Feedback requested by April 1 on Hidden Falls / Crosby Farm Master Plan DRAFT

I wanted to share some updates on the development of the “master plan” for this project. The parks dpt has posted a PDF of the plan on their website — the project page is here, and the PDF itself is here.

A survey where you can give feedback on this draft is also available here, and this will be open thru April 1 only!

Some of the “highlights” that pertain to pool 2 anglers and boaters:

On p16, map: Note the “future park expansion” includes the Ford parcel along the shore directly downstream from the dam on the St. Paul side. Everyone knows this spot, nice that we maybe won’t have to trespass to get back there in the future.

-pg48, item 3I: Boat Ramp & Boat Trailer Parking (medium-high)
The boat ramp was updated in 2001/02, is in good condition, and is maintained by City Parks and Recreation. Addition of an accessible path is needed. The condition of the ramp will continue to be monitored, and repaired or replaced as needed. The largest parking lot near the boat ramp is striped for 32 boats with trailers, but vehicles without trailers often park here, leaving some cars with trailers with nowhere to park on busy days. As a first step, sign trailer spaces for vehicles with trailers only, and install a kiosk near the boat launch with information about nearby public launch sites, as well as information on boating and launching safety. Wayfinding signage will also be installed along the entrance driveway so people in motor vehicles can find the correct parking lot. More substantial improvements to the boat ramp parking area will be considered for the optimal mix of trailer and non-trailer parking spaces. Options include: Additional signage, re-striping, and/or reconfiguring the parking lot design, resurfacing as needed. Additionally a hydrodynamics study may be required for creating a safer boat launch area.
Estimated Cost: $200,000

Sounds like they realize the back eddy there creates problems for many boaters. Potential for a wing dam or closing dam? I encourage you to mention this specifically if you submit the feedback form above. Glad to see they will at least attempt to create a trailer-only area.

-pg46, item 3C: Add Canoe/Kayak Launch (medium)
Non-motorized boats are put in at the existing concrete boat ramp (which can cause conflicts) or at the sandy area adjacent to the ramp. Non-motorized boaters prefer to launch on a natural surface to reduce damage to boat hulls. Formalize a canoe/kayak launch northwest of the existing boat launch to increase safety and reduce congestion at the existing ramp. Ensure the canoe/kayak launch is ADA accessible.
Estimated Cost: $15,000

-pg53, item 5A: River Learning Center (medium-high)
A river learning center is proposed in the Great River Passage Plan for the Watergate Marina site. While current marina users support the continuation of that facility, many community members and programming partner organizations support the development of the environmental learning center. The proposal is being studied for feasibility through a separate City process. Continue researching the potential of a River Learning Center at the Watergate location with potential partners (the National Park Service)

The future of Watergate is definitely up in the air. According to the document they are currently renegotiating the lease with the mgmt company that handles Watergate, potentially thru 2021. That may be the end of the line for Watergate as we currently know it. Although the master plan does still envision using this as a marina in some capacity, and they plan to make use of the bay immediately upstream from Watergate as well.

Thanks for the update Tangler.

I know what it takes to stay abreast of these proposed changes. At least we have a chance to voice our opinions with your information.

Correct me if I’m wrong but from other projects a plan needs to be submitted to the city, in order to do the surveys and studies needed to finalize everything. April 1 is last day to submit feedback to this plan which then can be studied more or less. Yes?

With that said the signage, back eddy issues, parking lot issues etc is direct feedback from the responders and committee members. As stated highly encourage anyone who uses hidden Falls to fill out and directly mention what you’d like to see.

Wing dam or similar structure up current from landing is interesting. If the general population of boaters, many recreational, can benefit from being in a less current area while loading unloading we all can benefit to get our boats in the water that much faster.

It’s worth at least a study to determine the feasibility and benefits. Probably make another nice current seam on the shoreline for fish to hang out on as well

Nice work tangler.

Here’s the way you deal with government.

You want a simple, cheap wingdam and a few signs? You need to ask for a dredged harbor with at least 10-12 docking spots. Trailer parking for 100 boats. Then you will actually get a wingdan and a few signs.

Ask for a wingdam and signs, expect nothing.

-J.

Hope you mention that in your feedback!

It should be said the wing dam is more for safety purposes. Current really can rip thru there at times as tangler mentioned, and only a matter of time perhaps until your average 3-4x year boater shows up and gets hurt or worse. That was pointed out by another member of the committee who wasn’t there for the anglers if you will. It’s a common sense issue others see as well that will have a good chance on going forward, especially when other structures in the plan may not move forward due to comments. Tic for tac.

Best any of us can do is make your voice heard and hope for the best. Believe it was mentioned this park will be staying alone for the next 20years after this so please, let yourself be heard.

Actually, I really don’t have any major issues with the way Hidden Falls is set up/run now. Other than it closes each night. Keeping the ramp “primitive”, no dock, rocky shoreline keeps most tuna boats and $60k Rangers away. Leaves it open for guys who run smaller 14-16 footers. Can’t ever recall having to wait for more than one or two boats to put in before me. The big boats can go put in at Watergate and pay the $10 bucks for a harbor and dock to use there. In other words, carful what you wish for. Make it too nice and that’s not good either.

The problem with cars parking in the trailer spots should be as easy as calling the city parking cops and getting them towed. Seen it happen pretty often working downtown.

-J.

However you feel about any aspect of the plan, I encourage you to use the feedback form.

This project is moving forward. A lot of money involved. National Parks, City of St. Paul, Met Council, large grants, etc.

Our neighborhood is changing and these park lands will be changing as well. I’ve lived here 17 years and hope for 17 more. We understand that a chunk of that next period is going to be rocky. Some of our favorite things will be changed, maybe eliminated, or under construction for long periods. So when I look at this plan, I acknowledge the harsh reality that I personally like the park better the way it is. Aging facilities and difficult launching conditions contribute to lower traffic. It’s felt like my own personal playground on many days over the last 17 years, and I’ve enjoyed that, but I have no right to it really.

It was obvious from early on that “status quo” was not on the table for these parks. The only option as a citizen was to try to ensure that anglers and boaters were taken into consideration in this plan so that we didn’t end up with no boat ramp, or less trailer parking, or more conflict with paddlers, or more restricted access to shore angling, etc.

Thanks Tangler.

I don’t think updating the ramp and enforcing parking restrictions is going to increase traffic tremendously. I’m all for a few upgrades and will fill out the survey this weekend.

When I talk to boaters that never go on the river it’s because it scares them due to unfamiliarity. I don’t see a major change in that with an easier ramp to use.

Plus, I just bought a ranger and I can’t afford watergate now. Every $10 needs to go to the boat fund!

Last day for feedback on the draft plan. Thanks to those who have read and participated.