Need some help

After watching Sunday’s IDO episode about trolling for basin walleyes, I started thinking about the lake that we go to every summer for vacation. We have spent a lot of time trolling in open water there and had some success but it has been limited, one or two fish in an evening… not enough for me to feel like we have it figured out by any means…. but enough that I know the fish are there, especially the giants. The lake has massive fish in it… we have caught a couple 30″ fish over the years on musky lures. We have also caught 14″ fish out in the middle of the lake too, so there are fish of all sizes out there.

The lake is about 700 acres, clear(12-14ft visibility) with good structure. It is full of ciscoes and small perch which is what brings the fish out deep. Max depth is around 70ft, but most of the basin I’m referring to is 35-60 feet deep. The fish are not near those depths because a thermocline sets up every year (usually somewhere between 15-20 ft) so they susupend out there. It is not hard to mark fish and baitfish on the graph. We have tried pulling taildancers and shad raps mainly… most fish that we have caught over the years have been on a #9 shad rap (or similar depth crank) in the evening. Almost all fish we’ve caught have been in the evening, none during the day or after dark (except one 23 incher caught on a hog wobbler… maybe we should be trying more surface lures .

So that says to me that we are hitting the right depth when the baitfish are rising in the evening, but during the day we are not getting bit and same thing after dark. We have tried running deeper cranks during the day but haven’t had any luck. Night is tough to mark fish I assume because they are so high in the water column. We have tried running boards some… but haven’t noticed that it results in more fish.

So are my expectations too high? Is one or two fish an evening mean we’re successful? Are we just not getting something dialed in? Are they catchable during the day? What are some good baits for open water trolling that run 10-20 ft deep? What about pulling spinners?

BTW we are fishing in late July. Sorry I have a lot of questions. But I’ve done a ton of research and we’ve been trying this for 5-6 years now with limited success. I really want to figure it out. Thanks ahead of time for your help.

If the fish go deep, you can run a shad rap down to around 50 feet on 10 colors of standard leadcore, or 70 feet on 10 colors of Suffix 832 leadcore. The fish could go shallow too though. You have any shallow weeds (3 to 7 feet)with bait fish like small perch?

I would probably try live bait rigging in the 15-20′ range closer to structure on the cloudier days or near dusk, working shallower to find fish. I think your tactics are spot on for the daytime/high sun conditions. Depending on the location of lake, that timeframe is kind of known as a transition period. Fish could be anywhere.

I would run boards if you are not now. away and shallow one side away deep the other side

There are nice cabbage beds, deep coontail, and mixed weeds in various parts of the lake. We fish those too, but A. the fish are smaller B. just as tough to catch because of all the small fish. We have viewed every piece of structure in the lake with the cam… there is fish everywhere but like I said, not the piggies. There are lots of “eaters” on structure… anything over 20″ seem to be out deeper. The fish in the basin are not that deep, they don’t go much below the thermocline… so for the most part they are less than 20 feet down over 50 feet of water. The lake is near Leech Lake if that helps regionally.

When using boards, how far out to the side should the board be running? and then how far back typically from the board to the lure? Should I increase speed to try and trigger more of a reaction strike? we typically troll 1-1.5mph…

You’re expectations are not too high. It sounds like you are doing a lot of the right things for catching suspended walleyes at night. Now it’s time to adjust your presentation for daylight hours.

The first thing to understand is that you are trying to read the ciscos out there more than the walleyes. If you find them, odds are you will find the walleyes close by. Keep in mind that ciscoes are nomadic and they will move up and down the water column based on when they eat, the water temperatures, water clarity and the amount of sunlight. Typically, they rise up to feed at night and then they go down deeper during the day. You should follow this general rule when it comes to how deep you place your crankbaits within the water column. From the sounds of it, you are not running your crankbaits deep enough during the day. Pay attention to your sonar and where you are marking the majority of the baitfish and don’t be afraid to go down and troll the 30-40 foot depths.

In regard to clear water clarity conditions – I would recommend you use planer boards during the day and get them far away from your boat to help prevent spooking fish with your boat shadow and motor noise. Even more so in calm conditions (80 – 100 feet) when the lake is flat.

Good deep diving suspended walleye crankbaits include Deep Tail Dancers – TDD#11, Deep Thundersticks and Reef Runners (800). Don’t be afraid to go big – ciscoes average weight is around 1.5 lbs. Understanding the depth curves of these crankbaits is critical so you are able to place them 2-4 feet above the arcs on your sonar.

Keep on experimenting and think of it as a process of elimination. You need to figure out what crankbait to use, which color, trolled at what depth and at what speed (1.5 – 2.5mph) They will eat.

Hope this helps…

Youngfry: I also struggled on my home lake, Cold, deep 120’+ ,clear. I still can not make the larger cranks produce consistently but, I am still working to put a open basin system together its just a matter of time. Brad J. is a wealth of knowledge on the subject. ( go thru his past posts )I believe the open basin is were the big girls hang out.

What currently works very well for me (numbers not size average 14″-20″)

The lake needs a good wind to really turn the fish on during the day.

I have had great success with deep Salmo hornets #4s / any lure with a lot of action/flash – on structure and suspended with leadcore pulled 2.8-3.5 MPH the bite is a reaction strike. I set up above the fish 1′-3′.

Good luck,keep trying!

Thanks for the tips that is very helpful. It sounds like my biggest problem is not knowing how deep I’m running exactly. How do you know? I see there is a precision trolling app now but its like $50… is there a cheaper way to access the info? I’d just spend the $50 but then I’d have to do it again as new lures come out etc… doesn’t seem very cost effective.

The precision trolling data app is not out yet. You will be able to purchase individual lures at $1.99 ea.

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Thanks for the tips that is very helpful. It sounds like my biggest problem is not knowing how deep I’m running exactly. How do you know? I see there is a precision trolling app now but its like $50… is there a cheaper way to access the info? I’d just spend the $50 but then I’d have to do it again as new lures come out etc… doesn’t seem very cost effective. [/quote

The easy way to find out running depth is to run over rock/gravel structure at the depth you want to fish.
Speed-lure must be what you are going to fish.

IMHO – if the thermocline sets up from 15 to 20 feet down and you are long lining a #9 shad rap, you are doing 2 things that I would tend to avoid.

1) you are running a bait that will get down nearly 20 feet with 150 of line out (I run 10lb PP and can get an easy 20′). Especially in the twilight hours, the fish may well be riding higher than the bait is running. I would much rather be running 5′ over them than 2′ below…… Maybe try running a #7 or even a #5.

2)I would probably be running a small inline board. Lots of those supsended fish will slide to the side when a boat comes over. A board running out in undisturbed waters may be a good trick to try.

T