Food for thought Professional verse average angler?

Got to thinking today I sold some surplus gear I had for fishing to me less is more sometimes. So I would say I’m a very avid angler do pretty good on bass in the summer and pan fish. I have 2 fairly small boats, fair electronics and gear and enjoy it a lot. When I first started I thought I needed everything the professionals need and yes it definitely is advertising and wanting you to buy more my fault on that but after I figured out I would not be the next KVD noticed I used less and less gear. So from a guide or a professional fisherman are the rest of us really missing out not having all the toys? It would be fun yes but is it really needed? I see some people in little 14 foot boats with 10 horse motors do just as well as the big boats do. Seen this in a few small tournaments I was in real local stuff if you get my drift. They can get to more smaller lakes and maybe not so worried about a scratch. They say fishing is such an inexpensive sport to start but from what I see it’s almost crazy. Anyway just seeing what you all think. Could it just be what is in the eye of the beholder?

mrpike1973 wrote:

I see some people in little 14 foot boats with 10 horse motors do just as well as the big boats do.

This may happen from time to time, but in general, no the little guys can not compete in the catching category. I have to have the latest and greatest by profession but I honestly wish everyone was on an even playing field.

Lets go back to a 16′ Lund and a Greenbox with no GPS and let the greatest angler win… not the angler with the most money tied up into equipment.

Of course there are people with all of the equipment and no skill, but if you take two equal anglers and give one all the new tech and the other an old boat… the Technology will win every time.

Keep in mind that catching more doesn’t mean you have more fun. Here’s an example. Take a guy with 100k wrapped up in his boat. He’s out alone hammering the fish. Now take a guy with a 5k boat and his small family. They are out catching a few fish here and there. I can tell you both boats are having a lot of fun! Just different kinds of fun.

Nice way of putting it Joe. Thanks! would you say electronics are probably the biggest factor? I appreciate your response.

I have fished with somebody who is far and away the best fisherman I know. He can identify spots I don’t even see. He can cast to a spot on the spot. He uses electronics but that in no way makes him as successful as he is. He wins plenty of local tournaments but was unable to move up to the higher level tournaments. I think the top level pros are really in their own league.

That might be true on most lakes but on rivers Im not so sure. On larger stretchs of rivers like the Mississippi River Lake Pepin maybe its more of a lake. In the true river portions that can change daily as far as flow and bottom structure I think it comes down to reading the river flow and experience in that environment. I think a true river rat beats electronics and the biggest fancy boat most times. these guys might have only small boats and simple electronics but they know the water they fish. More important in my opinion but I am also a small boat guy by choice, and spend ALOT of days on the river.

Sylvanboat wrote:

. I think the top level pros are really in their own league.

I agree with this.

Most regional circuits IMO any good angler is going to have a good chance at winning. One can become pretty good at fishing leech, mille lacs, winnie, etc. Much of it will come down to who has the hot hand that weekend.

Professionals national networks have been established throughout the years, are tried and true, and provides a good base of knowledge for the next body of water they hit.

I don’t want it to seem like there is alot of politics involved, but it seems to me there may be some social dynamics at play at the big level when it comes to certain information one would have to be careful giving and/or receiving, or keeping to your gosh darn self.

I learned to fish as a child with a cane pole and a worm, took a 50 year break, retired to a lake home, took up fishing again. Am probably less than average.

I have a 16′ Lund with most of the electronic toys. Not the newest toys, but relatively current (2 Helix 9’s [si & di], transom mounted 360, powerdrive with ipilot link, all networked together).

It is not a big water rig. With a little care I can be out on most of my local lakes.

Most days I fish artificials & plastics which adds a little more challenge, but I hope to improve my angling skill that way.

I am no way an expert on all the equipment I have on the boat. But, I can generally find fish. That doesn’t mean that I can put them in the boat.

For me it is about the challenge not the catching, 90% of the time they go back into the lake.

Before the 360….

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Joe Scegura wrote:

This may happen from time to time, but in general, no the little guys can not compete in the catching category. I have to have the latest and greatest by profession but I honestly wish everyone was on an even playing field.

I’m not sure exactly what you mean by referring to the “little guys” but having the latest and greatest certainly doesn’t mean an angler will catch more fish or make one a better angler. There are many, many great fisherman that don’t have the latest and greatest that could compete with any of the so called professionals when it comes to catching fish. For whatever reason, maybe it’s other responsibilities or other aspirations, they chose not to become professional anglers. They may not know how to play the professional fishing game like experienced professional anglers but when it comes to catching fish but there are many out there that can catch fish as well as those with the latest and greatest. Skill, talent, determination and other factors have to be brought into the equation as well that money won’t be able to buy.

“I’m not sure exactly what you mean by referring to the “little guys” but having the latest and greatest certainly doesn’t mean an angler will catch more fish or make one a better angler. There are many, many great fisherman that don’t have the latest and greatest that could compete with any of the so called professionals when it comes to catching fish.”

I think what Joe means is that people with small boats and limited electronics can do very well on their local waters that they really get to know through experience. But trying to take that skill from lake to lake especially on larger or unknown waters or in a tournament is extremely tough.

It can be done and some people are definitely better than others, but a real disadvantage without above average mapping/electronics, etc. Breaking new or big water down is extremely challenging and its tough to do any given day even if you have decent equipment. The odds are just against you without decent equipment – like going into a gun fight with a butter knife.

I do a Leech Lake family trip almost every year in the summer, have for over 10 years. I am in no way an expert, but have some knowledge, and I am a good conversationalist to gain more knowledge by asking others that are having success. And being my only really good week of fishing every year, I put the time in, sun up to sun down, rain or shine, unless it is unmanageable, then we play cards. I have come up with a handful of spots, depending on wind direction, temperatures, etc…, and can put fish in the boat most days, although really only on one end of the lake, not the whole lake.

Well, a few years ago, my dad, son and I were coming to the dock with fish everyday, but others were really struggling. The dock boy asked if we could help his dad out, he was a professional Walleye angler and had a tournament in a few days and he was struggling to put a pattern together. We agreed, but when he saw my 16.5′ Alumacraft, he said “no way”, and we jumped in his 23′ Ranger with all the goodies. Well, we both learned a lot that day. He got my inside turns, spot on the spots, and I got to see how all the new technology helps you pinpoint those locations much easier, and even allows you to see if spots are even worth trying or moving on quickly to the next spot.

In the end, he was not a nice guy, likely didn’t have to be but still. He took our knowledge willingly, but offered nothing in return, it was obvious he did not want to answer my questions. But I did learn that new technology is a HUGE advantage, but local knowledge still has a LOT of value. He finished 3rd in the tournament.

mrpike1973 wrote:

Nice way of putting it Joe. Thanks! would you say electronics are probably the biggest factor? I appreciate your response.

I think electronics are key – at least more than high-end rods/reels anyway ~

I’m probably like a lot of guys and I can cast to shoreline structure well enough to catch fish on most waterways… but everyone does that. I think the better fishermen I’ve fished with can find fish off-shore (flats, mid-depth, deep rock piles/weedlines, etc). They really know how to read water and study their electronics. They become intuitive after awhile what to look for (Joe Scegura is a good example of this).

Honestly, I have always struggled with the off shore bite and that has led me to buy more sophisticated electronics because that is where I’ve always been weakest. Has it helped? I would say probably, but I’m still learning. It really takes time on the water, and lots of trial and error, to figure out patterns. And doesn’t mean that you still won’t get skunked once in awhile and the guy in the 14 foot red Lund will get his limit.

critter 1 wrote:

That might be true on most lakes but on rivers Im not so sure. On larger stretchs of rivers like the Mississippi River Lake Pepin maybe its more of a lake. In the true river portions that can change daily as far as flow and bottom structure I think it comes down to reading the river flow and experience in that environment. I think a true river rat beats electronics and the biggest fancy boat most times. these guys might have only small boats and simple electronics but they know the water they fish. More important in my opinion but I am also a small boat guy by choice, and spend ALOT of days on the river.

Pro versus a local on his home body of water it will level the playing feild a bit. Put them both on a new stretch of river and I think odds favor the pro again. Some of these guys are just plain good at figuring out bodies of water and catching fish. Then again I bet a lot of us would be if we fished as much as these guys on as many different bodies of water.

A number of years ago I wanted to get better at finding fish on pool 2. Part of the plan for that was fish other rivers and fish with people other than the regular guys I fish with. Similar to what travelling pros do on a regular basis. It has made me a better fisherman on my home water.

On a side note Im looking forward to seeing how the pros do this coming summer on pool 2. Not sure who all is fishing the contest this coming June but believe most of them have very little experience on this pool. I bet they figure it out quick and very well.

Wow lots of thoughts and ideas here. Locally I do real good but when trying a new lake it takes me 4-5 trips to start even getting a pattern learning it. Electronics seem to be a big factor. A step up for me was going from my 15 foot bass style boat being able to stand up look in the water and fish helped. I love by 16 foot bench style Lund WC but standing in the front all day with a makeshift transom mount trolling motor makes for a long day but I sure love it for pan fishing. It seems the true pros are really in there own league and yes as much as I would like all that knowledge I think it would ruin me I’m to competitive with myself the way it is If I don’t catch fish I beat myself up pretty bad. Plus you really need to sell yourself and for that I’ll pass.

critter 1 wrote:

I think a true river rat beats electronics and the biggest fancy boat most times.

These people or “rats” are a dying breed.

It isn’t just having the electronics, but knowing how to use them and read what you are seeing. I am WAY behind the curve from that perspective, so it is enlightening to fish with folks who really know their electronics and jump through menus to really analyze what they are seeing.

mrpike1973 wrote:

. So from a guide or a professional fisherman are the rest of us really missing out not having all the toys? It would be fun yes but is it really needed?

Nope. Only if it was my source of income that I needed to catch fish would I need the latest and greatest. And to me, that wouldn’t make fishing fun and enjoyable.

My only goal fishing is to out-fish the people I’m with! oh-and to put a 30″+ walleye on the wall!

Deuces wrote:

I think the top level pros are really in their own league.

I agree with this.

I agree if you are talking the best of the best, like a Van Dam or Hoyer. But in general most serious anglers or semi-pro anglers could compete if given the same resources. I think what’s often overlooked when looking at the pro’s is not only do they get there and pre-fish for often a week prior to the tourney, they are usually tied into a local guide, as well as having a team they “fish”/share info with. So while it may look like _____ is killing it on the pro circuit, there’s a lot of guys who could do that if they had the same boat and network of people helping them.

Something I find interesting is comparing bags from the big pro tourney’s and my local league. The pros fish all day for 4 days with days and days of practice on famous bass factories all over the country while my local league has far fewer boats and fishes 3 1/2 hours on a week day night on north metro lakes. Here is a comparison from last years FLW (200 boats) and my league (20 boats): (I excluded the Florida strain bass tourneys since they don’t really compare to our northern strain)
The winner from FLW tourney #1 had 5 fish bags over the 4 days of:
21-7, 18-12, 13-3, 12-9
FLW tourney #2
11-6, 17-10, 12-6, 11-3
FLW tourney #3
14-3, 14-8, 13-5, 12-10
The winning 5 fish bags from my league’s 5 tourneys were:
16.2, 19.8, 11.14, 18.7, 16.8
Speaks well of the quality of our bass fishing and skill of some of our amateur anglers here in Minnesota.

BigWerm hit it. Teams & connections will hasten the learning curve. If I went Cat fishing with BK and he eliminated 95% of the dead water for me I would probable catch a fish. Maybe even two.

Question for the guys with the big bucks electronics…..Do you feel pressure to produce when you go out with others?

For me electronics are nice but if they were to take the fun out of fishing are they worth it? Fishing is suppose to be a relaxing hobby in my opinion.

Ever watch Big League Fishing? I think you all are forgetting about luck. There’s a saying, “I’d rather be lucky than good.” Even when professionals with all the fancy equipment compete there is a huge variance in results.

Dutchboy wrote:

Question for the guys with the big bucks electronics…..Do you feel pressure to produce when you go out with others?

We just upgraded from a Bird 698 to new Garmin 93SV UHD — far from the “big bucks” but still a huge step up. I was showing off some of the stuff to my old man last weekend and he said “well now I guess now you’ll have no excuse to not catch fish.” That statement kind of scared me a little – I’ll definitely feel a little pressure to produce when he’s in the boat. But nothing that I’d let get in the way of a good time.

@dutchboy

I have 2 Garmin’s with livescope. I can tell you there have been times they have helped me locate fish but not neccessarily catch them. Nothing more frustrating then seeing the fish and them not biting. I enjoy the fishing part so I don’t feel pressure to catch more fish.

Outside of pro’s vs non-pro’s is the ability for good fisherman to know when it’s time to move. I think really good fisherman know how much time to spend and the tactics to use on their spots. If they don’t produce, they keep going. I’m a decent fisherman but I find myself sitting on spots too long knowing I gotta go. Or, hammering away with the same presentation because I’m confident in it.

It’s like other sports, though, imho. The gap between the best pro’s and everyone else is massive. I know alot of guys that are collegiate level fisherman but they ain’t gonna make it to the big dance! Myself included.

The gap in the “average angler” class is probably greater. 90% of the fish caught by 10% of the fishermen really applies. There are a lot of days that the guys at the ramp are bitchin about getting skunked and we have limits. But we have bad days too.

Matt Moen wrote:

@dutchboy

It’s like other sports, though, imho. The gap between the best pro’s and everyone else is massive. I know a lot of guys that are collegiate level fisherman but they ain’t gonna make it to the big dance! Myself included.

I think there are big gaps between multiple different levels
– best pros
– average pros
– avid serious – like many of the guys on this site
– semi serious – like me
– casual

Most of the people on this site are not “average” fisherman. They have lots of skills and knowledge. I’m sure they would out fish me under most circumstances. So big gap between avid and semi-serious.

Yet where I go (shore fishing), I out fish most of the other people there. So big gap between semi-serious and casual.

The most important thing for me is to have fun.

Matt Moen wrote:

I think really good fisherman know how much time to spend and the tactics to use on their spots. If they don’t produce, they keep going. I’m a decent fisherman but I find myself sitting on spots too long knowing I gotta go. Or, hammering away with the same presentation because I’m confident in it.

That is always the million dollar question, I’ve had days where I stayed in one spot grinding out a bite an hour and ended up doing way better than buddies running all over, and vice versa. Shoulda woulda coulda always wins!

My 2 pennies…. have fun & learn every trip out regardless of the amount of dollars invested…. I learn something each & every time I hit the water regardless from shore, expensive boat or old jon boat. Electronics are awesome and very grateful to have mapping for new or large bodies of water, but your eyes are still a irreplaceable tool for reading water as well.

Dean Marshall wrote:

My 2 pennies…. have fun & learn every trip out regardless of the amount of dollars invested…. I learn something each & every time I hit the water regardless from shore, expensive boat or old jon boat. Electronics are awesome and very grateful to have mapping for new or large bodies of water, but your eyes are still a irreplaceable tool for reading water as well.

I could fix that for ya, hop in with me sometime. Of course you might find out I was worse then you thought so I guess you would learn something.

Like anything… practice makes perfect. Whether it’s hitting a golf ball or pitching a jig, it does matter. Watching a Bass Pro pitch under a dock from 50 feet away with pinpoint precision, is something to behold. To win consistently in the big leagues, you have to gain every edge you can, from the boat and motor, to the electronics, down to the hooks on the lure. It all adds up, but no matter how much one prepares, sometimes it comes down to just the right place, right time and some good old fashioned luck.

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Matt Moen wrote:</div>
I think really good fisherman know how much time to spend and the tactics to use on their spots. If they don’t produce, they keep going. I’m a decent fisherman but I find myself sitting on spots too long knowing I gotta go. Or, hammering away with the same presentation because I’m confident in it.

That is always the million dollar question, I’ve had days where I stayed in one spot grinding out a bite an hour and ended up doing way better than buddies running all over, and vice versa. Shoulda woulda coulda always wins!

I just need to bring you and a case of beer with me. I only catch big fish with you so you’re my lucky charm!

I just need to bring you and a case of beer with me. I only catch big fish with you so you’re my lucky charm!
[/quote]

Getting pretty thirsty waiting for the next invite! Doesn’t that trip seem like about 6 years ago?!?!