yet they have a stable fishery. They’ve tried the same things with the same result. Now they have a much more comprehensive plan that is working. Why we can’t shorten our learning curve is riduculuous.
I know that others have the same believe but are not interested in expressing that because of the fierce opposition. And to be honest, I don’t really care to anymore either.
Really, just sit here sctratching my head thinking of the Mille Lacs/Lake Erie comparison and just about fell of my chair laughing. I remember the walleye they way they once were on Erie, and yet today it’s less than 1/2 of the numbers once held. Here’s one angle on that. Erie walleye numbers So to say everything is fine and dandy over there so you should not care what happens in your back yard is plain sad. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I respect that. Please respect me if I’m laughing. Steve we brought in another donation to the jar at the Red Door a couple weeks back. Keep up the fight.
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What exactly makes hook and line the “right” way to fish? In fact fishing is actually netting, at least historically.
It’s not that netting is somehow the “wrong” way to fish, it is HOW they are netting that is wrong. Netting during that time of year is just poor management. I would have no problem with the netting if it was done at a different time of year.
Any harvasting of that number of fish during that time of year whether it was with a hook or a net would be harmful to a fishery.
I respectfully whole heartdly disagree with you. I agree that it should not be allowed during that time of year. You are right, any harvesting during that time is harmful to the lake.
However, why allow it at all. I typically do not chime in on threads like this but the whole thing makes me sick!
It is sick that it is allowed
It is sick that they do it
And it is sick that in this day and age it continues
Crock of 
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Really, just sit here sctratching my head thinking of the Mille Lacs/Lake Erie comparison and just about fell of my chair laughing. I remember the walleye they way they once were on Erie, and yet today it’s less than 1/2 of the numbers once held. Here’s one angle on that. Erie walleye numbers So to say everything is fine and dandy over there so you should not care what happens in your back yard is plain sad. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I respect that. Please respect me if I’m laughing. Steve we brought in another donation to the jar at the Red Door a couple weeks back. Keep up the fight.
Not sure how you found this story but I found it myself when I googled Lake Erie Walleye Population
But its interesting that of the 6 hits on the first page that talk about walleye populations, only 2 have concerns about the state of the fishery actually declining.
The one you highlighted, was from a website called farmanddairy.com.
I’d like to refer to the first hit on the list Cleveland.com.
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It certainly helps that Buckeye fishermen seldom catch the number of walleye allowed each year by the Walleye Task Group. Ohio has only reached what is called its total allowable catch in two of the last 25 years. For 2013, the lakewide harvest was set at 3.356 million fish. Ohio was allocated 1.715 milllion walleye, slightly less than the 1.782 million in 2012. It is estimated Ohio sport anglers caught 921,390 walleye in 2012, a big jump from the weather-plagued harvest of 593,000 walleye in 2011.
Ontario, the other major player in the Lake Erie harvest, uses commercial fishing nets to catch its allocation. Only sport anglers are allowed to catch and keep walleye in the Ohio waters of Lake Erie. Ontario’s gill nets only missed its quota of 1.502 million walleye by about 100,000 fish. The industry was handed a quota of 1.445 million walleye in 2013.
If I read this right, sport fishing and commercial fishing share the lake wide quota almost equally. On ML, that’s not the case. Sport fishing has either 2/3 or double what the tribal harvest is.
One odd difference I noticed in this story is that they measure the quota by numbers of fish, not weight like MN. This seems more logical to me.
Of everything I read, I saw no consideration toward changing any of the netting practices or trying to ban it altogether.
Don’t get me wrong, netting during the spawn is hurting the fishery. This does need to stop. But thinking that banning the gill net will solve ML, think again.
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No offense but please stand aside while those of us who care keep trying stuff until we find a solution. I guess I’m wired different, but I’d rather be trying than standing around critiquing and doing nothing.
In this case, its my opinion that not supporting the cause is the better route. I believe nothing will change when netting is stopped. We will be left with the same issue. Use Lake Erie as an example. Commercially netted, invasive species, slot limits. They have seen all the same issues ML has and yet they have a stable fishery. They’ve tried the same things with the same result. Now they have a much more comprehensive plan that is working. Why we can’t shorten our learning curve is riduculuous.
I know that others have the same believe but are not interested in expressing that because of the fierce opposition. And to be honest, I don’t really care to anymore either.
Or………you could use Rainy as an example of what happens to a fishery when netting is stopped.
But, you just use whatever makes YOU feel warm & fuzzy.
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One odd difference I noticed in this story is that they measure the quota by numbers of fish, not weight like MN. This seems more logical to me.
YES… That’s exactly what we’ve been trying to say! It doesn’t make sense for a lake to be managed for political reasons and the treaty agreement is based on lbs not # of fish caught which results in slot limits that target smaller fish because they weigh less.
Does anyone thing that Mille Lacs is netted purely out of spite? There are many other lakes in MN with great walleye populations that could be netted as well.
Don’t you think fighting to stop this will generate more anger toward the sport angler? If a fishery like ML can’t be managed well enough to support some kind of netting then how well is it being managed?
Ban the netting and we’re still left with poor management. Nothing changes and now who’s to blame?
Easy to drive up on the weekend, hear the local business owners “beoching” about how bad fishing is and how messed up the lake is, then hop back in your truck and head back to the city, leaving the locals to “keep their chin up” and maybe market better(lie) about how great the fishing is…. yeah that will work 
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Does anyone thing that Mille Lacs is netted purely out of spite? There are many other lakes in MN with great walleye populations that could be netted as well.
Don’t you think fighting to stop this will generate more anger toward the sport angler? If a fishery like ML can’t be managed well enough to support some kind of netting then how well is it being managed?
Ban the netting and we’re still left with poor management. Nothing changes and now who’s to blame?
Can’t help but to ask–was the lake mis-managed before the netting era/court ordered rules? Why would one assume it will be mis-managed after netting/court ordered rules would disappear and past successful management biology based efforts would or could again go into place?
Doe anyone believe the judges that put this into place saw this coming looking forward 15 years? It needs to go back to court…is all we are saying and trying to get done while the DNR, contrary to the courts orders to them, will not do on their own for whatever reasons.
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Easy to drive up on the weekend, hear the local business owners “beoching” about how bad fishing is and how messed up the lake is, then hop back in your truck and head back to the city, leaving the locals to “keep their chin up” and maybe market better(lie) about how great the fishing is….
No, but constantly bitching keeps people away, doesn’t it? I am all for the fight to make things right, but I just don’t see how spamming anywhere and everywhere how terrible the fishing is helps business up there at all…
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Easy to drive up on the weekend, hear the local business owners “beoching” about how bad fishing is and how messed up the lake is, then hop back in your truck and head back to the city, leaving the locals to “keep their chin up” and maybe market better(lie) about how great the fishing is….
No, but constantly bitching keeps people away, doesn’t it? I am all for the fight to make things right, but I just don’t see how spamming anywhere and everywhere how terrible the fishing is helps business up there at all…
Without pointing out the doom and gloom, getting the facts and harsh reality out, how would you suggest one go about raising the funds it will take to fix this mess?
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Easy to drive up on the weekend, hear the local business owners “beoching” about how bad fishing is and how messed up the lake is, then hop back in your truck and head back to the city, leaving the locals to “keep their chin up” and maybe market better(lie) about how great the fishing is….
No, but constantly bitching keeps people away, doesn’t it? I am all for the fight to make things right, but I just don’t see how spamming anywhere and everywhere how terrible the fishing is helps business up there at all…
Without pointing out the doom and gloom, getting the facts and harsh reality out, how would you suggest one go about raising the funds it will take to fix this mess?
I really don’t know but I would first try and get some natives on your side. Right now, they pretty much all look at you as a racist and an indian hater.
I am not saying you are, but it comes off that way to them.
Compromise with anglers and the Mille Lacs band is probably gonna be the best way to save the lake. Do you really think the ML band cares for the Sconny tribes coming over every spring and raping the lake they live on/by and need healthy to prosper? Why not at least attempt it? Or maybe you have tried, I don’t know.
I am betting the DNR would be much more willing to step up to the plate if you had some natives or native groups that want to conserve on your side.
I just doubt the DNR or any government entity would be willing to put their political life on the line by doing something against the natives. Our bleeding heart state votes liberal quite a bit and to these politicians/DNR/etc, siding against native americans is suicide.
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On a positive note the jumbo perch appear to be making a come back. Sounds like the launch boats been hammering em and we had some nice ones come to the boat over the weekend.
Great to hear. Used to really get into them in the winter in the 90’s. Wish it would make it back to that someday.
Our posting on the various websites get us no where fast it seems. All the questions, suggestions, concerns, accusations etc. have all been addressed in detail by us on this and other websites. And yet the discussion never ends and goes no where toward funding the potential solution. (the only one on the table)
If it’s not worth a $25-$50 investment/gamble to help fix the lake to the 100’s if not 1000’s of you that read this stuff from us, so be it. But after all is said and done, that is shameful as you pull your boats around, spend money on every aspect of fishing and related costs etc. All the while waiting for or expecting someone else to fix it for you. (over half of our funding has come from less than 10 people and less than 200 anglers/concerned citizens have donated any $$)
From now on, if anyone wants to discuss this and get the scoop, feel free to call. I’m tired…and obviously upset at most here but grateful to the few that get it via their $$ support and overall support.
Steve,
Thank you for fighting the good fight. My donation will be sent tomorrow after i get paid. Keep up the good work and I know I speak for many when I say THANK YOU
Donation sent… 
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Donation sent…
X2 – I sent Steve $100 yesterday… And It’s not my first donation but if some of us have to give twice so be it
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I just doubt the DNR or any government entity would be willing to put their political life on the line by doing something against the natives. Our bleeding heart state votes liberal quite a bit and to these politicians/DNR/etc, siding against native americans is suicide
Oh yea it is the fault of one party
It’s a topic that “All Political Partys” want to avoid dealing with.
Which is why the only solution is to take it to court.
I believe that there are many Politicians’who would like to see it get there also.
Steve has been on the front line of this and has been taking alot of heat,I give him my respect for standing up and leading.
If some of you don’t want to help push the cart forward,so be it.
But don’t lay in front of the cart pissing and moaning that your favorite bar is closing.
Zip it up and get out of the way! 
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Donation sent…
X2 – I sent Steve $100 yesterday… And It’s not my first donation but if some of us have to give twice so be it
X3, best $100 a guys could spend.
“I just doubt the DNR or any government entity would be willing to put their political life on the line by doing something against the natives. Our bleeding heart state votes liberal quite a bit and to these politicians/DNR/etc, siding against native americans is suicide”
LMAO- The treaty is a legal contract. By “bleeding heart liberal” do you mean “person that follows the law”? I am assuming you are an adult but I struggle to understand the perspective of people that frame this issue as liberal or conservative. A strict interpretation of the constitution and contract law will create less access for non-Indians to the ceded territories. The “equal protection” argument is a non-starter and not a good legal argument in my opinion. Really grasping at straws there legally.
is there a published copy of the petition to the court from CASST somewhere in PDF(or other format)? I would like to see the cases sited. This area of the law has been extensively litigated in the NW relating to fishing rights for Salmon.
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“I just doubt the DNR or any government entity would be willing to put their political life on the line by doing something against the natives. Our bleeding heart state votes liberal quite a bit and to these politicians/DNR/etc, siding against native americans is suicide”
LMAO- The treaty is a legal contract. By “bleeding heart liberal” do you mean “person that follows the law”? I am assuming you are an adult but I struggle to understand the perspective of people that frame this issue as liberal or conservative. A strict interpretation of the constitution and contract law will create less access for non-Indians to the ceded territories. The “equal protection” argument is a non-starter and not a good legal argument in my opinion. Really grasping at straws there legally.
What I am saying is good luck getting any politicians or folks in the public eye to side against the natives. Don’t need to be a law professor to figure that out.
The will of a state politician won’t matter much in the face of established constitutional law.
http://lawlibrary.unm.edu/nrj/49/3-4/653-706.pdf
It might take a constitutional amendment to change where we’re at. Im not pro netting, BTW. I agree that ML is in real trouble, but understanding the real issues is important IMO before a solution is discovered.
Its hard to “rally” around Fellergy.. maybe the smallmouth petition was able to get more support in a shorter amount of time was because of the type of person that was behind it. While most on ido agree that something needs to be done, crying and kicking and screaming in the corner doesn’t exactly evoke “help” from a lot of folks. I think Steve needs to reevaluate his tactics. . You don’t need to be all gloom and doom, or jump down people’s throats for not knowing every statistic about the lake, sending rude or threatening personal messages to avid ML lake fisherman doesn’t gain support. ..it cripples it. I don’t have an answer but it angers me to have fishermen so all over the place on this issue. We need someone who lives there, has a level head, educated ambassador for our cause. Maybe someone like Tony Roach could get more stream behind him? Although I commend Fellergy for his efforts this far, and having enough spine to stand up to anyone, we as fishermen need to circle the wagons, and get huge numbers in order to get anything done.
Pray for the lake
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Its hard to “rally” around Fellergy.. maybe the smallmouth petition was able to get more support in a shorter amount of time was because of the type of person that was behind it. While most on ido agree that something needs to be done, crying and kicking and screaming in the corner doesn’t exactly evoke “help” from a lot of folks. I think Steve needs to reevaluate his tactics. . You don’t need to be all gloom and doom, or jump down people’s throats for not knowing every statistic about the lake, sending rude or threatening personal messages to avid ML lake fisherman doesn’t gain support. ..it cripples it. I don’t have an answer but it angers me to have fishermen so all over the place on this issue. We need someone who lives there, has a level head, educated ambassador for our cause. Maybe someone like Tony Roach could get more stream behind him? Although I commend Fellergy for his efforts this far, and having enough spine to stand up to anyone, we as fishermen need to circle the wagons, and get huge numbers in order to get anything done.
Pray for the lake
I would be more than happy to bow out of this effort and have someone else lead the way. So far, in 20 years, others and other forms of getting things changed and fixed have got us only to where we are today–no where else. So–as I’ve said, go for it. Take charge now…please.
Matt, I have no problem with you or anyone’s opinion of me. But I take exception to you accusing me of being “threatening” to anyone-let alone “rude”–unless maybe after I was falsely or unfairly attacked first. As long as you made that accusation in a public forum, now, please show me and the rest how and when I did and who I did that to, and in the context it was done within. I simply can’t recall doing anything of the like.
Again, if one doesn’t speak to the facts, which is, simply, doom and gloom, what should be said or done? Again, I say go for it!
You or anyone else that can fix this mess-feel free to start now. After 15 years since this mess started, it will be good to see someone, finally, getting it right and the job done. I agree!!
We ( Bill Eno, Bob Carlson and Fred Dally) meet at Red Door every Wednesday morning at 7am. I assume you and others will be there too, finally, and start becoming part of the solution. (many others, including names you bring up here, have been invited but no one seems to ever show up)
As I said, I would more than welcome anyone who can take this over so my life can go back to normal…
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or jump down people’s throats for not knowing every statistic about the lake, sending rude or threatening personal messages to avid ML lake fisherman
Are these things that can be backed up with some sort of proof or are you just spreading lies on a public forum?
Mr. Fellergy,
I think you grabbed onto the wrong part of my message. I Do not intend to name drop, or drag anyones name through the mud…. being the “figure head” of a controversial topic like this you can expect people saying good and bad of what you are trying to do, and the things you say.
Let me clear the air for all those conflicting thoughts on what I said.
I wish I had “sharpied” my name on all the donation cash I dropped off into your drop box over the past few years… maybe then you would realize that I am just as passionate for the lake as you. As you can recall I stated that I am very much appreciative of the battle your are fighting, and commend your spine for standing up to anyone. I simply disagree on some of the post you make online.
A few years back I happened to read a certain article on the star tribune page by a fellow who really opened my eyes to a issue that I never knew was there.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/blogs/135988013.html
Since that day, that article inspired me to help out in some fashion or another. I spoke to every ear I could find and told the story of your uphill battle against people who wont listen to the people. And if I lived in the Bran. Lakes area you can bet your rear that I would be right there beside you “fighting the good fight” as folks on here like to say. Unfortunately I live a couple hundred miles away so I am unable to meet you guys on Wed. Mornings for coffee and strategy. Trust me… wish I did live up there.
I simply wanted to vent some frustration from fellow fishermen from the area telling me “its pointless” “there’s no hope” or “no solution to the problem”……. Well Steve I do agree with you on this point…… if everyone gives up…or does nothing.. says there is “no solution” and leaves it up to the state…… The lake will slowly dwindle to nothing.. property values will plummet… no launches… no tourneys… no tourism… no resorts…..
Next time Im up the lake ……..surely sometime this Jan. I will double my donation and sit down with you Steve and whoever else.. wherever you guys meet and be all ears to what you think the next best move is.
-MS
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