Fighting in Hockey?

eyeguy507 wrote:

I do need to get my boat out you dam right about that! Stupid work is in the way, river is high and fast and opener ain’t coming for another month. I compare hockey to soccer based on low scoring games not style of play. Sometimes I don’t have time to elaborate.

Soyou are obviously referring to the Wild not scoring goals, which is directly attributable to their poor skill level vs the state of the game because scoring is up to the same averages they were in the early 70’s when goalies were small, equipment was minimal and players used archaic sticks/gear.

Completely eliminating fighting in hockey would be like eliminating the ball in golf, basketball, baseball and football. Leave the balls in the game. Hockey doesn’t have a football, basketball, baseball, golf ball or ball of any kind. Hockey doesn’t need one, players have them instead.

PS, soccer isn’t a real sport, but guess golf really isn’t either.

This conversation reminds me of all the changes the NFL has made in an attempt to make the game safer- which has pissed off a lot of fans in the process. Fights are exciting for both the casual and diehard fan, no doubt, but there should be a concern for player safety at the same time. CTE is no joke. I don’t know much about hockey, not going to act like I do, but maybe “allow” fights but only give a penalty to the person that threw the first punch? You can still fight, but it harms your team in the process. Similar to what they do in other sports anyway.

Watching the game the rookie had it coming. He was egging it on and it didn’t turn out well for him.

Steve Root wrote:

“The types of physical play and incidents that lead to frustration and anger in hockey are way more intense than any other sport.”

How about football? An interior lineman gets pounded every play. There are some guys on the Wild that haven’t thrown a check in years.

Hockey got nastier as the equipment got better. Back when the players weren’t armor plated, before everybody had a catcher’s mask on…. people kept their sticks down.

S.R.

Looks like my reply never posted yesterday.

A lineman knows exactly what is coming every play. He needs to run into or block someone, it’s expected. It’s not like the old days where guys would fight to prove themselves as a rookie, swing momentum or just for the sake of it. Most fights now are the result of aggravating hits, frustration, dirty plays, arrant sticks, etc. That part is pretty much the same in all sports, when those things occur it usually leads to pushing and shoving, etc. In baseball and basketball it will lead to fights, but in football, if you throw punches, don’t be surprised when you break your hand.

My point is these types of plays are way more common and frequent in hockey.

I don’t know about the equipment. I saw some pretty gruesome and dirty plays in the 80s. The game is way faster though and in a way, more out of control. I see checks now that I swear are charging and would have been called charging in the old days. They don’t even call charging anymore, I can’t tell you the last time I saw it. It may be because of the speed of the game and no clutching and gabbing. Back in the day charging was more apparent because the guy was traveling twice as fast as everyone else.

I think Boarding has replaced Charging a long time ago. Pretty much the same thing. The NHL would like to see fighting go away completely. Then they can open the door to co-ed play. They are completely in love with Kendall Coyne Schoen. Man that gal has been everywhere since she was at the All Star event.

No win question. I’m not the most knowledgeable hockey fan but am familiar the code. Russo wrote a good book on it.

10 years ago I was 100% in favor of hockey allowing fights. I believed in the code and was entertained.

Today we know more and more about post concussion issues and CTE. If you know someone who deals with this on a daily basis then you get it(I’m one). If not, remember Boogard.

Many shots to the head in the run of play are unavoidable in sports. Fighting is the preventable one.

The real question, is the entertainment and/or hockey code worth the damage it causes?

Ice Cap wrote:

The NHL would like to see fighting go away completely. Then they can open the door to co-ed play. They are completely in love with Kendall Coyne Schoen. Man that gal has been everywhere since she was at the All Star event.

It is completely right that women should participate in the NHL All-Star game, but I highly doubt we’ll be seeing women in the NHL. If you’ve attended any Minnesota Whitecaps practices or games, you’ll immediately see why.

The size difference alone is TREMENDOUS. Kendall Coyne Schofield, I would estimate to be maybe 5’3″. She is certainly not even 5’6″. I would say the average MN Whitecaps player is (and this is a gusstiment) 5’4″ to 5’6″. I don’t think there is any player that I saw that is over 5’9″. I hate to guess at weight, but I’d be shocked if any of them were even 170 and the average has to be much lower. When seen in comparison to Wild players, they are absolutely tiny. Spurgeon would even be considered a monster if you put him on the ice with them.

The bottom line is that compared to an average NHL player, the size and speed differences are so night and day that it would be dangerous to combine the two under anything like the current NHL rules.

Now somebody is going to get their undies in a bunch and try to make this into me dissing women’s hockey. Which as any fool can see, I’m NOT doing. Nowhere did I say women are not highly skilled players, etc, etc. I’m only saying that the size, weight, and speed of today’s NHL players combined with the rules they play under would present major player safety issues under today’s NHL rules.

Grouse

Hockey wouldn’t be hockey without the fights!

At the risk of all of you assaulting my manhood I have to comment on this post and almost all of the comments posted so far. Here goes:

I am scared to death of the impact of a serious concussion both immediately and collectively over time on the life of a young athlete. I am 71 years old and I have lived a long full life and am surrounded by wonderful children and grandchildren and I am blessed that they are all in good health and leading productive meaningful lives.

Having said all that – I just cannot see how as a parent knowing what we do today on the dangers of concussions that we would put our sons and daughters in harms way especially in sports that allow fighting and direct face to face head trauma. Don’t we all have a responsibility to protect our athletes. How is two people standing face to face and punching each other in the head with their bare fists part of a sport. Come on – play hockey. If two athletes stop playing hockey and start punching each other in the face they should be ejected from the game and be arrested and charged with assault. I think that would take fighting out of the game pretty quickly.

I understand your point of view, Steve. But we are talking about fully grown men who get paid millions of dollars to play a sport. At the end of the day it is entertainment, not to mention these grown men are choosing to participate.

At least in reference to the NHL…. leave it alone.

Just wanted to make a point. I’ll go lay by my dish.

I’m a fan of you throw a punch you’re suspended 10 games. Same in baseball, throw a punch or a bean ball – 10 games.

Baseball has a 162 game season

we are such a soft society. Professional Hockey players, pro football players… i doubt anyone held a gun to their head to make millions of dollars to play a game. There are obviously inherent risks in constantly running into each other at full speed. The fact that this is shocking news is amazing. Also, they are entertainers first and foremost. Im 100% for a fight now and then in hockey.

Youth sports do protect kids and fighting is illegal.

With pros, no one is forcing them to drop the gloves.

Pug makes a good point about the ‘chippiness’ of hockey. A sharp slash or hook on your bare wrist, a ‘subtle’ cross check in the ribs, etc. really get the blood boiling.

In the case of hockey fights, I can really understand why they happen, as opposed to baseball where if you break some imaginary rule, the opposing team gets so butt hurt that they are allowed and applauded for throwing a baseball 95 mph into someone’s ribs. Then the batter is vilified if they fight back, charge the mound, told to ‘keep their emotions in check’.

At least in hockey a lot of the situations start mutually. I’ve always felt if you don’t want someone to celebrate a home-run, don’t give one up. Pitcher’s can celebrate all they want after a big strikeout, why can’t a batter do the same?

To summarize, hockey fights are often very understandable, and a result of a string of physical/verbal aggravation.

Baseball fights are very nearly 100% of the time the result of grown man being absolute man-babies, call the waaaambulance.

mplspug wrote:

With pros, no one is forcing them to drop the gloves.

Tell that to Donald Bradshear and Steve Moore.

How about Matt Dumba’s season ending because he “answered the bell”

“The Code” is slowly being phased out in favor of the Department of Player Safety.

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And those incidents happened quite some time ago. If you are saying those injuries happened because they didn’t fight, I’d say they happened because of cheap shots and goonery which really isnt a part of the game anymore.

I miss the boogeyman, (rest in peace Derrick Boogaard ! The hockey fights are what kept players honest. They knew that if they played dirty, they’d send out the goons & make you pay. Hockey is less without them.

hockey has been less since the north stars got traded for the wild. the fights are for ratings and entertainment or the sport would be dead…..truth hurts. Do they fight in the Olympics? I’ll hang up and listen.

ajw wrote:

we are such a soft society. Professional Hockey players, pro football players… i doubt anyone held a gun to their head to make millions of dollars to play a game. There are obviously inherent risks in constantly running into each other at full speed. The fact that this is shocking news is amazing. Also, they are entertainers first and foremost. Im 100% for a fight now and then in hockey.

Soft or smart? And no, they’re human beings first and foremost. Concussions kill. NHL and NFL have already had several million dollar settlements with its former players, so look for further protections to continue in both leagues as science continues to learn more. I get fighting is “the way its always been” so most will fight it, but its only a matter of time.. enjoy it while ya got it.

Boarding= completely crushing a defenseless opponent into the boards

Charging= skating through a player. If you are at top speed and glide into your check it it’s completely legal.

Deleted wrote:

I miss the boogeyman, (rest in peace Derrick Boogaard ! The hockey fights are what kept players honest. They knew that if they played dirty, they’d send out the goons & make you pay. Hockey is less without them.

X2

Smackem33 wrote:

Boarding= completely crushing a defenseless opponent into the boards

Charging= skating through a player. If you are at top speed and glide into your check it it’s completely legal.

And/Or leaving your feet

Fighting will remain in the NHL until there’s a tragic death as a direct result of it while on the ice (not a long term issue like CTE) that’s the sad truth…

The NHL is trending away from fights, which is a good thing imo. However, it shouldn’t be eliminated entirely either, imo, as hits like the one on Oshie last night will steadily increase with no fear of retribution. No idea how that was only a 2 minuter. Maybe if they tied the penalty to the amount of time the injured player is out they could rid the game of fights entirely.

Hockey is a violent sport. It just is.

You can get a concussion way easier from getting checked into the boards or hitting your head on the ice, than from a fight.

Kids are getting concussions just from playing hockey. No fighting involved. Maybe hockey is the problem. Maybe we should just ban hockey altogether, along with rugby and probably a few other sports

BigWerm wrote:

The NHL is trending away from fights, which is a good thing imo. However, it shouldn’t be eliminated entirely either, imo, as hits like the one on Oshie last night will steadily increase with no fear of retribution. No idea how that was only a 2 minuter. Maybe if they tied the penalty to the amount of time the injured player is out they could rid the game of fights entirely.

Sorry, but the hit on Oshie was not a bad hit and did not deserve any more than 2 minutes. The out come was a bad deal yes, but it wasn’t a purposeful bad hit at all. I like Oshie alot and always have from his days as a Fighting Sioux, but he just got a bad result. I wish I could find the video of him leaving his feet to put an enormous hit on a guy as a Sioux. The hit last night was nothing compared to that.

sticker wrote:

Sorry, but the hit on Oshie was not a bad hit and did not deserve any more than 2 minutes.

I haven’t rewatched it other than the game last night, and thought it looked like a cross check from behind into the boards. That’s about as bad as it gets other than actual assault like McSorley/Bertuzzi, imo. I could be wrong since I haven’t rewatched it.