End that Mille Lacs “hooking mortality” scam!

  • joey678
    Posts: 7
    #1289678

    MILLE LACS ‘HOOKING MORTALITY’ SCAM: PUNISHING ANGLERS FOR CONSERVATION?

    By Joe Fellegy (Outdoor News — March 15, 2013)

    Catch-and-release fishing—anglers unhooking and letting fish go—is a given in Minnesota’s sport-fishing world. Live-release is positively embraced by conservationists, tournament pros, and plain-folks anglers. And it’s used by managers to influence fish numbers and sizes.

    Outside DNR’s Mille Lacs treaty management and its annual “safe allowable harvests” (quotas), where is “hooking mortality” a big issue? When calculating walleye harvest at Mille Lacs, anglers are assessed estimated hooking-mortality—pounds of walleyes that die via release. Those thousands of guesstimated release-mortality pounds plus guesstimated pounds of kept walleyes equals total walleye kill by state-licensed anglers.
    Think of it. Penalizing a sport-fishing community for practicing conservation—in this case releasing walleyes via regulation! The hooking mortality assessment adds to the hassle, debates over extremist regs, and even fear of possible shut-down at Mille Lacs under treaty management. Unbelievably, the more they’re forced to release, the more Mille Lacs anglers are punished!

    Consider the broader world of catch-and-release. There’s voluntary release, a conservation ethic which took off in the 1960s and 1970s with bass and muskies, and with walleyes in the 1980s. Also, on hundreds of Minnesota lakes and streams, release is required by harvest slots (length zones wherein fish may be kept); and protected slots (length zones wherein fish must be released). Anglers observe minimum and maximum length limits which also require release.

    Whether a voluntary good-sport practice or a management tool mandated by statewide law or by waters-specific reg, a main premise is that most let-go fish live. They contribute to a fish population’s health and to quality fishing. Where, beyond Mille Lacs, must anglers and fisheries managers obsess and worry about minority percentages of fish that don’t survive catch-and-release?

    Under extremist Treaty Fisheries Management at Mille Lacs, especially given this year’s slashed “safe allowable harvest,” there’s heavy focus on the hooking-mortality penalty which could push state-licensed sport anglers over the precipice. (The numbers for walleyes kept and walleyes released come from DNR’s random creel-survey interviews at public and resort accesses.)

    A 15-year exemption!

    Why punish Mille Lacs sport anglers with a hooking-mortality assessment for practicing conservation? It’s got anglers, resorters, and DNR managers worried and uncertain over what should be a non-issue. It’s inexcusable and must end. I’d argue that the Mille Lacs sport-fishing community deserves a 15-year exemption from unnecessary and unfair hooking-mortality assessments.

    After all, through 15 years of separate state and tribal fisheries and “co-management” at Mille Lacs, not a pound of mortality has been assessed on the tons of unwanted northern pike annually “released” by tribal gillnetters. Ask veteran tullibee netters (like me), or DNR fisheries biologists who use gill nets in fish population surveys. Given how toothy pike behave in gill nets—twisting and tangling, often with gills wrapped tightly in net mesh—fair-minded and honest folks might suggest a 50- to 70-percent mortality assessment on often-doomed “released” gill-netted pike.

    Face it. Here’s a real conservation issue, not a contrived one like hooking mortality. Yet, it’s gone unaddressed with no release-mortality assessments. For 15 years, tribal managers and tribal harvesters, unlike state-licensed anglers and DNR managers, haven’t faced possible netting shut-down because of pike-release mortality, a legitimate conservation concern.

    Mille Lacs led on release

    Instead of being hit with unfair hooking-mortality assessments, Mille Lacs resorters and anglers deserve top-rate treatment—especially by state fisheries managers—for their history-making boost of walleye-release in Minnesota. In the early and mid-1980s they inspired a statewide revolution promoting release of keeper-size walleyes.

    Traditionally, walleye anglers released mainly little fish under 12- to 14 inches. “Let ‘em grow up, eh?” Enter big change. In 1984, the Mille Lacs Lake Advisory Association (MLLAA), comprised of resorters and anglers, launched a voluntary catch-and-release program aimed at popularizing the release ethic among walleye anglers. There were Catch & Release “I Do” stickers with a recycle logo and “Over 16 Inches” in bold type. Catch-and-release rulers were distributed at resorts and bait shops—changing the focus from pounds to inches. Resorters displayed catch-and-release honor rolls in their lodges.

    In 1986, through Project CORE (Cooperative Opportunities for Resource Enhancement) the Mille Lacs group worked with DNR to produce a Mille Lacs “Catch and Release” Diary. Anglers could record their release data — date, species, length, location, bottom type, depth, bait, etc. The diary booklets also contained several pages explaining the value of release and listing contact info for local conservation officers and DNR Fisheries offices. Anglers often shared release data with DNR managers.

    The Mille Lacs effort inspired lake groups elsewhere to launch their own catch-and-release programs. Also in the 1980s, the MLLAA teamed with the Minnesota Sportfishing Congress (MSC) and backed legislation enabling DNR to manage outside the statewide angling regs. Thus, Mille Lacs visionaries helped begin the modern era of experimental and special regs, often called individual-waters management.

    Mille Lacs resorters and anglers played a pivotal role in promoting release ethics and release-based management. What an impact! Hey, give ‘em some credit for millions of conservation pounds across Minnesota! And free ‘em from today’s hooking-mortality scam.
    END

    brad-o
    Mankato
    Posts: 410
    #1155377

    Not a scam if you pull a walleye 12inches or less out of 25 plus feet it will die. With todays equipment fish can’t escape our reach. If you do it right everthing needs to be on the table and everyone needs to take there share of the blame. I am guilty of this when I perch fish.

    josh a
    Posts: 588
    #1155381

    Not sure I understand this post. Its a well known fact that fish will die if pulled out of deep water, especially in the summer months. If the DNR is trying to calculate how many fish are taken out of the lake every year why wouldn’t they count the ones that die after release?

    joey678
    Posts: 7
    #1155397

    Guys, of course some released fish are dead or doomed. That’s a given. Nobody denies that some released walleyes, muskies, bass, pike, perch, bullheads, and dogfish don’t make it. The big issue here is how “hooking mortality” guesstimates are used under treaty management and its annual “safe allowable harvests” (quotas). Where else in Minnesota does walleye “hooking mortality” have state-licensed anglers, resorters, guides, and DNR managers on official notice — with threats of more-extreme regulations and even possible shutdown?

    josh a
    Posts: 588
    #1155402

    I’m sure Mille Lacs is the only lake in MN where hooking mortality plays such a large role in yearly quotas. If you look at the big picture though it makes perfect sense, well to me at least. What other lake has as many people fishing it as Mille Lacs does? The shear amount of people catching fish on Mille Lacs must lead to the death of thousands of pounds of walleye every year. This states premier walleye fishery is absolutely struggling to keep its population up and every single factor leading to the demise of the fish needs to be looked at and factored in to the quotas. If you throw out the poundage factored in for hooking mortality and let anglers keep even more fish won’t that just be another blow to the lakes already low population? I get that netting is the big issue but until that’s resolved anglers will just have to do what we can to help

    joeshow
    Posts: 31
    #1155404

    I don’t see a problem. Mille Lacs is in great shape. Excellent fish numbers. The fish look healthy. Why all the fuss? So you I haven’t seen a small walleye on that lake in two years. Big deal. They are probably shy. It’s not like you CAN’T catch a fish in the slot. Maybe you just have to fish all summer to catch one elusive slot fish. But boy, does it feel good when you finally get one. I guess the ML walleye population is healthy. Every picture I saw of a ML walleye last summer looked thin and fit. As a matter of fact I would say they were skinny, just the way I like my women. Not like some of those ugly, fat walleyes you catch elsewhere. I think there is a long list of issues, and I don’t see it getting any better. Red Lake #2??

    nhamm
    Inactive
    Robbinsdale
    Posts: 7348
    #1155412

    Good article, had to read it 2x to get it completely. I think there are some that skim through it and come to predrawn conclusions. To sum it up for me the hooking mortality #’s are overblown and the DNR punishes those who have done nothing but promote healthy CPR practices over the last three decades, while allowing the tribes to get away with whatever type of mortality rates that they encounter on every type of fish that swims into their traps. There are two main players here in regards to who take the fish out, and if each one doesn’t play by the same rules there will be an imbalance, won’t be effective, and an obvious mismanagement by those who are in control.

    josh a
    Posts: 588
    #1155414

    If the point here is that the tribes don’t get assessed hook mortality numbers and sport fish anglers do than I get it, that’s obviously unfair. But, until something changes we need to realize that the rules on the lake are unfair and that’s the way it is. Does that mean that the DNR shouldn’t take into consideration hooking mortality numbers when handing out the safe allowable harvest for sport anglers?

    nhamm
    Inactive
    Robbinsdale
    Posts: 7348
    #1155415

    Articles like this one is the change, slowly but surely it’s the conversations such as this that need to happen to create it and not taking the situation as ‘well that’s just the way it is’ is a poor outlook if you want that change. Mortality #’s should be a factor simply BC it is but maybe not to the degree they are at this point, and should be assessed to both sides if they are.

    josh a
    Posts: 588
    #1155421

    My original response was only directed towards using hooking mortality in the overall harvest numbers. To me, on Mille Lacs it seems like a no brainer to keep track of hooking mortality. You can say they skew the numbers all you want but I know for sure last August there were more than a few walleye floating around on the lake. Should they not count those as dead walleye and let anglers keep a few more thousand pounds? Is taking more fish out of the lake good for the lake? If the only point of this article was to point out another unfair rule that benefits the tribes well than I guess I misunderstood it a little. I thought we were talking about hooking mortality.

    gixxer01
    Avon, MN
    Posts: 639
    #1155422

    A different perspective….perhaps these “overblown” hooking stats the DNR has come up with, are used to help compensate for netting losses. Perhaps, these mortality figures are part of the reason the tribe agreed to cut its take in half. I would rather the DNR overestimate the numbers. Afterall, it helped cut the netting take. I see it as a positive. Yes, our take is lower also, but it is good for the lake.

    josh a
    Posts: 588
    #1155424

    Quote:


    Yes, our take is lower also, but it is good for the lake.


    I think we all need to start worrying about what is good for the lake and quit griping about unfair rules. I get that netting should be illegal and hopefully those laws get passed some day. In the mean time anglers need to do whatever we can to help the lake and if that means keeping less fish so be it. I don’t understand the attitude of saying well the tribes don’t take into account netting mortality so we shouldn’t take into account hooking mortality. In my mind that’s the equivalent of saying they don’t care about the fishery so why should we? I know that’s not the attitude of anybody on this site but for whatever reason the issue of hooking mortality is bringing that out. I agree with gixxer. Why wouldn’t we want the DNR to overestimate hook mortality? With the state that the lake is in shouldn’t they error on the side of caution and allow less fish to be taken?

    bullcans
    Northfield MN
    Posts: 2012
    #1155429

    Some good points here.

    However, maybe there won’t be as bad of a hook mortality this year which is usually the highest in the mid-later summer months because the catch quota may have been already met before the usual time in the summer when this issue is at it’s higest peak?

    Just my 2 cents

    jiggin-rake
    inver grove heights, minnesota
    Posts: 857
    #1155448

    Thin and fit?? That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all week. Nobody wants to catch a thin and unhealthy fish. I know tons of people who are going to diff lakes now because there arent many eater size walleye in mille lacs. Its prob gonna be a trophy smallmouth lake in the next few years.

    puddlepounder
    Cove Bay Mille Lacs lake MN
    Posts: 1814
    #1155614

    Its prob gonna be a trophy smallmouth lake in the next few years.


    jiggin’
    you must not get up here too often, there were trophy smallmouth here when i started fishing mille lacs regulary in 1985. it has only gotten more over run with them since then.
    josha,
    as a full time resident of the lake, i am out fishing almost daily from ice out to ice up. there is the two days a week that i have to work, but i am still on the water more than most. i just don’t see alot of DEAD walleye floating. there are a few here and there, but not the numbers that the dnr uses in the mortality numbers. you see chatter on these boards of 20, 30, 50 fish days, times that by 500, maybe 1000 boats a day, maybe more than that, the dead walleye should look like the dead tulipes in august. joe’s artical is DEAD on, fair is fair, if there is no netting mortality, there should not be a HOOKING mortality. i watch the natives when they are netting, and have seen them shake the pike from the nets, only to show up floating later in the day. when i asked the natives why they are leaving the landing without having there catch recorded, i was told they were going to a different location for that. nobody knows if those fish were even counted at all, and who’s to say that all the pike were sorted out as to not count in the final numbers. i invite you and everybody else up here in april to see it first hand and see for yourself what goes on during the netting, because the dnr is as far from the lake as they can be. there is no accountabilty at all on the states side, the poundage numbers that the natives give the dnr are the numbers that the state accepts.

    josh a
    Posts: 588
    #1155634

    I respect your opinion as someone who lives on the lake and certainly has more knowledge of the netting situation than me. When I read this post originally I didn’t realize hook mortality was being used as another way to bring up the netting issue. I can fully understand that what is being done is completely wrong and unfair. I still don’t see how making the argument that sport anglers should be able to keep more fish is good for the lake.

    Will Roseberg
    Moderator
    Hanover, MN
    Posts: 2121
    #1155867

    I’m with Joe on this one and I’ll even take it a step further to say that in some cases the hooking mortality may be a positive.

    After years of slot limits there is a huge imbalance of large walleyes. I don’t remember exactly where I had read this (Dick Sternberg’s study in the early 2000’s I think) but in a natural setting the typical percentage of large walleyes (over 20″) in a lake is around 5-15% depending on many factors. Mille Lacs was actually on the high side of this scale because it is such perfect walleye lake; however, because of the treaty management philosophy (not based on sound fisheries biology) the percentage of walleyes over 20″ in Mille Lacs was at well over 30%. Keep in mind that this was probably 10 years ago and I expect that it is currently more out of balance. Given the strict slot the only possible way to remove any of these larger walleyes and bring the lake back closer to it’s optimal balance would be for hooking mortality to remove some of the larger fish.

    gizmoguy
    Crystal,MN
    Posts: 756
    #1156475

    The netters should be required to bring in all northern pike caught in their nets. Based on the size structure of the pike the pike quota would be reached long before the walleye quota. That would shut down the netting for the year. That is the main reason they get rid of them. If not, a pike released from net mortality should be applied just like it is to the non-net crowd.

    Tbone
    Stillwater, MN
    Posts: 178
    #1156598

    Let’s also be perfectly clear that not every fish caught in 25′ plus of water is going to die. If you don’t handle the fish properly could could catch it in 3′ of water and kill it, even in cold water. Not near as many fish die from hook mortality than is suggested. Mille Lacs if full of very ethical sportsman that know how to handle fish and get them back in the water quickly and safely.

    I agree 100% with Joe, hook mortality is BS! Fish die of many different causes, but we the sport anglers are taking the hit for all those reason

    crossin_eyes
    Lakeville, MN
    Posts: 1379
    #1156701

    T-Bone,
    I don’t disagree that 100% of the people here on this site (and others) that fish Mille Lacs respect the fish they catch and treat the fish responsibly. But there is a very large number of folks that fish that lake, and I’ve personally witnessed many, many folks mis-handle those fish. So let’s not get all high and mighty about how the hook and line angler doesn’t kill any fish. Fact is, we are live bait rigging and handling anywhere from 20-50 fish a day per boat some days. Even if we only kill 1 or 2 out of 50 by accident, it’s a low percentage. But multiply that x 500 boats per day and it’s a lot of floating walleyes.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22538
    #1156811

    To Joe’s point…. with a 2″ slot this year, what does that do to “hooking mortality” this year ??? Shoots it through the roof… again, doubling up on the hook and line angler.. not only can’t keep you it, but throw it back and they count it in your quota as hook mortality… BULLCRAP

    Tbone
    Stillwater, MN
    Posts: 178
    #1157114

    Quote:


    T-Bone,
    I don’t disagree that 100% of the people here on this site (and others) that fish Mille Lacs respect the fish they catch and treat the fish responsibly. But there is a very large number of folks that fish that lake, and I’ve personally witnessed many, many folks mis-handle those fish. So let’s not get all high and mighty about how the hook and line angler doesn’t kill any fish. Fact is, we are live bait rigging and handling anywhere from 20-50 fish a day per boat some days. Even if we only kill 1 or 2 out of 50 by accident, it’s a low percentage. But multiply that x 500 boats per day and it’s a lot of floating walleyes.


    First off I NEVER said we don’t kill ANY fish.

    Secondly are you telling me you kill at least one fish everytime you go out on the 20-50 fish days…possibly more than one a day. Wow, I can’t remeber the last time I had to let a dead fish float. Now I’ll agree there are many people who don’t know how to handle fish, but those folks are not catching 20-50 fish a day either.

    Next time you hear on the news, or the paper or even word of mouth “massive fish kill on Mille Lacs” I challenge you go out to the flats and look at the dead fish. 50-75% of the dead fish aren’t even walleyes, they are carp and tulibee. I do a count everytime I head to the mud(8 mile plus run) and I have never even come close to getting 40% of the dead fish being walleyes.

    crossin_eyes
    Lakeville, MN
    Posts: 1379
    #1157278

    I’m just saying that if I boat 50 fish out of 30 feet of water on a 90 degree day, that there is a great likelihood that one or 2 might die. Just because you don’t see your fish float, doesn’t mean they don’t.

    But I don’t disagree with you on the carp and tullibee either. When people see white bellies floating, they think walleyes, but it’s usually not.

    puddlepounder
    Cove Bay Mille Lacs lake MN
    Posts: 1814
    #1157638

    i have been on the water many, mondays, tuesdays and wednesdays after weekends with two or three tournaments and all the other people fishing and HAVE NOT seen mass amounts of floating WALLEYE. you would think there would at least be enough fish floating to cause some conscern using the numbers that the dnr is using. that just ait happening from what i have witnessed around the lake. hooking mortality is a scam the way they are using it here on mille lacs. some fish do die after being caught, i don’t think it is as high a number as we are being penalized for. even in july and august i am not seeing DEAD WALLEYE after a weekend of good fishing.

    Derek Hanson
    Posts: 592
    #1157738

    Guys- Many fish that die after release don’t stay afloat. Many, many fish sink to the bottom when they die. I have seen this many times, and have talked to others who have to using under water cameras.

    Pulling fish from deep water in the heat of the summer is horrible for the fish, any species. Hooking mortality is FAR from a scam.

    puddlepounder
    Cove Bay Mille Lacs lake MN
    Posts: 1814
    #1157798

    fish are no different than a person that has drowned, they sink to the bottom, the body starts to decompose and gases build up and wella, floating person, or fish in this case. this process, when it happenes in warm water, can create enough gas in the body to float it in a day or three. basic biology. they even found the guy that was in mille lacs all winter. turned up in may, after the water warmed up.

    josh a
    Posts: 588
    #1158660

    The reality is that even on a fishing based website spring dog poop generates far more of a buzz than any netting or “scam” taking place on Mille Lacs. If fisherman won’t support your cause its gonna be real hard to convince anybody else too. I’m sure I’ll get criticized for saying that but that is the truth how I see it.

    josh a
    Posts: 588
    #1159882

    I saw on another site that there is a planned protest of the netting on may 4th out of cedar creek. Is anyone here planning on going?

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