Frustration…and inside weedlines

Hello all,

So I set a goal for myself this year to learn how to catch walleyes trolling. It was a good year to get out pulling leadcore, so I learned a lot doing that. And I’ve been catching some fish this fall trolling at night. But…

I’ve been amazingly inconsistent. Last night, a buddy and I got four fish in our first forty-five minutes. Then, over the next three hours, we only got two. We tried super shallow (like, 2-3 ft deep) and out as deep as 10-12 ft. Nothing really going. That’s been a common theme in my fall fishing: I can’t find a consistent pattern. I’ll whack them for 30 minutes to an hour, and then two hours with very few or none, then a bunch again. What am I doing wrong? I’m varying boat speed, lure color, lure size, lure profile, lure action, rattles vs. no rattles…I’ve only trolled in the fall a total of eight times now, so I’m a definite newbie.

I’ve also got a few questions about super-shallow trolling. I was up on the northwest end last night trying to fish the inside weedlines. Seemed like there was a nice weed-free section, but I couldn’t get a fish to bite, and if I got too close to the weeds, well, then I obviously had to reel up. How close to the weeds do you fish on this inside break? In that shallow water, is letting out more line a good idea?

And in general, what do you guys do when trolling that super shallow stuff–three feet, give or take. The only lures I can find that run that shallow are the original floaters from Rapala…even my Rogues run too deep some of the time.

Uff da…sorry for the long rant/question, guys, but I’m a bit frustrated.

Often times you are catching those fish in fury as they are moving into feed or back out to rest. They will continue to move in and out so these fury’s are quite common. Best thing you can do is try to find similar places along the weed edge where you caught fish previously as most likely larger schools of walleyes are using a similar ambush point. For fishing shallow on the inside weed edge for example, I would look at using more of a suspended stick bait lieke Xraps or Max Raps, Storm also has some suspending stick baits like the Thundertick that work well. Or a bent lip Shad Rap in #7 or #9 will run shallower as well. Don’t be afraid to cast and area where you are catching fish, those suspending jerk baits like Xrap or Max Rap do not dive that deep so you can often times cast into the weed line and retrieve without fouling your lure. A consisent night of fall trolling is very rare often times you are in lull’s and fury’s so I don’t think your doing anything wrong, just adjust a little bit.

Sounds par for a night fishing excursion with no moon conditions. Dont get discouraged, I live here and don’t even fish those conditions. Can be ok but generally not.

The one other thing that I might mention is the length of your trolling runs. If you are trolling a section of shorline that is 1 mile long, and contact 2 or 3 fish in one small area, turn back around on them and get back on them again fast. Too many people, myself included sometimes, will keep going in one direction for too long. By the time you turn around and get all the way back down the shore to your fish, 45 minutes has past, and now they aren’t biting.

One more thing…
linecounters are great because it allows you to duplicate a pattern by knowing how much line is out. But they are slow. If you’re on fish in a short area, I like a spinning rod and reel better because I can make a cast out behind the boat and shorten the amount of time it takes to get the line back out. And to help keep track of how much line I need, I’ll tie a bobber stop knot on my line and adjust it in and out as needed.
I’m certainly no expert, but I love to troll. It’s so much more than just letting out line and dragging a lure around. I love the learning part and putting the puzzle together. Assuming I can of course.

I was able to troll right over the tops of those weeds using Rapala max raps. We were able to pull 19 walleyes out of the weeds two weekends ago. they were all between 22-26″ long.
They have a very nice and inticing wobble while ony diving 2-3 feet deep @ 86′ behind the boat.
The only walleyes we caught was when we were over the weeds.

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I’ve only trolled in the fall a total of eight times now, so I’m a definite newbie.

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If that was all this year I am jealous. I am lucky to get out 3 times now.

I think one of the most important factors to fishing success is having confidence in your presentation. As much help as having an amazing resource like IDO can really help to shorten the learning curve there is no substitute for experience to build confidence. As mentioned above it is normal to have peaks and valleys in your catch rate as the ‘eyes are moving in schools. Since it sounds like you are doing all of the right things I think the best advice I can give you is that as you spend more time on the water and experience success it will really help you to avoid 2nd guessing your approach when a lull hits

Another tip to help build confidence in your presentation is to continue to experiment with new lures even when you are already working a school of active fish… This will really help you understand new lures/patterns/colors by setting up a controlled in environment in which you’ve already removed the most difficult variable in fishing – finding active fish

When you say you were varying your speed. How slow can you go and how fast was your fastest speed? What motor are you using to troll with? (Main, kicker, electric?)

-J.

I have had good success starting just off the break before the Sun goes down. I like to troll shad raps or trolls to lures for this presentation. Once it gets.dark I move in to the weeds. Most of my success has been trolling the outside weed edge in 8-10 ft of water. If that isn’t working I move directly over the weeds. This is a pain in the butt with the weeds toiling the hook but if that is where the fish are that is going to be where I am. I also like to very speeds. I have trolled as fast as 2.0 mph or as slow as 1.4. When I troll that slow I usually pulse the rod forward to create a stop and speed up motion with my bait. I like hj’s. Shiny baits when the moon is out. Dark baits when it is not. But that is just me. The number 1 most important factor is time on the water to locate fish. oh yeah…I like to use my electric…but I don’t have a kicker.

What am I doing wrong? I’m varying boat speed, lure color, lure size, lure profile, lure action, rattles vs. no rattles…

It could be that you are changing to many variables in the your presentation and thus moving away from what was working when you get that flurry of action. Trolling is a concept of experimenting with all those variables and then some until a pattern is developed and then replicating the pattern and fine tuning it. Make note of your boat speed, line length out, lure color, etc. Were you going into the wind or with it? As mentioned above, once fish are contacted, continue to go over and over and over that spot replicating that same pattern. If one presentation was working, move all rods to that presentation until the bite slows and then keep one rod on that presentation and have your partner continue to switch things up. Trolling is a game of covering water, but once a school is located, precision trolling should be the concept. Dial it down from a mile stretch to a tenth of a mile stretch to even a hundred yard stretch.

one more thing on keeping your shallow running baits from running too deep in the shallows (2-4ft), let out your desired amount of line behind the boat, say 100′ but adjust the angle of your rod tip in the holder or point your rod tip up in the air (75 degree angle) if your hand holding it. This will manipulate the amount of line actually running in the water and keeep those baits running shallower with more line out behind the boat…
Good Luck

About the length of my trolling runs: I’ve generally kept them pretty short, and if I do catch a fish, I go for a few more minutes (five max) in the same direction I was trolling before zipping around and going back through. This is how I’ve had most of my flurries, actually. One of the fun thing about learning this fall trolling stuff is how uncanny it is (to me, a least) how, on an apparently nondescript stretch of water, one location will hold a bunch of fish. And how it’ll hold them time and time again. I’ve been out on the water 8 times now since Sept. 29, and I’ve got two icons on the GPS where I’ve caught six walleyes…literally ON the same icon, two weeks later, there’ll be fish again. Last night we popped a double on the EXACT same spot where I caught four last Saturday (note to self: I should probably anchor up on these and cast raps or bobbers w/ minnows).

About what I’m trolling with: We’ve only got a 90 horse Merc, which trolls about 2.1 on flat calm water. To slow down, I will put one or two anchors down and the bow mount; doing so gets me down to 1.2 or so. It’s definitely not an ideal set up, but it (kind of) works. And I’ve been putzing around up around 2.3 and had my best stretches going that fast. So I dunno.

I might be changing it up too much, but when I’m fishing alone (which I usually am), hauling nothing but water without doing something to remedy the situation kind of drives me crazy.

I was looking down into the weeds last night…they were literally JUST under the surface. In fact, the depth finder wouldn’t even register a reading until they thinned out a bit. I tried trolling over the thinned-out weeds but couldn’t even get the line out without catching a weed. I might pull out the wallet to pick up a few of those Max Raps.

And I don’t have line counters for my long-line trolling, but I do put a bobber stop on the line 100 ft up from the leader (I’ve done WAY better on the rods with a 6 ft mono leader between the lure and the braid).

Anyways, all I can say is THANKS, guys for all the advice. It’s good to hear that I’m not completely screwing this up.

There are a couple other things you can do to slow down. A 5 gallon pail with some holes in the bottom tied off each back corner, or even better if you have it, is a drift sock tied on the bow eye.
The other thing you can do with the bow mount is to aim it in reverse and turn it on.
I’m heading up tomorrow for a few days. I can’t wait!!

Way too much personal stuff in here. My post was meant as a PM to a member. I’ll just edit.

My comment is that I’d look at weed fouling 2 ways.

1st. Go to mono & it’s increased diameter keeps the plugs higher in the water column.

2nd. This is 180 degrees from using mono & that is to use braid to feel better when you are fouled. I have trolling rigs set up both ways. Being a south end guy the weed lines for me are not my prime spots. Too many rock reefs as my 1st option. I do trailer up to Terry’s thogh and hit the NW corner some very late in the year.

Fishing the wind can help with shallow water trolling. Think it helps with the fish getting spooked by the boats so easy. A nice breezy on a shoreline is nice and has produced some very good bites for me. 3 to 4’ers can work to but will give you a work out in a hurry and make for some very challenging boat control. Have had a few nights in those less than ideal conditions where the fish go but us guys in the boat are more just holding on for the ride than enjoying a evening of fishing.

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We’ve only got a 90 horse Merc, which trolls about 2.1 on flat calm water. To slow down, I will put one or two anchors down and the bow mount; doing so gets me down to 1.2 or so.

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There are some nights you can rumble through shallow water with your 90 and the fish won’t care. Most nights you will be spooking fish. Getting down to 1.2 is not slow enough some nights. You can adjust by making big S turns or knocking the motor out of gear and slow to a stop then pop in gear for 5-10 seconds and repeat. Personally, if I’m in water less than 6 feet I like an electric. At the very least a kicker will improve your boat control speed by leaps and bounds.

-J.

One trick you can do is use heavy mono. (like in the 12-15 pound range.) You can let out a ton of line and still have that lure just under the surface. That same lure with a super line would be digging bottom in the same locations with the same amount of line out. On calm nights or when the fish have spooked, it a great way to get that lure WAY away from your boat in skinny water.

-J.

Thanks for the advice, Jon. I think the next time I’m up I’ll try pulling with the electric if it’s calm enough to let it work. And I’ll try slowing way way down if they’re not hitting it at faster speeds.

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Often times you are catching those fish in fury as they are moving into feed or back out to rest. They will continue to move in and out so these fury’s are quite common. Best thing you can do is try to find similar places along the weed edge where you caught fish previously as most likely larger schools of walleyes are using a similar ambush point. For fishing shallow on the inside weed edge for example, I would look at using more of a suspended stick bait lieke Xraps or Max Raps, Storm also has some suspending stick baits like the Thundertick that work well. Or a bent lip Shad Rap in #7 or #9 will run shallower as well. Don’t be afraid to cast and area where you are catching fish, those suspending jerk baits like Xrap or Max Rap do not dive that deep so you can often times cast into the weed line and retrieve without fouling your lure. A consisent night of fall trolling is very rare often times you are in lull’s and fury’s so I don’t think your doing anything wrong, just adjust a little bit.

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Cal is exactly right! I would add that when trolling shallow, you surge the bait lightly and let the rod tip fall back on a tight line and allow the bait to raise and stay above the weeds. It takes practice, but once you find the bait and perfect the technique to keep it on the high side of the weed or rock you should be rewarded! It has taken me 30+ years to do this and I am still learning!