Leadcore Equation Question?

Hypothetically Speaking:

If I’m running a deep diving crank bait such as a Deep Thunder Stick Jr. and I’m running a 50’ leader of 10lb Mono and 4 colors of Lead( for argument sake, let’s say 5’ a color so 20 feet).

If said crank bait dives to 8 feet with 50 feet of mono. Then you add 4 colors (120ft as each color of lead is 30ft). Is the max depth achieved 28 feet? Or do you need to take into account the amount of total line out (50’ + 120’ of lead)?

Heading up to Fisher’s Resort next week! Can’t wait!

You add 5 ft of depth per color at 2mph plus what ever the bait dive curve is with 50ft of 10lb mono line.

On harder diving baits you will get a little extra depth but rule of thumb is take your dive curve for the leader then at 2mph add 5 feet for every color of lead.

#5 shad rap on a 30′ Trilene XT 10lb leader plus 4 colors of lead at 2mph will get you at 27′. Run one with this and play with your others.

Also very speed dependent. Slower you go the deeper you bait goes. Speed up to swing your baits up.

I went to a Tony Roach seminar on lead core earlier this spring at Joes and he said that you would not add the full amount that the lure should dive on to the lead core equation. He was saying for something standard like a salmo hornet it only brings the line down a few inches further from the depth of the lead core, and for a deep diver, maybe a couple feet at best, but definitly not the full amount. He said that the lead core line will actually pull up on the lure. I think the easist thing to do would be to run line out until you hit bottom at a known depth and then figure out the equation from there.

Quote:

---

I went to a Tony Roach seminar on lead core earlier this spring at Joes and he said that you would not add the full amount that the lure should dive on to the lead core equation. He was saying for something standard like a salmo hornet it only brings the line down a few inches further from the depth of the lead core, and for a deep diver, maybe a couple feet at best, but definitly not the full amount. He said that the lead core line will actually pull up on the lure. I think the easist thing to do would be to run line out until you hit bottom at a known depth and then figure out the equation from there.

---

That would be why the guys above only figured in the dive curve for the length of the leader and not the entire length of leader and lead core.

Quote:

---

Hypothetically Speaking:

If said crank bait dives to 8 feet with 50 feet of mono. Then you add 4 colors (120ft as each color of lead is 30ft). Is the max depth achieved 28 feet? Or do you need to take into account the amount of total line out (50’ + 120’ of lead)?

Heading up to Fisher’s Resort next week! Can’t wait!

---

Take your leadcore depth(5′ per color at 2mph) and then the dive depth of the crank at the given length of your leader. A few weeks ago I was trolling in 27fow, running a #5 Shadling @150′(4 colors & 30′ leader) I would hit nick bottom once and a while when that rod was on the inside of a turn.

Quote:

---

Hypothetically Speaking:

If I’m running a deep diving crank bait such as a Deep Thunder Stick Jr. and I’m running a 50’ leader of 10lb Mono and 4 colors of Lead( for argument sake, let’s say 5’ a color so 20 feet).

If said crank bait dives to 8 feet with 50 feet of mono. Then you add 4 colors (120ft as each color of lead is 30ft). Is the max depth achieved 28 feet? Or do you need to take into account the amount of total line out (50’ + 120’ of lead)?

Heading up to Fisher’s Resort next week! Can’t wait!

---

Your logic of is correct for determining very close to the depth you want to run. However, while using this equation puts you in the ballpark there are so many variables at play that getting things perfectly dialed in is actually very much an artform as well as a science. Speed, line resistance, bait resistance, how far above the water surface your rod is when trolling, etc all can have small influences.

Probably the most common mistake I see people making when trolling cranks is to rely too much on their line counter. If it says 140′ they assume that is exactly how far the lure is behind the boat. This is very common misconception, but the truth is that line counters are not 100% accurate. Most frequently the cause is having less than a full spool of line (smaller diameter each rotation) and with leadcore because of how fast it fills up your reel the counter actually becomes less accurate the more line you let out. The easiest way to check (other than walking it off on shore) is to count colors when you let the line out the first few times before even looking at your line counter. You may be surprised to find out that the actual distance shown on your line counter is more than you expected and also different for two separate rods. Case in point last year I was fishing with a friend who had his own leadcore rod but he uses a smaller diameter reel than I have on my rods so when we each had let out 4 colors of lead his counter said he was 40′ further than mine. Understanding of true distance back for each rod will sigificantly help you to repeat a pattern once you find one that is successful. The steps that serious tournament anglers take to ensure that their pattern is repeatable are crazy sometimes.

Another good trick that I would give to anyone who is just learning to pull lead would be to use a rock pile to find out exactly how deep your lure is diving. Start by driving over it to determine the depth at which it tops out (say 17′) Now let out exactly the distance of line that you predict will get you down 17′ and troll over the rockpile at 2 mph. If you do not hit rocks let out more line and if you do hit rocks reel in some line. Repeat this pattern until you find the exact depth your lure runs at 17′. Then if you want to learn even more try the exact same process at 1.75 mph and 2.25 mph. Try this approach with multiple lures and make your own log books if you really want to get dialed in.

As with any other style of fishing its a continual learning process, but hopefully these couple tips will get you started in the right direction. Good Luck and say hello to Suzy at Fishers for me!

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I went to a Tony Roach seminar on lead core earlier this spring at Joes and he said that you would not add the full amount that the lure should dive on to the lead core equation. He was saying for something standard like a salmo hornet it only brings the line down a few inches further from the depth of the lead core, and for a deep diver, maybe a couple feet at best, but definitly not the full amount. He said that the lead core line will actually pull up on the lure. I think the easist thing to do would be to run line out until you hit bottom at a known depth and then figure out the equation from there.

---

That would be why the guys above only figured in the dive curve for the length of the leader and not the entire length of leader and lead core.

---

Right. He specificly said this was not correct, and that the dive curve for 50 ft of mono or however many feet you are using would not be the same after the lead core. his examples were with 40-50 ft leaders and using something like deep diver that claims 15-20feet running depth. Again he said this would only add like 2-3 extra feet from the lead core. Just passing on what he had said.

Super post, Will! I’ll add one more factor:

Quote:

---

using this equation puts you in the ballpark there are so many variables at play that getting things perfectly dialed in is actually very much an artform as well as a science.

---

Most people (including myself) do not take the time to program the offset in their depthfinder. So, your depthfinder reads 27 foot. But in reality, that is 27 ft under your transducer – not from the surface of the water. One more piece of the puzzle to take into account. In some cases this can be well over a foot!

-J.

Consumer GPS units are not exactly precision instruments either. Mine don’t typically agree with each other. Are you really going 2 mph or is it 2.2mph or 1.8mph??

Fortunately getting in the “ballpark” is usually good enough.

and throw your formula out the door when the fish bite at 1.7 or 2.6 or…

-J.

Thanks for all the tips. I’ve pulled my share of lead on the river so that’s not new. I’ve just never used 50 foot leaders. Is it necissary or can you get by with less?

I run a 6-7 foot leader on all LC rods. River, Mille Lacs, don’t matter.

Hand hold that rod and pump the action all the time and you will catch fish 5-1 over the rod in the rod holder.

-J.

Quote:

---

Thanks for all the tips. I’ve pulled my share of lead on the river so that’s not new. I’ve just never used 50 foot leaders. Is it necissary or can you get by with less?

---

I run 30′ leader just to keep the counting distances easier because lead is 30′ per color as well atleast this sounds good in my head….. Also a lot of your smaller baits dive 5 feet on a 30 foot leader. Like some one else posted your counters tend to be off quite a bit with lead. My accudepth 47s have 100 foot 17lb mono backer, full core of lead, and 30′ leader and with my leader and 4 colors out my counter reads 172 and actual line is 150.

tony roach only runs 7 to 10 foot leaders, that is why the dive curve does not apply

What is typical- put on the full spool of lead or just 5 or 6 colors?

Quote:

---

What is typical- put on the full spool of lead or just 5 or 6 colors?

---

It depends on how deep you want to troll. On Mille Lacs – you will not need more than 5-6 colors because the lake is less than 40 feet deep. You’re better off from a financial standpoint to save your leadcore line and use mono backing.

This is a really good thread and I’ve thought about these leadcore equation questions and leader lengths many, many times. Here are my thoughts on it as I’ve experimented throughout the years.

In regard to what size leader is best with your leadcore line… I feel it depends on your presentation and the fishing conditions. I can see where a shorter leader may give you more benefits if you’re trolling in and around structure and/or contour trolling where you want your crankbaits to be close in proximity to the bottom/structure. Leadcore line rounds better and it will follow your boat’s path more consistently versus long lining braid or mono. Having a shorter leader length will help you follow that contour line better than a longer leader and it will also help you detect the bottom or debris on your line better (especially a braid leader).

When trolling leadcore in the open water and when you’re targeting suspended walleyes, I feel longer leader lengths are a better choice especially in clear water conditions. It will help prevent spooking those fish.

I also think the length of the leader depends on the size/shape of the crankbait. When contour trolling, it’s more typical to use smaller lip shaped crankbaits or stick style crankbaits. I feel the swimming action of those crankbaits do not differ much based on the leader length. However, when using deep diving crankbaits such as Deep Tail Dancers DDT#11, Deep Thundersticks or Reef Runners I do think the leader length can affect or hinder the action of the lure. Those cranks give off a lot of vibration and their wobbles cover a lot of water moving back and forth which in turn works up the line and having a shorter leader length that’s closer to the leadcore line may take away from some of the action of the lure. I also feel the shorter leader length may affect the angle of the crankbait. Leadcore line trolls in the shape of an “S” and the tail (last part of your leadcore line that’s next to your crankbait) rides up higher in the water column thus affecting the angle of your crankbait. A longer leader will ensure the angle of the crankbait is more consistent and allow that deep diving crankbait to swim as it was designed to do in the first place.

While open water trolling on Mille Lacs, I started using 30-50 foot leaders back about 5 years ago and my success increased quite a bit versus using shorter leaders. I actually stumbled across this by accident. The reason I started using longer leaders was that I was tired of retying shorter leaders. So in the beginning of the year, I tied on a longer leader thinking that would last me for the entire season even if I broke off or had to replace a few feet of line here and there. And viola’ – little did I know that my hook up ratio would increase. I verified this many times using side by side comparisons and longer leaders help me catch more fish while open water trolling on Mille Lacs.

Not trying to kiss any rears, but it would be good advice to read Brad’s other reports as well. I put some of what I picked out of there to use and stuck a 28.25 7 pound walleye on the pond on friday.