Is it worth killing a fish?

Well here goes… This isn’t a attack on any lure maker. I’m hoping maybe here at IDA we could find some modifications to make them better…

Some of the most popular lures on the market today do a excellent job of catching fish. If fact some of the double bladed bucktails and the large rubber lures do too good of a job. I know of a few fish that have been gut hooked on these lures. With the big bucktails the fish are coming up from behind and attacking the blades and inhaling the entire lure. That back hook is ending up in deadly places and ALOT of fish are being killed. Same goes for large rubber lures…

What I am wondering is… has this happened to you? And if so have you changed the lures at all or quit fishing them? Any ideas on how to avoid this with a modification?

S-

I have had a few fish eat bulldawgs very deep. I have not had this happen with any of the double bladers, but when I fish those I am running them at 4-5 miles per hour, and the hook on those always seem to end up right in the mouth, thank god! With the fish that have eaten the plastics deep, I start cutting, some times that means cutting the bait in 1/2 to get at the really bad part. Cut hook, the bait, whatever it takes to get that fish back into the water. The reality of the entire thing, is that we are fishing and some fish are not going to make it, as bad as that sucks, that is the nature of the beast. I killed my 1st muskie 6 years ago, and it still feels like yesterday that it happened. What a terrible feeling! I was fishing with a big Torra Tube bait and the fish ate it so deep that I could only see the clasp on the end of the leader, the fish was dead when I got it to the boat, stone dead. This fish was caught on Baby lake, which has a 40″ min, and all I could do was dip her back into the water and leave her for turtle food. I was sick about this for a very long time. Had that fish been 40″ I would have taken it home and tried muskie for the 1st time. I will be interested to see if there are things that others are doing to not have this happen, but I think the outcome will still be the same in the long run, some fish are going to die, and that is just part of the game, as sad and as sickening as that may be Interesting post.

Steve, there is nothing you can do to avoid a deep hooked fish once in a while. The more agressive the fish are, the more it will happen. They are hitting the bait to eat it, not suck on it for flavor. You can make alterations to hooks for easier removal.. reducing the barb, etc which will help get the hooks out most of the time, but other times it wont help at all.

Its part of fishing, we can do all within our power to avoid it happening, but it still will on occasion. The ONLY way you are going to guarantee not gut hooking a fish is by not going fishing at all.

Is it worth killing a fish? It happens, all we can do is make every effort to avoid it. Catch and release has been very successful over the years.

I’ve only killed one muskie in 3 years of muskie fishing, but that is one too many. That was on a topraider and it completely swallowed the lure- 46 inches. I haven’t had much luck on the cowgirl, but the one I did catch on it, I hooked the fish perfectly in the corner of the mouth. However, my brother had one last year (53 inches), which I had witnessed, that totally engulfed his cowgirl so bad that you could not even see the lure when he reeled it in. The lure was partially in the gill as well, not good. Caught in November with very cold water temps may have saved that fish as it was released. It was bleeding a little as it swam away, but hopefully its still swimming today. Unfortunately, I have heard of a lot of dead fish this year, not neccessarily from the cowgirls but from a lot of other types of lures as well.

I agree with Bob. The only thing a guy can do is remove the bait as best as he or she can and hope for the best. Fish will sometimes die! That being said,I have to say that Musky fisherman(as crazy as the entire lot is)are truly dedicated to the safest release possible.
Manufacturers once in awhile come up with hot tickets that out produce other baits but isn’t that what it’s all about,better baits,more strikes and more fish in the net?

Do not get me wrong,this is a great thread and I am glad you touched on it,but by altering these innovative baits, by removing hooks,turning them barbless etc.wouldn’t that defeat the concept of making a better fish catching lure to begin with?
It would be great to have it both ways of course but in my opinion it is a “catch 22.”
Good post

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Well here goes… This isn’t a attack on any lure maker. I’m hoping maybe here at IDA we could find some modifications to make them better…

Some of the most popular lures on the market today do a excellent job of catching fish. If fact some of the double bladed bucktails and the large rubber lures do too good of a job. I know of a few fish that have been gut hooked on these lures. With the big bucktails the fish are coming up from behind and attacking the blades and inhaling the entire lure. That back hook is ending up in deadly places and ALOT of fish are being killed. Same goes for large rubber lures…

What I am wondering is… has this happened to you? And if so have you changed the lures at all or quit fishing them? Any ideas on how to avoid this with a modification?

S-

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From experience, the double bladed big bucktails kill more fish than any other bait, by far. The fish love to inhale the bait. It has been my personal choice to cut back on using them especially when fish are agressive and feeding. Not just me, but 4 other guys i fish with who are on the water 3-5/days week (lots of dead fish on the baits). I doubt people will cut back on them, since they do produce fish, there will just be more dead fish. The first 2 fish i ever caught on double bladed bucktails, i couldnt even see the lure while bringing the fish to the boat. I am glad to see Mr. Cady has brought this up. Thank you. I wonder if there is anything they can do to the baits, to help from getting hooked so bad or swallowed??

One might resort to a single barbless hook for the back? As most fish probably end up with the front hooks also when they are hooked somewhat deep. Eagle Tails are still using the double single hooks and catch plenty o’ fish.

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One might resort to a single barbless hook for the back? As most fish probably end up with the front hooks also when they are hooked somewhat deep. Eagle Tails are still using the double single hooks and catch plenty o’ fish.

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I like that idea. Yeah, why not single hooks on the DC’s.

Its easy to change out the hook to a single hook. Any large eye salmon hook will do.

I dont recommend completely barbless for muskies.. too easy for them to shake it out. If you file the top of the barb down to a triangle like shape when you look at the hook point.. the hook wont pop out of the fish easily, but you wont need a jackhammer to get the hook out either.

Muskies are very tough, especially if its cool outside. The time when one must really use caution is in months like august when the water can exceed 80 degrees, and its hot outside. I have said it before.. I will not target muskies in the hot months anymore because they can be very hard to revive even when out of the water a minimal amount of time.

I have a buddy that fishes Muskies out of one of those little one man inflatable pontoon rigs. He’s landed 45 inch fish out of metro lakes. However he didn’t like the idea of an angry Muskie, a couple of 7/0 treble hooks, and plastic inflatable pontoons. He swapped out all of the treble hooks with big single hooks and so far he doesn’t feel that he’s missed any fish that he might have gotten with trebles.

This same argument can be applied acroos species and presentations too. Take a three treble hook original floating Rapala and hook a Bass with it. There’s a good chance that the back treble could end up in the fishes gill or an eye. Nobody likes to see this happen but it does.

The first Muskie I ever hooked….I killed her dead. I was throwing a homemade Bucktail. I had raised this fish earlier so I had a pretty good idea she was around. Anyway as I’m retreiving the lure I felt the blade stop spinning. As a Bass fisherman that’s the kind of thing I look for, so I set the hooks Ka-POW!. And as I did I tore all the gills on one side completely off. She bled to death before I got her to the boat. That was 26 years ago and it’s still a bummer….

Rootski

I don’t have any experience in this area, bot your thread has really peaked my interest. Thank you for the info…
Keep up the good work on preservation Guys!

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The first Muskie I ever hooked….I killed her dead. I was throwing a homemade Bucktail. I had raised this fish earlier so I had a pretty good idea she was around. Anyway as I’m retreiving the lure I felt the blade stop spinning. As a Bass fisherman that’s the kind of thing I look for, so I set the hooks Ka-POW!. And as I did I tore all the gills on one side completely off. She bled to death before I got her to the boat. That was 26 years ago and it’s still a bummer….

Rootski

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That would be a pretty crappy introduction to muskie fishing I’d have to say that I’ve been very fortunate in this area and hopefully I never have to experience it either

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One might resort to a single barbless hook for the back? As most fish probably end up with the front hooks also when they are hooked somewhat deep. Eagle Tails are still using the double single hooks and catch plenty o’ fish.

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As far as Jeremy’s Idea I like it all a guy needs is a large single hook and maybe a piece of shrink tube and there shouldn’t be any excuses for missed fish

The dc-10 by llungen tails has a single treble design. Im interested in hearing if anyone has hooked up with one of those. I would like to seee a double cowgirl with one treble, positioned between the two exist now. I know when they were designing the bait the field testers modified the hook positions quite a bit as hook up percentage was tough as first. Fish smacking the blades. I am afraid the lungen dc 10 w/ one back hook may meet this fate. I am all for saving the fish, but I do like to catch them.

I have caught around 50 cowgirl fish and do notice a high percentage of gill hooked fish. The gill hook is not embeded but is definitely messing with the gills with the front hook stuck solid.

I have yet to kill one immediately as they released, but fear the delayed effects. That being said I have also caught many with messing or fouled gills. So is a gill tear a death sentence? No, but it cant help!

Nice post, Cady.

Got 2 off West Okoboji with the DC on Saturday 1 was corner of the mouth the other on the nose both well hooked. 1 was about 5th crank of the cast other was at boatside. 42″ and a 41″

I haven’t taken the time to alter any bucktails but I do have a high percentage of strikes with single hook plastics. Yes, I’ve lost fish but when I look at where I’m at in my learning curve, I still credit “escapes” to some noteable, angler error. When done right, I do get fish in to the boat and unhooking them certainly seems easier.

One lure I like but isn’t slaying fish like the DC’s is the 13″ Kilr Eel. When I catch a muskie on one of these, the back 5″ is hookless. If a fish inhales the lure, it has a ways to go before it gets into the back hook.

Perhaps, lengthening the DC style lure would make some difference? Think about the InHaler brand bucktails that have the blade dragging from the tail end. If there was a little more material length, be it a teaser plastic or elongated clump of feather/hair, would this possibly change he results of engulfed strikes? I have no idea but I know the theory makes all the difference in panfish.

Yes……… I hear the knee slapping laughter already but I never get deep hooksets if I put lure length behind the hook. Bait a plain hook and they stomach them constantly.

I’ve seen great results from the Eel……. so far, regarding hooksets, so I’m simply making a comparison to ponder any merit.

Mr. Cady? Have you tried dragging a 6-9″ hookless teaser behind a DC? If not, would you consider trying it?