Fishing into career

Mike W wrote:

and I agree completely with the numbers being put up. Most likely wont make much more than working at Home Depot or Mc Donalds. Good chance you will put in a lot more hours than one of those jobs. Plus side is being on the water.

Most of the numbers being tossed up here are very legit. The work year is weird. of 365 days, you end up with about 200 to 240 work days (subtracting days off for family time, holidays, weather..) I have most people want half days, not full. so now it gets more interesting trying to fill out your time.

I don’t think anyone is being negative on this, Its just important to fully understand the business side of things. When you have a home mortgage, the bank doesn’t give a crap about how many bookings you have coming up…just that you have your payment in on time. Fail to make your insurance payment, loss of coverage. Just need to understand the risks

I used to think guiding would be great, but two things changed my mind. The “Groundhogs Day” effect of having a resort, like on LOW in the winter every day is the same as the last. It would be nearly impossible to maintain your sanity through that.
The second was from when my fiance and I started dating. I love to fish, and am usually decently successful, so I took my gf and her friend and her friends fiance fishing on Leech. None of them had fished before. I had been out on Leech the previous 3 weekends and had a good idea of what to do. Baited all 3 of them up and started working a line. By the time the 3rd line was in the water the first had weeds that I had to remove, then the 2nd had a “snag” and lost their minnow etc etc. This continued all day. I was only able to fish for about 1/4th of the time we were out, and I caught 4 very nice eye’s ranging from 16″-25″. No one else caught anything despite continually “losing” their bait. No one had paid a single cent (other than me), and other than my fiance no one has asked to go fishing again…imagine if they had paid me for this “service”!? LOL

Seems most forgot to mention one thing on setting up a guiding business and that is you have to pay taxes, its part of the deal when ever I go to a meeting or seminar on this it is always brought up, not to ignore this part of the business.

You want to know how to make a million dollars guiding?

First, you start with two million dollars…….

If I can add on to the OP’s question….

How much of a benefit would it be to guide, to use the business for writeoffs of equipment needed for tourneys? Assuming one has the myriad of necessary skills to guide.

How many days a year would one have to guide to make it beneficial, if so? This was a thought for me as well, but I can make 2x as much money in my everyday business, and learning the local metro area lakes/rivers isn’t priority, taking the trail to the big waters and big circuits is the goal and guiding would seem to just get in the way. Am I off base?

Nic, at some point you need to make a profit. Continual losses will make it a hobby business and then you loose a lot of write-off. My accountant deals with all of this for me so I just do as he says. I was advised to start it out as a hobby, then go full blown business for profit. That way I didn’t screw myself later down the road.

As for tournaments, same applies. In a hobby, you can write off your losses to equal your earnings. In a business, you can carry over a loss. Again, I’m not an accountant.

Maybe you said it in your response and I missed it Randy (I’m not an accountant either ) but the goal isn’t to profit from either venture.
Just if a guys going to spend the $$ either way what’s the best way to make the money work for you?

nhamm wrote:

Maybe you said it in your response and I missed it Randy (I’m not an accountant either ) but the goal isn’t to profit from either venture.
Just if a guys going to spend the $$ either way what’s the best way to make the money work for you?

Do it as a business. Track your expenses like any other business. Tournament fishing fits right into this plan regardless of whether you guide or not.

Like Randy said though, sooner or later, you pretty much have to show a profit somewhere or the IRS will be telling you whether its a business or a hobby.

GRK You have received a Lots of good advice here from people in the know, cause they have been there done that. One of the things mentioned over and over is to have a REAL Job 1st. Before you try and jump in with both feet. If for no other reason than the money. But beyond the money. Guiding and tournament fishing does NOT have health insurance, 401ks, paid vacations, or a for sure pay check each week. One other way that mite be of help, is to get a job with tackle manufacturing company. Maybe in the plant or better yet as a tackle rep/sales person out in the field. There are and have been a lot of people before you with same idea, passion and desires. That did not make it. I surely don’t mean to rain on your parade! I just think you need to take a REALLATY Check. This Not the e-zzest field to get into and be successful. Listen again to the guys that have been there. Like Joel Ballweg, John Shultz, Randy Wielan, Pudllepounder and Last but not least BK. These guys gave you tons of good advice…. Good Luck I wish you the BEST… …rrr

#1 in my mind is that you have to be absolutely passionate about doing it or you won’t make it work. We’re all a prideful bunch and probably put more pressure on ourselves than our clients do, but that’s what drives us to succeed. Most of us have “graduated” or taken it to the next level, from measuring our success by seeing how many big fish we can catch, to seeing how many big fish we can get others to catch. If you don’t find that rewarding, wait until you do. It’s about you getting them to get fish, not them watching you get fish.

You need to have the drive to succeed and willingly accept the challenge on any given day regardless of weather, because not every day is a Saturday morning fishing show, and often times clients aren’t aware of that. When you pick them up at the dock they often aren’t terribly interested in the fact that it’s blowing 20 mph from the East and the cold front has killed the bite. They just know they booked 6 months in advance, are paying hard-earned money, and have been dreaming about a successful trip.

I feel pretty strongly about saying that most of the guides that I know where I live, are so passionate about fishing, we’re going to be out there doing it whether or not some one pays us to take them, and realistically we are more or less offsetting our own expense by guiding. I don’t know many that are making it solely from fishing. The expenditures are hard for others to comprehend, but it costs a significant amount every year to keep at it. That passion justifies the expenses – at least to us. Finding a spouse/girlfriend that is not only understanding, but supportive towards this endeavor is like winning the lottery.

Another thing to note, is that you have to get over “fishing how you like or prefer to fish” and learn to fish however is necessary on a given day to keep up your end of the bargain for your client. Learn to be a more “complete” angler. This often means being both prepared for and equipped with the appropriate tackle (for everybody) for many different techniques. Many days start out with confidence because “they were here yesterday”, but they aren’t anymore – now you have to switch gears and start over with limited time. With time you get better at it, and learn how to fish more efficiently to capitalize on the short time you have with your clients.

So much valuable advice has been offered by others in previous posts, you’d be well advised to take it all to heart. Speaking for myself, it is absolutely worth the long hours, the crappy weather, the expense, etc… to see someone learn a new technique and be rewarded or to catch the biggest walleye of their life and to know that I made it happen for them. Sometimes just getting someone to look into the water rather than at it, can open up a new level of understanding for them. Getting to meet lot of great people from all over the country is pretty cool too. I’ve had clients from all over the country and almost every one of them has been great.

The rewards are many and great, but if money is the motivating factor, you’re likely going to be disappointed. Best of luck to you.

I just read back over all of this……maybe I should go apply for the Walmart Greeter job

Randy they’d get tired of finding you at the back of the store talking to customers about the features of the rifles for sale instead of at the front of the store greeting the customers.

your probably right

In all seriousness, a guy can make a reasonable living in this industry. I won’t say guiding is a failure, but as you can see from all the comments above, its tough. I’m burnt out in construction and finally reached a point and time in my life where I want to enjoy life. I’ve pretty much closed up my building business and have been full time in the outdoor arena for the last 6 years (full time). I had 184 bookings last year for guiding (Fishing, predator hunting, and turkey hunting), seminars, appearances, Pro-Staff obligations, & sub-contracted bookings. In addition, I hold 4 substantial contracts for trapping (ADC work), still do a few construction projects, started a manufactures’ rep firm, and do a few significant consulting projects. I’m working easily 6 days a week from 3 or 4am to about 11pm every day. Yes, I do take a number of breaks and hop on here.
Joel’s advise on having an understanding spouse is an understatement. They also need to be encouraging, supportive, and have the same drive and vision. After pulling back to back outings and being gone from 4am to 10 pm. I can’t tell you how much simple things mean like a text “Hun, dinner is in the oven keeping warm and take a shower and w3ake me up when you get home” Most wives wouldn’t be that supportive.
One other thing to understand is how long it takes to build a client base. I did the part time gig for years. If I did 5, 10 or 20 a year, who cares. I didn’t and I didn’t need to do any of them. It was more hobby and showing off I guess. When the restate market crashed, I made the change into this. BUT, if I hadn’t been chasing tournaments in the 80’s-90’s and been guiding part time since then, this would have never happened for me. I don’t think its hard to advertise in the right places and pick up 20 to 30 bookings. But your not going to get 150 to 200 bookings without a long paved road behind you.
One last thing to mention. As I’ve started down this road of being a manufacture rep, I found out how many people I don’t know. 30+ years of meeting the manufacturing side of the industry has helped get me started. But it doesn’t give you instant credibility and sales meetings. Everyone cautioned me that it will take 3 or more years to get in with all my buy-group dealers before they feel the comfort level to start ordering. I’m seeing that first hand. This is a huge industry with a few people. Its hard to get in, and the trust is earned over time. I also believe that this is one of the most loyal industries that you can get into. Takes time and a lot of effort.

From my experience…

3 good ways:
1 – obtain a double major in marketing & journalism. Fishing is the easy part.
2 – own a business that booms during the down side of a bite or weather. Employ trusting personnel and go fishing.
3 – marry the “right” partner. One who can tolerate the incredibly unpredictable spending adventures, being away a LOT, just to name a couple.

Oh or win the lotto. It’s America, go make a legacy for yourself and never compromise your integrity. You’ll leave quite the story behind. Good luck

Get a good education so you can find a job that has flexibility. While doing that, start guiding part time. Summer vacation, weekends, after class/work. Unless you live in a box or have financial help, it can be extremely tough to get into full time right off the bat. I’ve often thought about guiding, but then realize I can work some OT for extra money and just go out and guide my friends for free, which is just as rewarding as getting paid to guide. Nothing better than putting your friends on their biggest fish of their lives.

My plan is to Ice fishing guide in the winter and then do open water the rest of the time

Just don’t be this guy….

-J.

Jon Jordan wrote:

Just don’t be this guy….

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-J.

… LMAO..

Fantastic public service videos Jon. Here I thought you could be a pro with only one power pole on the back on the boat. Now I know it takes two.

I have a little different perspective for you Gabriel. If you have a dream then go get it! Don’t let anyone talk you out of your dreams. There will be lots of people that will tell you a million reasons why you can’t or shouldn’t do it but don’t listen. If your “why” you want to do it is strong enough you will figure out the “how” to do it. Will it be hard work? Yes! Is it possible to do? Yes! Will you have to think outside the box to make it happen? Absolutely! If you help enough people get what they want you will eventually get what you want. Dream big!

Dreaming big and reality are two very different things. Growing up in a area where guiding jobs are readily available or coming from a family that owns a resort or has been a guide as a business, is a big stepping stone. If you are a kid from middle America that hasn’t had any fishing experience, and no business experience, it will be very difficult to say the least to break into the business. I am not telling the boy not to dream. I am 52 and still dream big. The one that is tops on the list and achievable for me is, spending winters in Florida and summers here on mille lacs. All can say is dream big, it doesn’t cost a dime and gives you something to strive for. Now is the time to start calling resorts and see if they have a y summer jobs available, a get your foot in the door job and really see if that is what you want to do for a living.

Educated business decisions are the smartest decisions. I don’t think many said NOT to, but many have stated the risks. If you can develop a business plan that encompasses these risks and build contingency plans for them, you’ll be a stronger business man, negotiator, and less likely to fail.

When I stuck my nose into General Contracting and built my first home in the mid 80’s, I sure wish I had all this type of information readily available. The School of Hard Knocks in not cheap

Hey fellas just a update a got a job today in winona and a possible sponsor all in a great resturant called Timbers stop on by for some great breakfast lunch or dinner

Im thinking to should i do guiding or tournaments or both

If you are going to fish tournaments and guide, you need a boat. I am not aware of the local boat dealers in your area, but you need something nice and new. Nobody wants to spend $450 a day and fish out of a old clunker that leaks and the motor might not start. I would suggest Lund, skeeter or ranger as the top three to look at. I did see a few ranger demos on walleye central right in that $70,000 range, you should be able to rig it for about $5,000. Depending on where the tournament is and what style of fishing it takes to catch a winning bag, you need your sponsor to fix you up with 20 or so rods and reels of different types. I understand that you are just a kid and have big dreams, if I remember right, if you face to the west, click your heels together three times and when the genie appears, you only get three wishes so do t waist them. I am glad to hear you got a job, that is the first step in the ultra marathon of life. Its a good thing that you are working in Minnesota and not Wisconsin, as we have that new $8.00 an hour minimum wage. At that rate I can’t think of a bank that won’t back you all the way. This is either one of the biggest trolls on this board in a while or this kid just hasn’t read and comprehended what has been suggested to him. Ya, I am on a rant here, I need some open water to work out a few demons and get my head back on straight. Sturgeon fishing is just a short two months away.

puddleponder – Thanks for the laugh this morning. I needed that!

For being “people persons” some don’t read well between the lines.

I wonder what kind of responses the OP would have gotten if post was “How to become a Guide/Pro for teens”.

I can appreciate the naivety, better than those here’s a lake map now you guys show me where to fish posts. Those drive a guy nuts

Be very careful about turning a passion into a job.
Get an education first

Joel Ballweg wrote:

puddleponder – Thanks for the laugh this morning. I needed that!

…X2. I dam near spilled my coffee when reading. … …rrr

I don’t know if anyone else remembers this, but years ago (back when I first started guiding) another fellow IDO’er was in a similar position.
He went out and purchased a pile of equipment and proceeded to announce that he was officially open for business as a fishing guide.
That was pretty much the last time I ever saw a post from that young man.
I could be wrong but do not believe his guide business ever got off the ground much less succeeded.

There is no way I would ever tell anyone to give up their dream.

On the other hand, proceeding with caution and putting a good, solid plan in place which includes building a foundation from which you can fall back on, simply cannot be over stated.

There is literally a slew of people who have set there sites on stardom on the tournament trail, mortgaging everything they own only to lose it all, including there wife.

Dream big indeed but don’t ever forget whats really important in life.