EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT: SUNDAY LIQUOR SALES!

  • tegg
    Hudson, Wi/Aitkin Co
    Posts: 1450
    #1678152

    Do people actually drive across the border on Sunday’s to purchase alcohol? I get it if somebody from Lakeland, MN drives to Hudson, WI, and MAYBE somebody from the eastern most of Woodbury drives to Hudson. But from how far are people actually driving on Sunday? Nobody is really driving more than 10 minutes out of their way to do something they could have done any 6 other days of the week?

    Living in Hudson the answer is absolutely they do. More MN plates than WI plates. Not sure how far they travel though… Just a hunch but I bet they travel from at least McKnight Rd.

    sticker
    StillwaterMN/Ottertail county
    Posts: 4418
    #1678155

    I would be banana free until monday bawling unless I planned ahead waytogo

    How could you possibly plan for your buddy not only getting a pet monkey, but also stopping over on Saturday night with said hungry pet monkey? You’d need a crystal ball… jester

    pool2fool
    Inactive
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 1709
    #1678165

    Dunno if this thread is a lost cause already, but I was wondering if this will have any impact on breweries. In the near past we have seen a boom in breweries/taprooms due to fairly rapid changes in these older laws. One of the nice things that eventually came about was the legalizing of growler sales on Sundays. I like that a brewery is a local business, with local employees that makes and distributes a local product from start to finish. I have bought a few growlers on Sunday – but I have no idea how that day’s sale volume compares to the rest.

    I assume breweries profit most from their taprooms or with distribution (if they distribute), but who knows.

    This is a fair question and I’m looking forward to discussing it with the barkeep at my favorite tap room. . . when I stop by for a growler this Sunday after a day on pool 2.

    As to how this will affect the state’s bottom line — Drive to Hudson some Sunday, buy yourself an ice cream cone at DQ and sit out on the corner of 2nd and Coulee for a bit. Tally up the MN plates coming into town and watch as they filter into the Spirit Seller or Casanova’s parking lots, and then tell me the state won’t see increased tax revenue from this. Same scene plays out in Superior, La Crosse, Mason City, Sioux Falls, Fargo, etc.

    Heck, the Hudson Police Dpt. is gonna have to find a new revenue stream as well. I’m not ripping MN, I live here. It’s harrrrd to drive 25 when you’re used to moving 35.

    I can empathize with the mom & pop liquor stores competing with big boxes in a city like, for example, Saint Cloud. It could really hurt them and that’s unfortunate. I believe we should all do our best to support local business owners, wherever we live. But the hard truth is that they’ve been the beneficiaries of these blue laws for years. They’ve gotten comfortable with the status quo, but the status quo has never been an inalienable right. They’re gonna have to adapt. Business is hard. Survival of the fittest.

    FishBlood&RiverMud
    Prescott
    Posts: 6687
    #1678177

    Everything that is big box store was once mom and pop. Period.

    I personally have zero concern for a business owner who cannot compete with upcoming competition… That competitor is only present because they found a more profitable way.

    Any business who is not improving today for tomorrow is dying today.

    Such is life of business.
    Such is the demand of the consumer.

    Selling booze…. Come on, who isn’t making money doing that???

    Did you lucritevly open a business on a border to grab business from neighboring state? Enjoy the ride while it lasts… Nothing is lucritive forever.

    FishBlood&RiverMud
    Prescott
    Posts: 6687
    #1678179

    Everytime a new selection of booze is offered, someone else is selling less…Boo hoo.

    No crying for the booze manufacturers with each new manufacturer entering the business… Why cry for the booze distributors?

    nhamm
    Inactive
    Robbinsdale
    Posts: 7348
    #1678182

    Your arguments are valid if you think big business is a good thing.

    Power grows naturally, and in a capitalist system that power can lead to the cronyism we see nowadays which in the end screws the consumers from the other end.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1678186

    I cant believe this thread has garnered over 100 posts! Maybe some of you have come to this conclusion already and im just speaking to the choir but, I think the real reason why this is so controversial has at its core to do with religion. Sunday is traditionally a day of rest in the Christian faith. And this tradition has come into many MN families whether your family celebrates Christianity or not, so it amounts to a change from what’s customary. This is how many families viewed this day and the activities of that day followed the Christian ideas of reflection and taking time away from the grind to be with family.

    I didn’t realize this was such a heated subject when I posted this.
    Personally I never understood why liquor wasn’t sold on Sundays and I thought it was cool that this would no longer be the case. Now I realize that Sundays mean a lot more to some people and the thought of liquor (and the sometimes vile and corrosive behavior that accompanies it) being sold on this day is offensive to those that think of Sundays as something more sacred.

    Or, maybe im wrong.

    I agree with this. Unfortunately I think that the majority of the laws supporting this are now gone. This is kind of the last stand.

    john-o
    Hastings, MN
    Posts: 144
    #1678233

    “So the law is now and always has been a reflection of the values of the society in which it is found. But in truth there is no such thing as “society.” Society is merely the totality of the input that all of us, individually and through our institutions such as media, business and the like, create. “Society” includes as well all of those same inputs of everyone who came before us including parents, grandparents and others not related to us individually. But in the end, all of that input came from a person, not a thing called “society.” Some person created each value that we now attribute to “society.” When enough of us adopted that same value, it seemed to become some sort of accepted truth. Some of those “truths” became our law.

    Thus, the law is a reflection of each of our individual values, writ onto the larger canvas that we, for convenience if not literal correctness, call society. Having a “thing” to blame it on excuses our individual responsibility. We are the law in a very real sense. We are part of its creation and it reflects who we are.

    It follows that if the law is reflective of our individual values, then we have to examine those individual values and how we thus play a part in the shaping of the “societal” values. It requires a sense of ourselves. It requires a sense of our individual power and yes, responsibility for who we are as a “society” and the laws that reflect that society.”

    I think this quote is right on the mark.

    FishBlood&RiverMud
    Prescott
    Posts: 6687
    #1678245

    Your arguments are valid if you think big business is a good thing.

    Merely pointing out that CONSUMERS do think it is a good thing…..

    Thus the creation and sustainment of big business

    :Doah:

    jeff_huberty
    Inactive
    Posts: 4941
    #1678254

    “So the law is now and always has been a reflection of the values of the society in which it is found. But in truth there is no such thing as “society.” Society is merely the totality of the input that all of us, individually and through our institutions such as media, business and the like, create. “Society” includes as well all of those same inputs of everyone who came before us including parents, grandparents and others not related to us individually. But in the end, all of that input came from a person, not a thing called “society.” Some person created each value that we now attribute to “society.” When enough of us adopted that same value, it seemed to become some sort of accepted truth. Some of those “truths” became our law.

    Thus, the law is a reflection of each of our individual values, writ onto the larger canvas that we, for convenience if not literal correctness, call society. Having a “thing” to blame it on excuses our individual responsibility. We are the law in a very real sense. We are part of its creation and it reflects who we are.

    It follows that if the law is reflective of our individual values, then we have to examine those individual values and how we thus play a part in the shaping of the “societal” values. It requires a sense of ourselves. It requires a sense of our individual power and yes, responsibility for who we are as a “society” and the laws that reflect that society.”

    I think this quote is right on the mark.

    I need a drink after that one toast

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22380
    #1678268

    “Society” has been replaced by “he with the most money” whistling

    john-o
    Hastings, MN
    Posts: 144
    #1678270

    LOL. Love it Jeff.

    Kyhl
    Savage
    Posts: 749
    #1678272

    @John-o,
    First off, who made that quote?
    It is an interesting thought. It does not really argue to continue banning Sunday sales however it is an interesting lens to view the evolution of society, or “group think”. I like to think that this un-banning is based on logic rather than an spiritual attachment to something from generations ago.

    Someone once decided to help out fishermen by declaring that people should not eat red meat on Fridays during a certain time of the year, boosting the sale of fish, and the incomes of fishermen. Many people still follow that rule centuries later out of emotion.

    Same could be said of many things. To some people a ham and cheese sandwich is a double whammy.

    Neither of those rules are codified into laws in this state. I like to think they don’t exist as laws out of logic. In my mind, removing Sunday sales restrictions follows a similar evolution of societal thinking using logic over emotion.

    Another analogy that fits us, “don’t fish memories.” Use logic and analysis to find fish today. Fish have very short memories and may not be where you found them last year. Along those lines, use logic and analysis to figure out what laws should be written today instead of following memories of previous generations. The old rules may have been written with a certain outcome or protection in mind that may not hold true today.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22380
    #1678283

    follow the spawn, they really remember that somehow… toast

    john-o
    Hastings, MN
    Posts: 144
    #1678342

    Kyhl –

    The quote is from a lawyer – Ivan Hoffman.

    What I think he does a good job of saying is – 1. The law is a reflection of a society’s morality. 2. A society isn’t some faceless / nameless thing – it’s a group of people.

    Now I happen to look at things from a Christian world view, but it is obvious that the majority of the folks in the US look at the world from a secular point of view. Those secular values are being reflected in our laws. I don’t like it, but I get it.

    nhamm
    Inactive
    Robbinsdale
    Posts: 7348
    #1678384

    The quote is from a lawyer – Ivan Hoffman

    Well there ya go, that’s why he’s a lawyer.

    Any philosophical view would clearly defined what its main objective is before it rambled on and on like most of them do.

    In this case, to keep it simple, society is the interactions between such individuals. If you throw 1000 people in a room, it doesn’t make anything, its only until they interact with each other you start to form something yes?

    The interactions of a society in a world which is so entirely influenced by the mediums in which we interact, arguably the moral compass of such a society is not a compass at all.

    Don’t think I’ve ever said in this thread yet I’m for it or against Sunday sales. Right now I could give a rats ars about it. But big picture it does us no good to trivialize such matters. It’s worth a conversation.

    Kyhl
    Savage
    Posts: 749
    #1678410

    It is great food for thought. I like it.

    ______________
    Inactive
    MN - 55082
    Posts: 1644
    #1678443

    Here’s a timely documentary that dovetails nicely with our discussion on community, faith and booze.

    The Story

    The story of the rise and fall Prohibition, which lasted from 1920-1933, has long been a popular topic in American culture. Minnesota 13 explores a little-known side of this story that played out in the Midwestern heartland: the creation and distribution of a popular premium moonshine from Stearns County, Minnesota that came to be known as “Minnesota 13.”

    Widely regarded as the only branded moonshine of its day, by the peak of Prohibition Minnesota 13’s reputation and availability had spread throughout the country via various bootlegging networks. But the story of Minnesota 13 is not the typical Prohibition tale of gangsters and speakeasies, and Minnesota 13 was not the typical gut-burning moonshine of the day. Created by Catholic Church-going farmers, with the participation of nearly everyone in their communities from the priests and sheriffs on down, Minnesota 13 was a truly hand-crafted whiskey, often double-distilled and aged in oak barrels. And, it provided a finer-tasting and safer alternative to the ubiquitous bathtub gins and white lightening moonshines being produced elsewhere during the era.

    Minnesota 13 moonshine was named after the open-pollinated corn seed developed by the University of Minnesota in the late 1800s to stand up to the region’s shorter growing season, which had hindered other corn varieties. After the end of the Great War in 1918, with the disappearance of agricultural subsidies, the price of corn plummeted, leaving Minnesota farmer’s sheds full of it. What these farmers needed was a new market for corn. And the perfect storm of Prohibition, their surplus corn crops, and their brewing culture and know-how offered it in the form of Moonshine. Farmers in Central Minnesota soon discovered they could earn far more by using their surplus of corn to make whiskey than for a cash crop or to feed their livestock.

    These primarily German immigrants held firm to the beer drinking traditions brought with them from the Old Country. Notably, their local Catholic priests acknowledged that the making and selling of moonshine was by definition illegal, but they did not consider it immoral. Times were hard, and these families were forced to take extreme measures to simply put food on their tables and ultimately save their family farms, through making moonshine. And virtually everyone started doing it.

    Through interviews with historians and descendants of the original Stearns County moonshiners the film explores the lore, family secrets, and newly discovered pride in this previously untold story. A combination of present day footage, along with rich archival materials, brings viewers deep inside what has long been considered an insular and simple community, to reveal a previously untold history that is finding a striking new relevance in the emerging booming subculture of craft distilleries throughout the United States —one that is growing by a remarkable 30% each year, according to the American Distilling Institute. In addition to the historians and old-timers, we also follow the founders of one of the first new Minnesota micro-distilleries in the state, 11 Wells, on their quest to launch a distillery that is inspired by and seeks to honor the colorful past of prohibition era Minnesota 13 moonshine. Based in the old Hamm’s Brewery in East St. Paul, we follow the 11 Wells entrepreneurs from the build out of their new distillery, the cooking of their first batches, to their first products hitting the shelves: their own version of a legal Minnesota 13, and their attempts at reviving Minnesota 13 as a premium craft whiskey. The film explores this micro-distillery boom, as these eager entrepreneurs seek to preserve, protect, and promote Minnesota’s unique history of producing quality moonshine whiskey, modernizing it for more sophisticated palates and distributing it world-wide.

    http://mn13doc.com/

    Attachments:
    1. MN13atMSPIFF.pdf

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1678500

    If there’s anyone who reads this thread and can’t come up a common sense answer then they don’t need to be making any laws on liquor sales anyway.

    Bass_attack
    Posts: 292
    #1678507

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bass_attack wrote:</div>
    I would be banana free until monday bawling unless I planned ahead waytogo

    How could you possibly plan for your buddy not only getting a pet monkey, but also stopping over on Saturday night with said hungry pet monkey? You’d need a crystal ball… jester

    Maybe he hinted the weekend before in the fish house that he might pick up a monkey so I bought an extra bunch of bananas at the grocery store just in case he stopped by to raid the fruit basket with his hungry monkey. smile

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22380
    #1678516

    I received the Book Minnesota 13, was very interesting reading. In fact, across the street from where I work is Anton’s… a Fish and Steak House right on the Sauk River (think supper club) and that used to be a Speakeasy. Lot’s of history in that place. The monks at St. John’s Abbey were also excellent workers with copper and still making back in the day.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1678518

    It’s fun reading up on family history isn’t it G? toast

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22380
    #1678521

    for sure waytogo

    scherrman
    Eastern Iowa
    Posts: 18
    #1678530

    I find it interesting how some just assume that people who like this new law and travel to other states to by alcohol have a drinking problem. I guess I assume these are people who don’t drink at all.

    There are a lot of people the enjoy drinking socially. There are far fewer people that actually have a severe drinking problem. I live about 20 miles from the ILL/WI border and plenty of people in my area travel over to buy alcohol. Sometimes it’s for better prices, sometimes better selection and sometimes it’s for something that is only sold in that state. There are lots of people who drive to WI to buy New Glarus beer.

    Not sure why some automatically go to negative thoughts when talking about alcohol.

    crappie55369
    Mound, MN
    Posts: 5757
    #1678584

    I find it interesting how some just assume that people who like this new law and travel to other states to by alcohol have a drinking problem. I guess I assume these are people who don’t drink at all.

    There are a lot of people the enjoy drinking socially. There are far fewer people that actually have a severe drinking problem. I live about 20 miles from the ILL/WI border and plenty of people in my area travel over to buy alcohol. Sometimes it’s for better prices, sometimes better selection and sometimes it’s for something that is only sold in that state. There are lots of people who drive to WI to buy New Glarus beer.

    Not sure why some automatically go to negative thoughts when talking about alcohol.

    Thank you! Just because you buy beer on sunday doesn’t make you some ravenous drunk maniac who is out of control and some sort of social deviant. some of these people act like all those in favor are like the potheads in weed propaganda film refer madness.

    crappie55369
    Mound, MN
    Posts: 5757
    #1712863

    since it has been a little over a month now I was curious to know of how this change has played out? I actually haven’t purchased alcohol on Sunday yet. Haven’t had a need to.

    Also wonder if this has had a big negative impact on the stores at all. I know many had thought this would be bad for business in that it would increase overhead costs. I haven’t heard anything one way or another about that.

    Havent heard of increased DWI’s or domestic issues on Sundays. Kinda seems like this change came and went without changing much of anything. Small sample size so far to be sure.

    suzuki
    Woodbury, Mn
    Posts: 18523
    #1712878

    Im glad to hear this. I thought it was a waste of time and I happen to like our Blue Laws.

    slipbob_nick
    Princeton, MN
    Posts: 1297
    #1712882

    Have bought on a sunday 2-3 times. It was convenient not having to run into town on a Saturday night.

    404 ERROR
    MN
    Posts: 3918
    #1712884

    Still haven’t bought booze on Sunday. But at the same time, I don’t think I’ve bought booze at all since then.

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