So Pug…What about walleye stocking?

It sounds like you might have something to say about the 2012 MN DNR Roundtable as it relates to the walleye stocking in our state.

Figured this would be a good place to get it off your chest.

It is a waste , for the most part of DNR dollars and resource. In 2013 the DNR goes into the red,much in part to 20%+ of the fisheries budget being spent on stocking. And a lot of stocking goes on in lakes where walleyes can’t reproduce naturally.

I know for most Minnesotans it is engrained in there head that stocking helps a lake, and it may to an extent, but at what cost?

I can remember as a kid how people would always know of a lake has been stocked. There is the mentality that stocking fish means good fishing and you’d always want to know was a lake stocked recently?

I’ve seen first hand the waste. Knife Lake in central Minnesota was reclaimed and has been stocked heavily for about about 20 years. The walleye fishing is fair at best. They could have spent that money improving the habitat of the river that flows into the lake and improved natural spawning and be done with it.

I am going to disagree a little bit. The DNR needs to do smart stocking or no stocking and where viable rebuild spawning sites. There are lakes that the DNR has been dumping walleyes into for 30 years that never get above a 2 fish per average net lift when they do their survey netting.
10 fish per net lift or above is considered a good walleye lake. The DNR has tons of data they just need to examine it and not just keep doing the SOS they have been doing because that’s what they have always done.

dd

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It is a waste , for the most part of DNR dollars and resource. In 2013 the DNR goes into the red,much in part to 20%+ of the fisheries budget being spent on stocking. And a lot of stocking goes on in lakes where walleyes can’t reproduce naturally.

I know for most Minnesotans it is engrained in there head that stocking helps a lake, and it may to an extent, but at what cost?

I can remember as a kid how people would always know of a lake has been stocked. There is the mentality that stocking fish means good fishing and you’d always want to know was a lake stocked recently?

I’ve seen first hand the waste. Knife Lake in central Minnesota was reclaimed and has been stocked heavily for about about 20 years. The walleye fishing is fair at best. They could have spent that money improving the habitat of the river that flows into the lake and improved natural spawning and be done with it.

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X2

Couldn’t have said it better myself. Why the DNR spends precious dollars throwing Walleye fingerlings into a lake like DeMontreville is a mystery to me.

Long ago they found this to be true with the trout streams. Hatchery fish are inferior to native wild fish, and that habitat improvement is a significantly better investment than stocking is. The number of fish per river mile in a good stream…where nature has half a chance…is much better than can be achieved with stocking. Today you see stream improvement projects but nobody clamoring for stocking.

I think the same ideas apply to a lot of our lakes and rivers. We wouldn’t be enjoying the tremendous Sturgeon fishery on the Rainy River if that river hadn’t been cleaned up. Same thing with the Mississippi. We have Pool 2 providing a wonderful fishery right in the middle of the Twin Cities, but it didn’t happen until they started to clean up the river.

Rootski

At least they will NEVER have to stock POOL 4. …..rrr

Might be a good suggestion to have a reduced limit on stocked lakes, say 6 down to 4 and slot limits as well with minimum size restrictions. I know we all hate to have restrictions but when done correctly it is hard to argue their effectiveness.

Nice try so far Brian. Only considerate responses and no hate PMs.

DD, I should clarify my position. I wouldn’t say I am against all stocking.

I like the idea of the FIN program stocking small lakes for kids. And before anyone says, sure, that’s because they stock cats, I’d be for it if it were just bluegill. I don’t fish those lakes normally, but I think giving kids better opportunities is a good idea. Get the young spawn interested in fishing and be good stewards.

And say a lake experienced a winter kill, but where natural reproduction occurs, I am not against a temporary boost by stocking. I am not against stocking where some factor has caused a drop in recent year classes. There may be other instances to where I would agree that stocking would be a good idea.

The first 2 topics during the back porch part of the round table concerned stocking. One guy was talking about how walleye is the cash cow, but he never gave a reason why a sharp reduction in stocking would change that. After all, this is the land of 10,000 lakes and I’d say a vast majority have natural spawning populations of walleye. Certainly, no matter where you live, you are probably 15 miles away from a lake with a self sustaining population of walleye. And if you are a resort owner or town that depends on tourism, then maybe you should be privately funding your stocking needs.

So no matter what you fish for, about 20% of your license fee goes to stocking and stocking mostly walleye. Some people might not even fish stocked lakes, so what it results to is a a 20% subsidy from those that don’t fish stocked waters.

Its not that I am against walleye, I enjoy fishing for them too, but the majority of proponents are walleye fishermen and the majority of stocking is walleye. Just want to clarify that point.

Look what it did to Red lake and Leech Lake

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Nice try so far Brian. Only considerate responses and no hate PMs.

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It’s coming when Jeff H sees this.

There he is!

Jeff, if I recall those two lakes have very good natural reproduction as long as there’s a walleye in them to reproduce.

Er…two walleyes in them to reproduce.

Where do all the walleyes that are stocked end up? Maybe those that take them should pay for them (and by that I mean the muskies )

I Know! just couldn’t resit

It’s like dangling a ball of yarn in front of a kitten

Happy Birthday Pug

The stocking has worked in many other lakes not mentioned.

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Certainly, no matter where you live, you are probably 15 miles away from a lake with a self sustaining population of walleye.

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Not when you live in Rochester.

Like I said, I am not completely against stocking. There aren’t a lot lakes around Rochester in the first place, is there? Stocking in areas and regions where they are sparse would be fine by me.

As for Red Lake, I did give scenarios where it made sense. They stocked it and closed it for fishing for what, 10 years? And there is natural reproduction on the lake too, right?

You stock Walleye in Minnesota for one reason only…………..money.

Without tourism dollars this state dries up. It would be interesting to see the total dollars spent related to fishing and vacations from outstaters. I know there is a figure, I just don’t care enough to spend any time looking for it. You must remember that the DNR gets funding from the state and as such must kiss to the money people and legislators of the state. Can you imagine the uproar if you banned speed boats and cruisers on Tonka? Same thing happens when lakes aren’t stocked in certain districts.

Like it or not fishing is big business. Stocking programs are just a required side effect for the industry.

That’s the same line some guy was using. That might work if there was just 1 lake in Minnesota, but there are over 10,000 to choose from and if you want to catch walleye, you can find plenty of naturally reproducing lakes. Tourism won’t dry up without stocking.

If a certain region is void of walleye, then they should privately fund the stocking, since they are the ones that benefit, instead of having every angler in the state subsidize them.

Yes, fishing is big business, which is why you shouldn’t need a government subsidy.

I was for raising the license to keep the DNR from going into the red, but since the round table I have had a change of heart. I’d rather see them go into the red and force them, the legislature, Chambers of Commerce and sportsmen clubs to have to “suffer” as a result. It will force people to re-examine stocking programs and the culture that has been inbred into many a Minnesotan that stocking is required.

I am going to do some research, but the first painful fact I came across was that approximately 15% of fish harvested was stocked. That is a pretty general number, but 20% of the budget so you can 1 on 8 or 9 doesn’t seem very efficient to me.

By the way, that previous post was not me going after the messenger.

For what it is worth, I think things such as slot limits and reduction of possession limits were also suppose to kill tourism as well.

I feel like with this issue I am just going up against an angry pitchfork and shovel armed angry mob that is void of logic and reason.

So, by your thinking then ski resorts shouldn’t make snow. If you want to ski, book your trip and take your chances?

In your mind the Pohlads have no obligation to put a competitive team on the field even though they took public funding for the stadium?

“I feel like with this issue I am just going up against an angry pitchfork and shovel armed angry mob that is void of logic and reason.”

Good to see you are the only one with a valid opinion and capable of using any sort of logic.

I would have thought “pissing against the wind” might describe your stance also.

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by your thinking then ski resorts shouldn’t make snow.

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Not if they are using public money.

Pug, I’m glad you waited until we left the confined area of the hotel, I have a wife and dog to feed.

How about they just sell a license for each lake in the state. Then a portion of that license can go towards stocking. That way your $4.00 portion of license fee won’t go toward stocking lakes YOU don’t use.

Sounds more like ME, ME, ME policy.

I’ll duck out of this now as I’m not smart enough to form a logical opinion.

BTW, the state shouldn’t monitor pollution in our lakes and rivers either. It’s none of their business if we can light the water on fire or not.

Exactly. I bet skiers would be pissed if they had to buy a license to ski so a private company could make snow.

And looking at the record from this year, it does look like they aren’t obligated to put a good team on the field.

Yes, I am pissing in the wind, that is exactly my point with the mob mentality that we need to stock at all cost and no cost spared.

2013 can’t get here fast enough. I can’t wait to see the bellyaching then. And I will just be laughing as we purge things from the budget.

Brian, I didn’t bring it up because it would have just pissed people off and solidified their obstinance. I think like natural selection, it is better to let things take their course through a budget crisis.

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How about they just sell a license for each lake in the state. Then a portion of that license can go towards stocking. That way your $4.00 portion of license fee won’t go toward stocking lakes YOU don’t use.

Sounds more like ME, ME, ME policy.

I’ll duck out of this now as I’m not smart enough to form a logical opinion.

BTW, the state shouldn’t monitor pollution in our lakes and rivers either. It’s none of their business if we can light the water on fire or not.

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Geez, don’t get all offended. I retract that portion of the mob mentality remark, but if you were at the round table, you’d know what I mean. But I shouldn’t generalize.

The license is a good idea or maybe just allow private stocking, managed by the DNR.

I don’t even know where to start with the pollution comment. That isn’t even apple to oranges, it’s more like apples to roast beef.

The me, me, me crowd are the stocking proponents. Not everyone fishes for walleye. Not everyone fishes a stocked lake.

Well that’s 2 angry people Brian. Quite frankly I am disappointed. I figured there were more people in the weeds not piping in. Come to think of it, that was really why I used that language when saying mob mentality. I was trying to flush them out.

Maybe they are just cowards or they know I am right and they don’t have a leg to stand on.

Let me help you out a little more Pug.

There is a walleye stamp out there that’s to be used for stocking over and above what the DNR stocks.

How much of the money is raised by licensing fees for fishing and hunting and ATV/boat licenses each year? What percentage of that is “given” to the DNR to use as they see fit? I don’t believe the DNR should get 100% of that money, but I believe 70% – 75% should be put right back into the DNR. The other 25% are annual dues to the state for access to it’s resources. If the “arts” and other special interest groups can’t find a way to fund themselves, so be it. I know this will never happen, but it’s my pipe dream.

I think the state of Mn better figure out a way to balance the budget soon. I think we are all going to have to “give up” something. It’s not gonna be fun and I guarantee we will all complain. So, in summary, I might be agreeing with you to some extent Pug. I feel dirty!

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Maybe they are just cowards or they know I am right and they don’t have a leg to stand on.

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Watch it there Pug. You might fall off that HIGH HORSE

I have to agree to a certain point though. I believe they should focus on lakes where the stocking is taking and doing some good. There are a few lakes that are stocked and stocked and never take off. A great example of wasted stocking is Cleary Lake in Prior Lake. They dumped 1 million fry in there for a couple of years. This lake is about 8 feet deep at the deepest and very susceptible to winterkill.

I think you may also be a bit off in your thinking when you say that there is a natural producing walleye lakes within 15 minutes of every ones home. I believe there are very few of these lakes in the metro area. I can think of only a few off the top of my head. A good portion of the lakes are maintained by stocking only. Now you stop stocking all the lakes except self sustaining lakes and what happens? All the pressure is now geared towards the self sustaining lakes and they take a beating in a very short time.

Why do I feel like I have a hook in my mouth right now?

Here is a nice little read for you Pug.

Why Walleye?

Ok, 1 hour according to your link. “Most Minnesotans can find walleye fishing within an hour’s drive of home.”

Thanks for biting, I was afraid I was going to get skunked.

Let me preface this by saying the following is not sarcasm. I’d be interested in looking at numbers of stocked fish caught and/or harvested from lakes with little or no natural reproduction. If there was a region that had a lot of lakes like this, lets use the metro area as you did for an example. Say people were catching 40% stocked to 60% wild raised, that to me would be a good example of a lake that should be stocked.

After Brian’s initial prodding, I am softening a little. I don’t want to be so entrenched that I can’t change my mind. But I have not done any research or looked at studies to see the viability of stocking, both overall and in specific instances. Hopefully at some point I will have time to research it and pick the DNR’s collective brain.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a I high horse that ran off that I need to go catch.

Let them go broke then,

Fishermen, the “majority” of which are “walleye” fishermen, pay the majority of the license fees they collect.

After researching this topic I found some interesting information about east metro lakes. They completely rely on stocking to sustain a viable population. Without stocking this portion of the metro would be completely void of walleyes except the river. I was a little surprised because I actually thought there may be a few that did have natural reproduction.

My Question:

Hi,

I was wondering how many self sustaining walleye lakes there are in the metro area. Are there any of these lakes in the metro area or do they all rely on stocking to sustain a population?

Thank you, Mark

DNR Response:

Excellent question, Mark. The only natural reproduction of walleye in the East Metro Mgt Area (Anoka, Ramsey, Washington & Dakota Co.) occurs in the river systems. We have records of minimal reproduction occurring in Pleasant and Vadnais Lakes but you could argue that no natural reproduction would take place if they weren’t connected to the river.

When you consider the requirements for (successful) walleye reproduction to take place, think of lakes with rock rubble shoreline with long distances of wind fetch (Mille Lacs) or river systems entering the basin with the same rock and rubble bottom type (Seagull River).

If you do catch a walleye in an east metro lake you can be pretty certain it was hatched, raised and stocked by DNR-Fisheries.

Thanks for the note!

Gerald “Jerry” Johnson

MN DNR Fish and Wildlife

East Metro Area Fisheries Supervisor

1200 Warner Road, St. Paul MN 55106

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Let them go broke then,

Fishermen, the “majority” of which are “walleye” fishermen, pay the majority of the license fees they collect.

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And a majority of them will be crying when they are forced to start cutting back on stocking.

Then maybe we can finally get to a point where the places that really need it, where is makes sense and where it is successful. And the rest can just complain.

So do you even care about the return on investment with stocking or do you think that we should just throw as much fish in as many places as we can?

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So do you even care about the return on investment with stocking or do you think that we should just throw as much fish in as many places as we can?

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Sure I do.. just show me where you think it doesn’t work.
The return on investment comes back to the communities that thrive on a walleye fishing industry.

It’s not just for the fishermen.