Fizzing

Does it make a difference from the midpoint of the fish which side you do it?

Watched Scott do it and he had the head facing him and fizzed to the right.

I’ve had no problems going on the right side of the while the fishes head is away from me.

It does not matter what side. The important thing is that you go “over and up like I showed and then use a 45 degree angle. That way you are not doing damage to the fish.

Check out the anatomy sometime when you clean a walleye, you will see why that is the best route in

Here my stance on fizzing:
Fizzing of Fish
Summary:
Fish caught and quickly removed from deep water often show signs of depressurization. The most obvious signs of depressurization are an over-inflated swim bladder, erratic swimming behavior, the inability to submerge when released, and/or red on the edges of the tail, dorsal fin, and/or mouth. Death can result from gas embolisms, predation or exposure if fish are unable to re-submerge, or from internal organ damage.

“Fizzing,” or artificial swim bladder deflation, is sometimes used in an attempt to increase the survival of fish that show signs of depressurization. The procedure involves puncturing the gas bladder through the musculature of the fish using a sharp object such as a hypodermic needle.

The New Hampshire Fish and Game Department’s Position on Fizzing:
There is currently no law prohibiting anglers from fizzing bass in NH. However, based on a review of the available literature on fizzing, the NH Fish and Game Department does not advocate the use of fizzing, pending further evaluation and research.

There are a number of reasons not to fizz bass. During fizzing, there is an increased chance of infection to the fish and the potential to pierce other internal organs. Additionally, although the most obvious sign of rapid depressurization is an over inflated swim bladder, there is also internal damage that occurs to the brain and heart (as a result of gas bubbles in the blood). Damage to the brain and heart is often the cause of death in these fish and fizzing will not correct for this type of injury.

In order to avoid bass mortality due to rapid depressurization, the best practice is to not fish for bass in deep water. If deep waters are fished, fish should be released immediately (paper tournament), as many fish are able to re-submerge when released within 1 to 2 minutes. Additionally, there are other release techniques besides fizzing available for releasing fish caught from deep water; see:www.mnr.gov.on.ca/MNR/pubs/Fizzing.pdf
sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/bassmaster/news/story?page=b_fea_bm_short_casts_0309_bends

The only thing fizzing does is kill fish, and it makes us feel better that we tryed to “help” these doomed fish.

lee

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The only thing fizzing does is kill fish, and it makes us feel better that we tryed to “help” these doomed fish.

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Tell that to the fish that do survive that would not have if they were not given a “chance” to survive.

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The only thing fizzing does is kill fish, and it makes us feel better that we tryed to “help” these doomed fish.

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Tell that to the fish that do survive that would not have if they were not given a “chance” to survive.

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I agree Scott.

Have any studies been done to back the theory that these fizzed fish do survive? I have no idea. It would seem to me, that once the bladder was punctured, they would be in worse shape. Does the hole heal up over time? What purpose exactly does the bladder serve for the fish?

LOL, I was NOT trying to turn this into a “Flame” but the two “pros” seem to know more than the biologists. I respect the fish and fisherman here. What I do not like is to be Flamed instanly. The best way to preseve these fish is NOT to fish them so deep. So have fun “Flaming” me because I stated a fact that the two “pros” don’t like. So the best way to take care of the other persons fact finding is to “Flame” him….ok boyz…..burn me good.

lee

Lee,
I am not a “PRO” and I think the only thing anyone “dissagreed” with you on was your quote of “fizzing kills fish.” I certainly dont see that as a FLAME as you suggested. Many of the guys posting have lots of experiance with fizzing and not fizzing fish and I think they are only speeking from their experiances of how fizzed fish look and act compared to nonfizzed. BUT i definatly dont see their replies as FLAMES.

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Lee,
I am not a “PRO” and I think the only thing anyone “dissagreed” with you on was your quote of “fizzing kills fish.” I certainly dont see that as a FLAME as you suggested. Many of the guys posting have lots of experiance with fizzing and not fizzing fish and I think they are only speeking from their experiances of how fizzed fish look and act compared to nonfizzed. BUT i definatly dont see their replies as FLAMES.

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I agree with Corey here…I saw no flaming….and the New Hampshire example seemed to be dealing with Bass…has any data come out about Walleyes specific?
Might be different..

Bass, or walleyes, makes no difference fish are fish, here’s one from South Dakota Wildlife division concerning walleye.
Does letting gas out of the gas bladder with a needle, or “fizzing” a fish, improve a fish’s chances of surviving?

A fish that is unable to remain upright in the water because it is severely stressed and/or has an over-inflated gas bladder, stands a poor chance of surviving, if released. “Fizzing” is a process where gas is released from the gas bladder of a fish by inserting a needle in the side of the fish and puncturing the gas bladder. While helping a fish regain it’s ability to return to the bottom of the lake, many fish that are “fizzed” end up dying within a few days of release, from the stress of being caught and handled. There is also the likelihood that when you insert the needle into the side of a fish you will damage internal organs such as the kidney or intestines. Just because a fish swims towards the bottom doesn’t mean it will survive.

OK, I have given you two wildlife biologists opinion on fizzing and the high mortality rate. Show me two opinions that it is OK to jab a dirty needle into a living creature with no understanding of their anatomy in the hope of getting the needle placement correct.

lee

I also have read a number of articles about fizzing. From what I have read the long term mortality rates of fizzed fish is not good. It is actually illegal in some places and many states, including Minnesota, choose not to endorse it. For this reason I choose not to fizz fish unless in a kill tourney.
That being said, it is a known fact that any fish taken from deep water has a survival rate that is less than stellar. The best option, in my humble opinion, is to choose not to fish for these deep fish. I know that many times in a tournament that is just not an option so that is going to have to be a personal choice each angler has to make for his/herself.

I am curious, though, to hear the opinions of what people think of just clipping the fins of deep walleyes with weights. By clipping the fins the fish can sit in the bottom of the livewell and acclimate themselves with the pressure change of the shallow water. it has seemed to work well for me.

My two cents.

Here is an article that may make an angler think twice about fishing for very deep walleyes. web page

Thanks for the added info……Even though I do not tourny fish at all,I plan on looking into this deeper-VERY interesting topic.

Still saw no flaming…..and while I know internet posting styles differ…your posts seem to be a bit abrasive.

Lenny has an intresting question also…..

Thanks Lenny. Abrasive? I assume you were talking about me,Lee, no problem I have been called worse by better. Any way I stand by my opinion of fizzing. As far as the “flaming” goes when I see one person make a comment about my research and then another gives him a pat on the back about his opinion of what I was saying, it does not sit well with me. As far as what Lenny said at least he went out and tried to back his opinion with research. If you read the like artical it days DO NOT remove them from the water but get them back ASAP, or don’t fish that deep. You have read the research now the decision is yours to evaluate as a TRUE sportsman.

lee

Easy guys. Everyone has their opinion on this and I for one would like to see more opinions and information on this subject. If this post gets out of hand it will be locked and no one will gain.
Let’s just be sure to keep this civil.

Althought a little abrasive, and that’s okay, hearing both sides of the issue on a topic i knew little about, but have seen first hand with catching deep water eyes (23′-30′), I will make sure to not pull the deep water hooked fish out of the water to help maintain pressure. Also i found keeping the fish by the tail and holding upright until the fish maintains its own balance they seem to swim off strong and lively. But in the long run its God who choses life or death, not us. My two cents but good a debate since with the material presented I will definitely not be “fizzing” fish.

I made an observation on a post awhile back. I and my son had been fishing lake Bemidji over Father’s Day. We helped clean 210 walleyes, the mortality of the tourney. It was noted by tourney officials and those who fished the tourney, that the fish which died, and most had been fizzed, and been in a live well for some time, were the ones we were cleaning at the end of the day.

The key here,is that they were ‘in the live well’. That stressed these fish even more. So it was to late for these deep water caught ‘eyes.
There must be a way to save these fish, we just haven’t found the best way, ‘yet’, short of having a Hyperbaric chamber in addition to a live well in ones boat.

Due what you must. Let your conscious by your guide, and good fishing.

My .02$ worth.

Well Lee…I said a “bit”….that means just a little…. I never did want to argue…again, this forum method of discussion can be difficult to determine a persons true attitude sometimes,Thats all I meant…..sorry if I offended.
That being said…I also feel nobody was flaming you by just disagreeing with your research… or someone else who also feels the same way and stateing such…..
Your point is VERY valid , and a very interesting topic but I have not YET read enough research yet to form my opinion on this…….
but even when I do,if I disagree with you..does that alone make me not a “true sportsman”?
As far as deep fish go…I never fish deep except when fish’in for supper….and 90% of the time when I’m fish’in walleye that’s what I’m doing..
Jeff

Flat fish. Hows did you guys determine they had been fizzed? Or maybe do you have any idea how they determined this?

No doubt that there are at least 2 biolgists that have an educated opinion as to the mortality rate of a fizzed fish. At the same time, I am sure that, if one looks hard enough, you can find just as many biologists that would stand up to fizzing. A college degree or position in a company or DNR does not make one right. Look at global warming… there are as many (if not more) scientists that DON’T believe in global warming as there are that DO believe in it. It is a simple fact that, if done correctly, there is NO factual proof that fizzing a fish harms them in any way. The fact is, unless these biologists catch a fish, fizz them, microchip or tag them, and put them right back (in the matter of a minute or so), then there is too much chance of the livewell factor to skew the research. I have read the fizzing information done (I think it was a canadian research that also polled US State DNR offices) and none of it appears to have gone to a truly scientific enviroment with scientific standards for testing. Until it does, it is just a bunch of biologists giving their own opinion… informed or not. Either way… what we do know for a fact is that pulling a deep water walleye and NOT fizzing them does increase the mortality rate. That has been proven.

Just sayin’

Flatfish,

Putting asize the fizzing issue, why are you so upset that these fish were harvested and distributed for consumption? I rarely keep any fish, so I wouldn’t lose an instant of sleep over having a few fish I catch each year consumed after a tournament. The folks who come to the league weigh-ins really seem to appreciate the opportunity to leave with a few fresh fillets. The average meat hunter who’s out every weekend is going to harvest way more fish in a month, than the average tournament guy will in a year. There is nothing wrong with harvesting some of this renewable resource.

Tournament anglers versus Weekend Anglers
Catch-N-Release anglers versus Catch-N-Clean anglers

And now I can add Fizzers versus Non-Fizzers to my list of polarized outdoorsmen.

The fact is, unless you simply choose NOT to fish, you run the risk of killing any fish you catch. I’m a big proponent of catch-n-release but I have seen well-intentioned CPR anglers beat the crap out of fish in an effort to take a photo, then release that fish knowing full well that fish has a slim chance of survival after the beating it just took. My point is, if you’re a fisherman, you’re killing fish, one way or another.

What I applaud is the effort today’s anglers make to reduce fish mortality in general. Whether you believe fizzing is helpful or harmful, you should at least appreciate the effort one takes in trying to reduce mortality while he pursues his hobby or sport. The current fizzing research is sketchy at best. The facts are few. There simply isn’t enough evidence to say “I’m right and you’re wrong so you’re not a ‘true sportsman'”. Fisheries biologists have opinions. Educated opinions (sometimes), but opinions all the same. I suspect that one of the main reasons some biologist might discourage fizzing is that they fear that many anglers will not perform the fizzing properly, thereby increasing mortality rates. Anecdotal evidence from some tournament anglers suggest that fizzing a fish will keep it alive in the livewell, while non-fizzed fish will die. This isn’t scientific evidence, but some tournament anglers with thousands of dollars on the line will tell you it’s true. I have yet to see any solid, well-conducted research evidence on the issue of fizzing itself. There is nothing that is convincing. Again, only opinions on the matter. Opinions are welcome. Discussion is encouraged. But we might all do well to take a step down from our podium and discuss the issue without the self-righteous tone.

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Flat fish. Hows did you guys determine they had been fizzed? Or maybe do you have any idea how they determined this?

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One of the tourney pros was helping clean the fish, and showed us the “autopsy”. Most of the fish were fizzed by needling just above and off the side of the ‘vent’, and although the air bladder was punctured, you could see the ‘bloody trail’ through the flesh left behind. Apparently it is harder than we realize to miss ‘vital organs’ in the process. Especially with a fish flopping around in our hand with a needle in the other hand.

And like I mentioned, these fish were also stressed in a live well for who knows, but a while. So they had that against them and their chance to survive.

I just know I don’t think I’ll ever fizz a fish again. I’ve stuck cattle to relieve bloating and never killed them. There must be a way to help these fish, but I’m not convinced now that fizzing is the answer at this time.

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Flatfish,

Putting asize the fizzing issue, why are you so upset that these fish were harvested and distributed for consumption? I rarely keep any fish, so I wouldn’t lose an instant of sleep over having a few fish I catch each year consumed after a tournament. The folks who come to the league weigh-ins really seem to appreciate the opportunity to leave with a few fresh fillets. The average meat hunter who’s out every weekend is going to harvest way more fish in a month, than the average tournament guy will in a year. There is nothing wrong with harvesting some of this renewable resource.

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I was glad to help clean, package, and see these fish went to go use. Senior centers, folks in the community less well off, etc. And who among us doesn’t like a nice fillet now and then? What ends up floating in the lake doesn’t make we fishermen and women look good in the public eye.

A lot of good points have been made in this forum. It’s healthy for all of us to work through this, because someone is apparently having some ‘great’ success in saving these fish, and my to them. But I, and those sponsors at the Bemidji tourney felt even after all that had been done to try to save these fish, and near 50% mortality was a tragedy. And maybe this was the extreme high for a tourney. I don’t really know what the average acceptable mortality is. Does anyone out there know?

Sounds like you guys ran a first rate tournament. I applaud your efforts in the cleaning and donation of those fish deemed unreleasable.

You may have heard already, but FLW is cooperating with state wildlife agencies in conducting a walleye mortality study. I don’t know when or how the data will be presented, but I would imagine it will answer a lot of questions regarding tournaments and walleyes in general.

Wade, your comments are exactly my point. Thank you for forming them more clearly than I. Right or wrong… there isn’t enough evidence either way.

Well I got what I wanted, a lively spirited debate about a very important subject and intelligent to boot. I am not being scarcastic either. I do fimly believe that putting a dirty unsterile needle into a fish in this case is not healthy for the already stressed fish, I saw one article where they talked about cleaning the large bore needle out with a bottom bouncer…anyway my compliments to everyone for their input. I still say it is a death sentence for the fish. Good luck!!!!

tanks
lee