Fridays topic

According to a story on our local radio the Farmers Almanac is forecasting below normal temps and above average snow for this winter. Suzuki will be dancing because he gets to use his snowmobiles 2 years in a row. Up here it feels more like fall than mid August with temps in the low 70’s.

I find i’m paying more attention to the weather lately and less to the news (depressing same old stuff day after day). With the scorching heat, torrential rains, wildfires and everything it makes a person wonder. Are we in a weather cycle or is climate change kicking in harder every year? No need to bring the politics into the discussion…both parties are guilty of negligence since the beginning of time.

Are any of you farm guys changing crops or how you plant based on the weather?
Is it the governments job to legislate water usage as they are doing out west?
Will science allow us to change weather in the future?

Not sure how we could change the weather science or not. I do feel like this year there has been more wind than usual and it seems like it’s either sloppy wet with rivers and lakes overflowing or a drought. Also seems like more wildfires than usual. Not sure I buy global warming or anything but it feels like things are changing for sure. I am no farmer so nothing to add there other than I feel for them.

The climates been changing for millions of years and continues to do so on a daily basis. And will continue to do so for millions of more years.

I should be working but I will quickly throw out a few thoughts.
The climate has always been changing since the beginning of time, before man ever walked this earth and it will continue long after we are gone.
Examples are: the north and south poles used to be a lush environment, proof of that is animals with grasses and legumes found in their mouths before a sudden killing freeze.
The glaciers that used to cover half of the US that receded thousands of years ago and are now gone.
Seas that use to be are now dried up and have been so for many years and some of them in recent history.

Ya gotta wonder how so many fossils of water dwelling creatures are found on mountain tops got there, it sure as heck wasnt man tossing them up there!!
Another example is right here in the USA in a state called Nebraska, Ashfalls to be exact where every African animal can be found buried in volcanic ash.
The only way they could of gotten there is when many continents were once all connected, climate change??
Yep, its been going on forever and man is just a pimple on an entire galaxies butt.
Enjoy the ride folks!! you get to witness one of the greatest powers in our solar system at work, and somewhere it is written, you will always have cold and you will always have hot.

Bearcat89 wrote:

The climates been changing for millions of years and continues to do so on a daily basis. And will continue to do so for millions of more years.

x2
The change in weather is just another example of how a humans time on earth really is short but when a human doesn’t remember the change in there past they can not comprehend. People in general do not like change and try to fight against when it is not the norm.

Bearcat89 wrote:

The climates been changing for millions of years and continues to do so on a daily basis. And will continue to do so for millions of more years.

This is the argument commonly used to defend against the supposed CAUSE of climate change. The question posed here, and the more interesting question in general is, can anything be done to maintain our existence as we know it either long-term or short-term (think water shortages out west) and is it the job of governments to try and do that. To do that though we would probably need to come to an agreement about what’s causing it before we could start to solution it…. which will never happen, at least not in America

Personally i think humans have overextended themselves and there will be a reckoning of sorts in the next 30 years

I’m one who believes climate has changed throughout history and will continue to. However, I also believe humans (8 billion people) have the ability to increase those changes leading to some of the extremes that we see.

Within my lifetime the most obvious changes have been the extreme events. It seemed we used to have countless 3-4” snowfalls and .5-1” rain events. Now we have a couple large snow storms each winter, with rain during winter also…along with prolonged dry stretches sandwiched between torrential rains. Some of these are likely cyclical, while some are exacerbated by human development (think the building and development of arid deserts in the west then decimated by fires).

The water shortages are unfortunately going to get political. We will likely live in a world where water is regularly sold, traded, or even fought over in the developing world. I do think governments will have to intervene in places to regulate water usage more. The issue is that the polarization of our government will never let us come together to manage water successfully with minimal impact on citizens’ and businesses’ wellbeing. In our country today elected leaders from all sides do things out of spite more often than seeking ways to protect citizens rights or create opportunities for the people they serve. This will be no different with resource management under a 2 party system going forward.

I often find myself alone in the climate/water discussions because I feel moderate in my views, and that’s just not allowed in todays world for most. I think it’s also worth mentioning that regardless of what the United States does, we are small fish in a big pond when comparing population sizes and the ability to make global changes. It doesn’t mean the changes should be ignored, but we also need to be realistic about our capabilities and undermining ourselves as we attempt to “save the world”

We like to think the things we see in our lifetime are so much more significant than they are. But tornados, hurricanes, droughts have been happening long before us and they will happen long after us. I also think technology (IE everyone having the ability to record video and share it with LITERALLY everyone via social media) has created a false sense of catastrophe. All the things that we never used to see, we now see. But they still happened – maybe even more often in the past. But with the proliferation of information, we all think the worlds coming to and end. It’s true what they say – never have we had access to so much information, yet we may be the dumbest we’ve ever been as a society.

Just some PERSONAL observations from my own lifetime on weather:

In general it does seem hotter in the summers (this year being an exception) and winters seem milder than when I was a kid.

When rain is in the forecast, severe weather seems more common than just a good rain – I see hail much more frequently than I did as a kid.

Snow comes later now than I remember as a kid. And we generally get less of it per year.

But this is just my recollection and it’s 40 years out of hundreds of millions of this planet having sustainable life. It means ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING.

bucky, you’re not alone. I feel the same as you.

To me, it’s been a very nice summer. Not much extreme about it.

Article in the Strib today – What a shocker

Why scientists might cheat (and how to prevent it)
More than ethics or knowledge of procedure, it may be a result of the competitive way we fund science.

https://www.startribune.com/why-scientists-might-cheat-and-how-to-prevent-it/600197635/

My son is a meteorologist. I have been “given” tons of data to refute climate change. My examination of the data, my opinion- no climate change other than the normal progression of this planet. Is man affecting it? Sure. We are our own worst enemy. Thunderlund is right about the media. Weather is more sensationalism now than ever before. People panic around here ( schools in particular) when it’s below zero. Sad how we are teaching ourselves and our kids about how to take care of themselves.
Water WILL be the defining point in my opinion. We ALL need it and there is only so much. T he e time is coming faster than we realize when our precious lakes are going to look like piles of gold, especially to those out West. We all share the same underground aquifers as well. Our lifestyles and pollution are not helping those either. Bottom line, we as a species are our own worst enemy and Mother Nature will handle us in time.

Look up the Milankovitch cycles. We’re still coming out of the last ice age, which means warmer temperatures and rising ocean levels. Does that mean humans don’t need to clean up their act? Absolutely not. We can do a lot better. But we’re not going to be extinct in 12 year either.

SR

If I have learned one thing being around so long is they cannot really predict the weather. The El Nino effect is the only thing I have seen that lends some accurate predictability to the winter in the form of low snow. It would be nice to ride around Christmas for a change!

suzuki wrote:

If I have learned one thing being around so long is they cannot really predict the weather.

I feel like that too, no matter what source I use. Its just spitballing by each weather person I listen to or hear and they are only right about half the time. Basically, they are getting highly paid to make a guess. And when they’re wrong, there’s no ramifications. They just make another guess the next time. And so the cycle continues and the forecasts are less than accurate.

The most obvious change over my span I have seen occurs during deer firearms season. I have been hunting for almost 30 years now and I can remember a good number of seasons with snow on the ground and temperatures consistently much colder than they are now. In recent years, some of the season has not only been on the warm side, but also on the VERY warm side. Like in the 60’s. So warm that you have to worry about a deer getting spoiled if you don’t process it quickly. That never used to happen when I first started hunting.

The more immediate change is drought. Last year was the worst one I’ve seen since living here, and I moved here in 1991. This year the drought is more isolated than it was last year, but its been pretty severe in the southern half of the state since June 1. June and July are by average the two “wettest” months of the year and the last couple years they have been extremely dry and hot.

Very detailed article with actual proof and facts. Long read, puts into context everything mentioned here.

http://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-how-the-rise-and-fall-of-co2-levels-influenced-the-ice-ages/

At the end of the day, when mother nature has had enough of human-kind, she’ll take care of it. It doesn’t work the other way around.

gimruis wrote:

<The most obvious change over my span I have seen occurs during deer firearms season. I have been hunting for almost 30 years now and I can remember a good number of seasons with snow on the ground and temperatures consistently much colder than they are now. In recent years, some of the season has not only been on the warm side, but also on the VERY warm side. Like in the 60’s. So warm that you have to worry about a deer getting spoiled if you don’t process it quickly. That never used to happen when I first started hunting.

/quote]

^^^^ This is so true. Deer hunting in my youth was always cold and sometimes really cold. It seems like in the last 10+ years we have had more problems with to warm than to cold. Not saying that I mind that. The older I get the less I like the cold.

ThunderLund78 wrote:

At the end of the day, when mother nature has had enough of human-kind, she’ll take care of it. It doesn’t work the other way around.

I think that day is coming sooner out west where virtually half the entire country is in some form of severe drought. We’ve built enormous cities like Phoenix and Las Vegas in the the desert and over-allocated too much freshwater from the Colorado River system. And for what? Golf courses? C’mon. There is actually an idea being floated out there to built an aquaduct from St Louis to Lake Powell which would send water from the Mississippi and fill both Powell and Mead in less than a year.

In the 1970’s I remember reading a study by the CIA concerning the geopolitical impacts of climate change. If I remember correctly, they predicted water as the biggest concern. They compared the fight over oil as an example of what could happen when countries find themselves without enough water to feed their people. There have been countless military conflicts over oil to drive an economy. Just imagine the lengths countries we go if they are starving.

They also were concerned about to much water in some areas of the world. The migration in the US to higher ground would allow people to gradually adjust but that’s not the case in many parts of the world.

That was 50 years ago. Some of their predictions are starting to show. My concern is what will happen in the next 50 or 100 or 500 years. I won’t be here to see it, but I want future generations to enjoy their lives the way I have.

not taking a poke at gimruis at all but his reference to the meteorologists getting paid big bucks to be wrong is a job i wouldnt want.

i agree with him its frustrating as all get out when they arent even close to there predictions are. point is mother nature is gonna do what mother nature does….a little shift in what she wants can make a weather person look foolish!!!! ya just cant predict what mother nature does.

My son deals with that every nite with clients they forecast for. You can’t “accurately” predict the weather most times. We just do NOT have the capability to do that. Meteorologists do the best they can, with the tools they have and we go from there. It’s the sensationalizing of what is basically “just weather” that gets to me. Yes it’s gonna be cold, dress warm, be smart, yes it’s hot out, bring water, stay hydrated…… THat’s all I need to hear
Dang, deleted that Climate Change video, oh well

Not gonna wade into the political aspect of this, but its pretty clear to me that Minnesota winters are getting milder. Both backed up by many anecdotes and data from there DNR: https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/climate/climate_change_info/climate-trends.html

glenn57 wrote:

not taking a poke at gimruis at all but his reference to the meteorologists getting paid big bucks to be wrong is a job i wouldnt want.

i agree with him its frustrating as all get out when they arent even close to there predictions are.

Its called weather terrorism at my house!

Umy wrote:

My son deals with that every nite with clients they forecast for. You can’t “accurately” predict the weather most times. We just do NOT have the capability to do that. Meteorologists do the best they can, with the tools they have and we go from there.

I can appreciate that Umy. I’m glad you chimed in with this information. I realize that its not an exact science. Maybe its more so the messaging and communication of it instead that’s the problem. Treading a little lighter when it comes to predictions might be beneficial.

Iowaboy1 wrote:

Ya gotta wonder how so many fossils of water dwelling creatures are found on mountain tops got there, it sure as heck wasnt man tossing them up there!!
Another example is right here in the USA in a state called Nebraska, Ashfalls to be exact where every African animal can be found buried in volcanic ash.
The only way they could of gotten there is when many continents were once all connected, climate change??

You guys ever learn about “Continental Drift” in school? This is part of the reason you see the things you mentioned because the continents used to be in a different location and have been moving.
Weather is constant change. The water situation out West is mind numbing. Those vineyards are using millions of gallons of water where they shouldnt be planting stuff that wouldnt grow without irrigation. I believe that anywhere. Much of the area where I live the soil is so sandy that its terrible ground for most row crops because it dries up so quickly and really susceptible when there is droughts.
Every farm around here has multiple irrigation systems that run 24/7 so they can grow corn whereas they normally wouldnt. They are taking so much water out of the aquifers and I worry one day we will have serious issues because of it.
Remember all the talk about the hole in the ozone layer and how that was going to be the death of everyone? Haven’t heard a thing about it in decades.
The water issue out West could easily be solved by desalinated the Pacific Ocean yet no one wants to invest significant dollars to do it, they would just rather try to convince people to pump it from the great lakes or the mississippi.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Those vineyards are using millions of gallons of water where they shouldnt be planting stuff that wouldnt grow without irrigation. I believe that anywhere.

I went to a vineyard in Peru several years ago where it literally NEVER rains and they irrigated everything with drip irrigation. There was literally no water wasted and they controlled the amount it received down to the very last drop. They laughed at me when I asked them about the sprinklers we use here.

That was a real eye opener on water usage when I was there.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Remember all the talk about the hole in the ozone layer and how that was going to be the death of everyone? Haven’t heard a thing about it in decades.

Remember the Montreal Protocol?

Reef W wrote:

Remember the Montreal Protocol?

Yeah, but since it was in such panic from climatologists, etc they now monitor its size very closely and what they found is it gets bigger and smaller all the time.

Dutchboy wrote:

According to a story on our local radio the Farmers Almanac is forecasting below normal temps and above average snow for this winter. Suzuki will be dancing because he gets to use his snowmobiles 2 years in a row. Up here it feels more like fall than mid August with temps in the low 70’s.

I find i’m paying more attention to the weather lately and less to the news (depressing same old stuff day after day). With the scorching heat, torrential rains, wildfires and everything it makes a person wonder. Are we in a weather cycle or is climate change kicking in harder every year? No need to bring the politics into the discussion…both parties are guilty of negligence since the beginning of time.

Are any of you farm guys changing crops or how you plant based on the weather?
Is it the governments job to legislate water usage as they are doing out west?
Will science allow us to change weather in the future?

Specific to this question, I think the biggest changes to farming to combat the changing climates are the genetic hybrids. The ability to select genetic traits to help with drought, flooding, disease and pest resistant, root structure, soil type, number of growing days, etc. In MN and the upper midwest the increase use of no-till and cover crops and other tillage practices. The increase installments of subsurface pattern tiling vs the outdated open inlet surface drainage.

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Reef Whooligan wrote:</div>
Remember the Montreal Protocol?

Yeah, but since it was in such panic from climatologists, etc they now monitor its size very closely and what they found is it gets bigger and smaller all the time.

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