Food for thought Professional verse average angler?

Mike W wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>critter 1 wrote:</div>
That might be true on most lakes but on rivers Im not so sure. On larger stretchs of rivers like the Mississippi River Lake Pepin maybe its more of a lake. In the true river portions that can change daily as far as flow and bottom structure I think it comes down to reading the river flow and experience in that environment. I think a true river rat beats electronics and the biggest fancy boat most times. these guys might have only small boats and simple electronics but they know the water they fish. More important in my opinion but I am also a small boat guy by choice, and spend ALOT of days on the river.

Pro versus a local on his home body of water it will level the playing feild a bit. Put them both on a new stretch of river and I think odds favor the pro again. Some of these guys are just plain good at figuring out bodies of water and catching fish. Then again I bet a lot of us would be if we fished as much as these guys on as many different bodies of water.

A number of years ago I wanted to get better at finding fish on pool 2. Part of the plan for that was fish other rivers and fish with people other than the regular guys I fish with. Similar to what travelling pros do on a regular basis. It has made me a better fisherman on my home water.

On a side note Im looking forward to seeing how the pros do this coming summer on pool 2. Not sure who all is fishing the contest this coming June but believe most of them have very little experience on this pool. I bet they figure it out quick and very well.

This comment is right on the mark, Mike. I couldn’t agree more on the fact that fishing a variety of water helps with your “home water.” What tourney is on P2 this summer?

Most of my thoughts have been stated above. But just a few things to highlight. Local guy vs a national trail guy is no comparison. The guy that can go to any lake/river, read it, apply conditions and put a solid pattern together will average better long term successes. Ya, the local guy knows that 1 body of water and could kick butt that one time.

Can’t imagine a local river rat dropping in at The Detroit river and running to The islands or making the run to upper Stclaire. It’s obvious that it’s a matter of having what you need for your application.

As for pros (the elite of the elite) connections/information. These guys are all well above average in skill sets and applied knowledge. Being tipped info gives them a step up on prefishing and their tournament days.

I thought this 30+ years ago and still believe it today. The top pros are not necessarily the “best”, they are just the best financed. I know guys that far exceeded my level, but could never get the financial break to go pro. The rich get richer syndrome. Some pros will get the red carpet treatment, everything handed to them, and they are treated beyond royalty. While a better unknown guy gets nothing but rejected.

I think the second most important thing is electronics. It turns luck into reality. I was in a tournament in laX with a late boat number. Made the run to my spots to find 10+ boats already there. As I idled away contemplating my next move, I used my side imaging for the very first time. In the middle of a channel in the slough, I was marking fish on logs that bee all drive over but never fish or even knew they were there. Pulled a 23#ish bag and finished 3rd. I was fortunate to have been on an early shipment when the 1100 hbird came out. So yes, the latest and greatest can pay to have.

Ultimately it comes down to what you want out of fishing. Is it to go relax and a leisurely thing to do? Or are you super competitive (mostly with yourself) that you need to catch fish in any conditions and on any body of water?? For me it’s very difficult to “fun fish” my brain doesn’t shut down and I can not stop analyzing what I see. I can’t see water, I see a field of rolling hills, ravines, points, cliffs…. and I’m constantly evaluating where the best predators would ambush prey at. A curse when you just want to go have fun

BigWerm wrote:

I think what’s often overlooked when looking at the pro’s is not only do they get there and pre-fish for often a week prior to the tourney, they are usually tied into a local guide, as well as having a team they “fish”/share info with

This is one of the factors that I think play a big role. Even amateur tournament anglers spend at least a day or two fishing prior to a tournament. You have to otherwise you’re just setting yourself up to fail. My folks fish the MTT circuit every season and they pre fish for at least 2 whole days. At LOTW, they pre fish for a week ahead and make a long vacation out of it. It’s a large time investment.

The single most important technological advancement that has helped me is high definition mapping. I never really started fishing regularly on bigger lakes until my family had a modern Lowrance with GPS in 2001.

BigWerm wrote:

in general most serious anglers or semi-pro anglers could compete if given the same resources. I

Hence the reason they are on another level. They most likely aren’t given those resources, they are earned.

Randy, the chess match mind on the water is something that my wife can’t grasp. She frequently says, “I thought that this was supposed to be fun and relaxing?” Usually said when I am frustrated.

Deuces wrote:

They most likely aren’t given those resources, they are earned.

Some definitely are and kudos to those few. Many are privileged by who they know and who gives them the break. Over the years I’ve seen elite level sponsorships given to “up and coming” guys that were awesome on a computer and even better at telling a tale. They were prepped by other pro-staff anglers on where to go and what to do. Am I bitter that I had a earn my way and didn’t get the golden chocolate bar – yes a little. Proud of what I did on my own. But it’s hard to accept that I paid my own way while others were getting salaries for virtually faking what others knew

Randy I did not know you did some professional fishing that’s neat. So from a few of the “professionals” I have met I think the lindners are great Ron miss him already Al, James, I met them and even though they don’t professionally fish as much thought they were the real deal also met Dan Sura I thought that guy was great. I have noticed again not all but it seems like a lot of the local fishing tournaments can really be some rude nerds if you get my drift surprisingly the worst group I met was a bunch of bass tournament guys from a church group. Jokes that would make Moses cry and rudely cut in line to load there boats as they said they had to get to the bar. Sometimes the local yokels if you will think there pretty cool with a sticker on there truck and a 200 hp motor on there boat again not everyone and just some but it seems to be getting worse.

mrpike1973 wrote:

I have noticed again not all but it seems like a lot of the local fishing tournaments can really be some rude nerds if you get my drift surprisingly the worst group I met was a bunch of bass tournament guys from a church group

I’ve run into some jackasses in tournaments too. Its like they think they should get dibs on a spot before me because they’re in a competition. I’m pretty tolerant of other boats fishing in one area but the buffer should be outside of casting distance. Competition with money on the line seems to make some people act more like jerks.

Lotta recreational watercrafts don’t obey the casting distance rule either…

mrpike1973 wrote:

not everyone and just some but it seems to be getting worse.

I don’t think it’s getting worse, but it sure hasn’t improved much. I think the level of awareness increases as we age and have more life experiences.

One thing for people to understand, especially those that don’t know the inside of the industry, is just how difficult it is to make it in spring/fall goods. Fishing and hunting are the most competitive sales industry. That is at ALL levels. From every retail outlet, manufacturing, distribution, advertising, shows, tournaments….to the local guy trying to be left alone to fish “his” spot. It’s a luxury business that we see as essential.

All you need to do is walk the isles of ICAST or SHOT Show to get a glimpse of the 1000’s of failures and see a couple success stories. Take fishing rods as an example. How many manufacturer brands can you name? 10, 15, 20….yet there are 100’s trying to get that tiny sliver of a SKU list in any store.

Same goes for the guys trying to make a living within this industry. Some earn their way by providing a great recognized product or service. Just like most of the pros in tournaments- yes it’s consistent catching fish, but more importantly is their marketing skills. They could be to absolute best at fishing, but if they can’t pimp products, they have little value. I was hindered by living in WI. 1600 ma/pa bait shops, and next to nothing in major market share for this industry. My marketing value is minimal compared to guys in FL or MO. So it’s tough to get beyond the money.
I’ve been fortunate to have met and work with a lot of great people in this industry. Amazing ethical guys/gals that would go to the ends of the earth for you. And unfortunately, had to deal to cut throat back stabbing arrogant sob’s too.

It’s hard to put any type of scale to which segment is worse. I’m not into bashing people and I keep most negative comments to myself. Met James and hung out on Lake MI for a morning. Talked about how his guiding business grew to the opportunities he’s had up to then. One word I can describe him with – class. Ron and Al Linder I hear often described as arrogant. I see their confidence and deep rooted passion. KVD has a schedule that would drive us all nuts. That man can work 30 plus straight days in a row with ungodly like hours.
Tony was one of my all time favorites. His passion to learn and share was indescribable. He spent hours and hours helping others in all ways of life.

I realize this drifted more off topic from the OP, but there is so much more to this industry that influenced what and how people utilize the available tools we have today

Deuces wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>BigWerm wrote:</div>
in general most serious anglers or semi-pro anglers could compete if given the same resources. I

Hence the reason they are on another level. They most likely aren’t given those resources, they are earned.

Sure some are. Most “pro” walleye anglers are still self funded to a certain extent. Particularly if you get into the regional tournaments it’s almost all guys who have successful businesses that allows them the time and money needed to compete. I’m not bashing them, if my life allowed it I would probably consider it myself, but it’s just the facts. The general public often thinks if you fish tourneys or appear on TV that you are raking in the $, and it just doesn’t work that way. Some are, but they are the minority, most tournament anglers are losing money if you did a true audit (Boat, gas, lodging, time off work, food etc.)

BigWerm wrote:

most tournament anglers are losing money if you did a true audit (Boat, gas, lodging, time off work, food etc.)

This is absolutely true. My parent’s goal is to break even for the season after all of their expenses and winnings. That way they can say they fished for free all season long.

You wise, Werm.

Everyone: this has got to be probably the best post I ever asked about. The knowledge and learning I’m getting from this is invaluable. Truly learning things I never knew before. After reading all this just being able to fish makes me happy. I just wish I was not so competitive with myself. I loose the fun in it worried why I didn’t get the fish, have I lost it. Why didn’t they bite Etc.

BigWerm wrote:

Particularly if you get into the regional tournaments it’s almost all guys who have successful businesses that allows them the time and money needed to compete.

Agree. Fishing tournaments satisfies the need to be competitive in some form of sport. Recharges the batteries, fulfills life goals, gets them away from the day to day grind of their regular life. Winning money is secondary. Most have that covered going into the game.

-J.

Jon Jordan wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>BigWerm wrote:</div>
Particularly if you get into the regional tournaments it’s almost all guys who have successful businesses that allows them the time and money needed to compete.

Agree. Fishing tournaments satisfies the need to be competitive in some form of sport. Recharges the batteries, fulfills life goals, gets them away from the day to day grind of their regular life. Winning money is secondary. Most have that covered going into the game.

-J.

But how many started those companies and worked their @sses off to create that opportunity for themselves? Also how many average good anglers when put into those higher level situations wouldn’t be able to handle the stresses that come along with those out of town schedules while juggling their jobs and family lives?

I think we are mostly on the same page here. Perhaps I’m taking it wrong but it seems incredibly unfair to throw ordinary folks a “same playing field” bone when most can’t imagine the $hit that probably goes into a national circuit anglers life.

Deuces wrote:

But how many started those companies and worked their @sses off to create that opportunity for themselves?

Probably most or all of them.

Deuces wrote:

Also how many average good anglers when put into those higher level situations wouldn’t be able to handle the stresses that come along with those out of town schedules while juggling their jobs and family lives?

This is what these guys/gal live for. Without it, they would be into some other competitive pastime.

I’m not implying any of this is a bad thing. Just reality. Take away the opportunity to compete in something is like a death sentence. Many won’t understand. Almost like a drug.

-J.

Jon Jordan wrote:

I’m not implying any of this is a bad thing. Just reality. Take away the opportunity to compete in something is like a death sentence. Many won’t understand. Almost like a drug.

Interesting, haven’t thought of it like that. Which isn’t suprising since I’m pretty non competitive.

Thanks for insight.

Bob P wrote:

Most of the people on this site are not “average” fisherman.

I disagree. There are 17,458 folks on this site. I’m betting only about 10% of those folks ever post anything on a regular basis.

Of that 10%, most of those folks, may be above “average” fisherpersons.

Huntindave wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bob P wrote:</div>
Most of the people on this site are not “average” fisherman.

I disagree. There are 17,458 folks on this site. I’m betting only about 10% of those folks ever post anything on a regular basis.

Of that 10%, most of those folks, may be above “average” fisherpersons.

I’m not sure about that. Consider that there were about 40 million fishing licenses sold in 2020. All of the 17K members here were serious enough to join a fishing group. Most probably fall into the top half of the 40 million licensed fisherman. It’s probably the case for most people serious enough to join any fishing group, they’re generally in the top half.

I’d say that most of the active members here are “way above average”.

Karry Kyllo wrote:

There are many, many great fisherman that don’t have the latest and greatest that could compete with any of the so called professionals when it comes to catching fish.

A friend of mine who lives over in WI is one of these guys. His boat is small and underpowered. His electronics are old and rudimentary. Yet, his fishing IQ is off the charts. Best I’ve ever known – by far. He’s got a real job like you and me, but has won 25 tournaments, including several national events. At one point, he won $88K in a championship event in MN, went home to WI and won $50K at a championship event there only six days later. Almost none of this would I attribute to his (terrible) electronics. The dude is just incredibly ‘fishy’, in tune with the natural world and all its subtle nuances, and thinks about fish like no one else I’ve ever met. He’s also very humble. If he began investing in cutting-edge electronics – which he has been resisting – I fear it could ruin him.

Bob P wrote:

I’d say that most of the active members here are “way above average”.

100% agree. The majority can take minimal info , go to a new body of water and in a day or two put something together. That is way above average!

I’ve always enjoyed sharing what I’ve learned. By far, IDO has the elites of people that have similar goals. I have baled out of many other sites because it’s either brag link or guys acting like they are king turd. All my life I believe trash attracts trash and quality gravitates to more quality. Here you have more people that are willing to give of themselves with no expectations in return. Genuine good people. Now, we all have different personalities and that influences a lot on how we carry out our activities. Like some others here, I am extremely competitive with myself. I need that drug. It’s an addiction that suits me. Others are not as inclined to be so analytical and can turn it off. They can just go fun fish and relax. Doesn’t mean they are any less knowledgeable

Randy Wieland wrote:

Bob P wrote:
I’d say that most of the active members here are “way above average”.

100% agree. The majority can take minimal info , go to a new body of water and in a day or two put something together. That is way above average!

Some of you haven’t been to any recent IDO fishing GTGs…..

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Mr.Beads wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>BigWerm wrote:</div>
in general most serious anglers or semi-pro anglers could compete if given the same resources. I

Hence the reason they are on another level. They most likely aren’t given those resources, they are earned.

Sure some are. Most “pro” walleye anglers are still self funded to a certain extent. Particularly if you get into the regional tournaments it’s almost all guys who have successful businesses that allows them the time and money needed to compete. I’m not bashing them, if my life allowed it I would probably consider it myself, but it’s just the facts. The general public often thinks if you fish tourneys or appear on TV that you are raking in the $, and it just doesn’t work that way. Some are, but they are the minority, most tournament anglers are losing money if you did a true audit (Boat, gas, lodging, time off work, food etc.)

This is correct. Most of these guys made a pile doing something else and fish for fun. Good on them.

Also, just so everyone knows, at least in the walleye world, there is nothing holding anyone back from being in a “professional” walleye tournament. Put up the entry, throw your hat in the ring and you are in.

All of that said, heck yes there are quite a few guys that stand out and are true pros. But on any given professional walleye tournament roster, over half the guys are no different than you and I. Good hooks in their own right for sure, but nothing that separates them from what you were calling Avid fisherman here other than an entry fee and the guts to go after it.

Deuces wrote:

Some of you haven’t been to any recent IDO fishing GTGs…..

Everyone eventually learns that IDO get togethers are a curse from the fishing Gods. Never fails that weather/conditions turn and the bite sucks. At least we all have been in good company