Quote:
It honestly wouldn’t make a difference to me. As a guy that has owned a half dozen T8’s one is worth as much as the next. They’re a tool, and a darn good one, that helps me catch walleye.
That’s a total contradiction from buying a non-current and
saving $600.00 to it doesn’t matter to me if I’m paying
present day pricing for older product. (It’s a tool)
C’mon James….We’re a little smarter than that.
Quote:
Sorry James I forgot about your Yamaha affilitation.
I am in no way affiliated with yamaha. And never have been. I have paid full retail on every yamaha outboard I have ever owned.
Quote:
So it’s okay in the marine industry but I see you’ve skirted the non-current truck for new pricing scenario.
Can you get yourself there or are you sticking to your
marine industry mentality across the board???
The whole “model year” deal is a marketing ploy used by manufacturers to get people to buy new cars and trucks sooner. Take away the model year designation and people would no longer feel compelled to trade in their present car for the same car two years newer and at a significant increase in price with no real increase in utility.
Manufacture date, absent a noteworthy change in quality or technology, does not indicate greater or lesser value or usefullness.
Would you ask about the manufacture date for a TV? How about a lawn mower? Why would someone worry about manufacture date on a piece of machinery? I don’t think most people would if it wasn’t for the BaZZillions of marketing dollars spent each year convincing consumers that the car they bought last year isn’t good enough any more and that they’d live a happier life and sleep with prettier women if they had the latest and greatest version because it has new ground effects and throwback tail lights that their “old” car doesn’t.
People obviously equate motorcycles, boats and other luxury purchases with that same type of thinking… newer is better and then ultimately more valuable. I’m not one of those people.
Quote:
Quote:
It honestly wouldn’t make a difference to me. As a guy that has owned a half dozen T8’s one is worth as much as the next. They’re a tool, and a darn good one, that helps me catch walleye.
That’s a total contradiction from buying a non-current and
saving $600.00 to it doesn’t matter to me if I’m paying
present day pricing for older product. (It’s a tool)C’mon James….We’re a little smarter than that.
I should have clarified further at the time… and that’s why I edited that out of my original post. I didn’t have time to elaborate so I pulled that piece, but not before you quoted me.
To be clear… all T-8 kicker motors being sold by Lacannes Marine at the time I purchased that motor last season were priced at $2350. No mention of the year of the motor was ever made when I called to check on availablity or cost. It was new and I could have cared less if it was a 2002 or a 2006. I didn’t even notice it was a 2003 until I received my warranty cards and other paperwork in the mail.
I “saved” $600 by buying at Lacanes Marine over other dealerships I priced and not because I purchased a hold over motor versus a new motor. My point for including that I saved X amount of money, it was a point poorly made as I skipped right over it (the gal was pestering me a little to get off the pc), was to show that dealerships, honest ones at least, won’t necessarily gouge a customer on price when one model year is substituted for another. Motors bought in 2003 cost less than motors bought in 2007. That’s just basic inflation at work there. But Lacannes did NOT hit me with 2007 pricing… they charged me a fair markup over the price they paid for the 2003 motor I purchased.
Hopefully that’s more clear now. I certainly didn’t wish to insult anyone’s intelligence.
IIIGGGHHH 
Forget the vehicle comparison already. Yeah, its not like comparing apples to apples, or to oranges, or to any fruit or vegetable at all 
The only comparison would be buying a 2008 F-150 made in 2006 in 2008 and having a little plate on it say 2006 even though its a 2008. 
what?
I may have mispoken before, i’ll make what i was trying to say a little clearer. To answer your question, no my motor is not noted by Yamaha as an ’07, its not noted by them as anything, except an F90TLR. The receipt and registration simply show what year the engine was purchased new, mine 2007.
Forget about the production date plate on the engine mount because……..
Ex. A Yamaha F90TLR is a Yamaha F90TLR is a Yamaha F90TLR is a Yamaha F90TLR is a Yamaha F90TLR is a Yamaha F90TLR is a Yamaha F90TLR is a ………………………..etc. etc. etc. etc. etc…………………………….
If whoever you are financing through or selling an engine to doesn’t understand that a F90TLR purchased new in 2007 is just that, plain and simple, well then, 
it into them until they do i guess. I don’t see what the big deal about it is, NADA values are a bunch of crap anyways. Yamaha has simple, understandable reasons for doing what they are doing, but apparently not to some people.
iiiggghhh 
Quote:
Quote:
And worse yet, a motor sitting for 2 years WILL have issues with gaskets drying out, and other “gremlins” that won’t show up until you begin to use it.
Not true. I’ve ALWAYS purchased hold over motors, my last was a new 2003 yamaha T-8 purchased late 2006. It ran perfectly from the word go. I have never, ever, heard of any problems with hold over motors caused by dried out gaskets.
YOU may not have has issues, but others have. Simple fact.
Quote:
Quote:
Another issue is that during that 2 year period, all of the manufacturers make improvements and “tweaks” to the newer built motors, particularly the DFI 2 strokes. Are those motors sitting in the crates getting updated by the dealer? Not very likely, so you in fact ARE getting an older, possibly inferior motor.
Again, not true. The yamaha site clearly states that they do NOT make significant technology changes from one year to the next without changing the name of the motor. So if you buy a T-8 made in 2002 it is basically the same motor made in 2007.
Sorry, but ALL manufacturers tweak the PCM’s based on field data and cutomer issues that are fed to them through dealer repairs. They also have minor updates and improvements that come down to the production floor as needed. This is not limited to outboard manufacturers, but ALL manufactured goods. Having worked at Catarpillar, they will stop a production line to retool something, as they receive data from dealers. Do they retrofit the units in the field or at the dealers? NO. The same will happen with outboards.
And NO ONE said anything about demanding a motor made in the last 30-90 days, just 6-12 months like it has been for years.
Bottom line, if you want to pay the 2008 price for a 2005 motor, go ahead. No skin off anyones nose. I just won’t do it. Either the dealer sells me a motor made within the last 6-12 months, or I take my business to one that will.
BTW, when I bought my 2001 Crestliner with a 2000 motor, I got $1300 off the price for non-current. When I bought my 2003 Stratos with a 2003 Yamaha in 2004, I saved $7000. THAT is how non-current sales should be handled.
I still say that this is nothing more than manufacturers and dealers trying to avoid cutting prices on non-current items.
Glenn
I don’t mean to insult anyone either, i just can’t really see where some of u r coming from.
I guess i can understand that u may be upset thinking u r getting a brand new engine made the day before u get it, and then find out it was made the year before, (u know what im trying to say) but it just doesn’t matter, it has nothing to do with anything.
I guess i don’t know what else to say that the James or my prior reply’s haven’t. I guess like my quote says, “you do your thing and i’ll do mine”.
Good discussion though, i guess 
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And worse yet, a motor sitting for 2 years WILL have issues with gaskets drying out, and other “gremlins” that won’t show up until you begin to use it.
Not true. I’ve ALWAYS purchased hold over motors, my last was a new 2003 yamaha T-8 purchased late 2006. It ran perfectly from the word go. I have never, ever, heard of any problems with hold over motors caused by dried out gaskets.
YOU may not have has issues, but others have. Simple fact.
Thankfully the manufacturers are so confident that this is NOT an issue that they give a full warranty to all new motors regardless of the amount of time between the build date and the day of sale.
Quote:
BTW, when I bought my 2001 Crestliner with a 2000 motor, I got $1300 off the price for non-current. When I bought my 2003 Stratos with a 2003 Yamaha in 2004, I saved $7000. THAT is how non-current sales should be handled.
I still say that this is nothing more than manufacturers and dealers trying to avoid cutting prices on non-current items.
Glenn
There will always be deals out there on excess inventory. That will never change for those willing to do the hunting.
James,
It sounds like your just the guy the dealership wants
to sell a 2007 2005 motor to. They need more of you!!
When I go to sell my $350.00 lawn mower I don’t think
anyone is going to be asking what they should be paying
for it 5 years after it was manufactured. Same would hold
true the other items your mentioned like T.V.’s and smaller machinery.
So when you go to buy that used truck that someone else
has absorbed the biggest depreciation hit on, how do you determine used retail value. Is it a “tool” that’s going
to pull your office to the river so whatever they are
asking is what your going to pay?? Do you mind if they
are taking a price two years ahead of their truck year
because the dealer wrote it up 2 years ahead??
Are you even going to look at the year of the truck??
Are you even going to look at what “the fools paid” to buy it new??
If you have no affiliation with Yamaha, and are paying
“full retail” for your outboards, why are you going to pay
the same price for a 2005 motor that John Q. is paying for
a 2007????????
The only reasons I can think of is that your either going to keep it forever or your going to beat it to death and give it away.
As Derek Johnston stated earlier there is a 2K price difference in one model year on an F150. (NADA)
Until they change that to read all F150’s are worth
the same amount regardless of year manufactured, I’m
going to get the newest motor or I’m asking for a
price reduction on a non-current.
You can call me a fool for doing so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
why are you going to pay
the same price for a 2005 motor that John Q. is paying for
a 2007????????
because…
Quote:
A Yamaha F90TLR is a Yamaha F90TLR is a Yamaha F90TLR is a Yamaha F90TLR is a Yamaha F90TLR is a Yamaha F90TLR is a Yamaha F90TLR is a ………………………..etc. etc. etc. etc. etc…………………………….
oh yeah and
Quote:
Forget the vehicle comparison already. Yeah, its not like comparing apples to apples, or to oranges, or to any fruit or vegetable at all The only comparison would be buying a 2008 F-150 made in 2006 in 2008 and having a little plate on it say 2006 even though its a 2008. what?
Quote:
I’m going to get the newest motor or I’m asking for a price reduction on a non-current.
You can call me a fool for doing so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would expect everyone to try and get the best price possible. To do otherwise just wouldn’t be American.
As far as dealerships wanting to sell stuff to guys like me… there’s more than a few of my friends chuckling about that one. I’m frugal. 
Fear this!!
2005 F90 TLRD Average Retail $5620.00
2006 F90 TLR Average Retail $6660.00
2007 F90 TLR Average Retail $(________) Fill in blank.
Less sales tax.
Statistics provided by NADA. The source your buyer will
be using!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sleep tight!!
…………..
Quote:
Quote:
I’m going to get the newest motor or I’m asking for a price reduction on a non-current.
You can call me a fool for doing so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would expect everyone to try and get the best price possible. To do otherwise just wouldn’t be American.
As far as dealerships wanting to sell stuff to guys like me… there’s more than a few of my friends chuckling about that one. I’m frugal.
Frugal people wouldn’t take the chance of possibly losing
money down the road by paying “full retail” for an older
motor.
Frugal people protect their money.
This “new rule” is a win/win for the dealer. They win when
the sale is made, and they’ll win again if you ever go
to trade it in. I can hear it now, so the boat is a 2007,
and lets see the motor is a 2005, so we can only give
what this little book says we can…………
You think that buying a new truck is one of the most foolish things a person can do.
But you think it’s okay to pay “full retail” on a motor
that has already depreciated sitting in a crate in the
back room of a dealership for over a year??
That’s another contradiction.
Where is our Boat lender? (Bob Bowman)
I would like to hear what the Credit Union has to say on this.
Yes, the motor is “new”……but why pay full price for an older motor, when you will suffer on resale?
And
Why pay full price on an older motor?
Discounts are given on every other type of recreational toy (jet-skis, boats, snomobiles, motorcyles, etc) when they are from the previous year and still in the crate, an out board should not make a difference.
Gary,
Funny you should ask about Bob Bowman.
CCFCU would have been financing these non-current motors
if I had decided to take delivery!
Dan
Not to hijack as this is a related question: has the market changed that much in the past 3-4 years? When I bought my boat, I bought a 2002 holdover (brand new, just previous year) in 2003. I had to wait a couple of weeks for the dealer to get another shipment of Yamaha’s in. So I’ve got a 2003 motor on a 2002 boat/trailer. From the sounds of it, you guys are saying the motors are abundant now.
JD
Quote:
Where is our Boat lender? (Bob Bowman)
I would like to hear what the Credit Union has to say on this.Yes, the motor is “new”……but why pay full price for an older motor, when you will suffer on resale?
And
Why pay full price on an older motor?
Discounts are given on every other type of recreational toy (jet-skis, boats, snomobiles, motorcyles, etc) when they are from the previous year and still in the crate, an out board should not make a difference.
Sorry, I just got a chance to look at this post today. Gary, I had a very similar conversation yesterday with Dan about purchasing non-current, the vaule of resale down the road, and the fact that the dealer was not offering any kind of discount. My recomendation was to check with another Alumacraft dealer in the area and see if this was the norm. I have not seen this all that often. To be honest, I purchased my last Alumacraft from Hallberg Marine, and everything from the boat, motors, and trailer were all the same year, so this seemed a little strange to me when I got off the phone with Dan. As far as the financing at the CU. We will finance non-current items, but the times I have seen these non-current items come across on a purchase agreement, there is a discount. The other thing that blew me away, was the purchase agreement. Everything, and I mean everything, was marked as 2007.
Quote:
Gary,
Funny you should ask about Bob Bowman.
CCFCU would have been financing these non-current motors
if I had decided to take delivery!Dan
I should also mention that when we do finance these non-current items, we typically look at them as new collateral. Giving the member the best possible rate, being that the boat and motor has not hit the water, we still look at it as new collateral. As I have stated above, the times that I have financed non-current items, there has always been a discount, and the items were not marked as 2007 on a purchase agreement, when it was really a 2005.
Bob,
I think the question that goes with this, is there going to be an impact when lending on a used motor?
If the date of manufacture of the boat is 2007, but the motor is 2005, will that impact the interest rate, or ability to borrow against?
I know my credit unoin will only finance used items that are 7 years old or newer (generally). So if I buy a used 2007 boat, a motor manufactured in 2000, this becomes an issue. Granted, there will likely be a major change in the motor in that time, but not always. Some of the V-4 motors don’t change for over 10 years.
Thanks for giving us your perspective from a lending standpoint.
Glenn
I would say that if we are talking about a year or two differance between boat and motor, the loan would still be looked at as new collateral. If we are talking about a 5 year differance, then we are looking at the exception. Can I still finance somthing like this as new. yes, but that would be the exception. This is where the credit union stands out. We will look at credit worthyness, and make that exception based on what we are dealing with. I just did a loan very similar to this a week ago. I had a member that found a great deal on a 2006 boat with a 1999 motor. We sat down and put the deal together, and that deal was done as a new collateral loan, at the best possible rate I could offer. Will this happen with every deal, most likley not, but it all comes down to the borrower, and credit worthyness. As far as the NADA deal, the book does not reflect what the market is actually at with boats in my honest opinion. 
How does this affect insurance policies? I have a 2006 boat with a 2005 motor and I was told by the dealer to tell the insurance company that it is a 2006 because if I ended up thrashing the motor in 2006, I would have to pay out of my own pocket to cover the gap to replace the 2005 with a 2006. It might just be salesman talk since the insurance company has the serial number so they know all the details of the motor??
I got a discount on the price so if I had to pay out of pocket to get the 2006, it would have evened out. But if you are paying the same price for a 2005 as you would with a 2007 and your insurance company will only give the value as a 2005, then you wouldn’t recover the amount between the two years? I’m not too familiar with how insurance companies determine the replacement value (and hope I never do!).
Quote:
How does this affect insurance policies? I have a 2006 boat with a 2005 motor and I was told by the dealer to tell the insurance company that it is a 2006 because if I ended up thrashing the motor in 2006, I would have to pay out of my own pocket to cover the gap to replace the 2005 with a 2006. It might just be salesman talk since the insurance company has the serial number so they know all the details of the motor??
I got a discount on the price so if I had to pay out of pocket to get the 2006, it would have evened out. But if you are paying the same price for a 2005 as you would with a 2007 and your insurance company will only give the value as a 2005, then you wouldn’t recover the amount between the two years? I’m not too familiar with how insurance companies determine the replacement value (and hope I never do!).
There is a product called GAP Insurance, and it will cover up to 125% of the value. The cost of Gap at the CU is $300.00, this is not a monthly charge, but a flat fee for the term of the loan. The other nice thing about GAP with the CU, is that if you have to use it on a total loss, the CU gives you a $1000.00 twards the purchase of a replacement boat/motor if financed with the CU again
I have GAP on both my trucks and boat. I paid $250 each from my credit union.. Nice to have when your insurance company gives you a check for 1/2 of what the boat is worth. 
Quote:
I have GAP on both my trucks and boat. I paid $250 each from my credit union.. Nice to have when your insurance company gives you a check for 1/2 of what the boat is worth.
Quote:
How does this affect insurance policies?
B Curtis,
Good point! I didn’t even consider the possibility of
taking it in the shorts again from the Ins. Co.
I did tell my co. that they were 2007 motors and because
Yamaha has dropped the year designation character from
their model numbers I guess the only way they would find
out that they weren’t 2007’s is if the adjuster looked on both sides of the motor mount and saw the date of manufacture.
Then it could be an issue.
Thanks for bringing it up.
Dan
Well, I’ve read the entire thread,and I’m with Glenn, dandorn, & Gary Wellman on this one. Someone’s getting the short end here, and it’s not the dealer(s). Gregory
I have received a reply from NADA. What this tells me is, even though a 2005 motor is sold as a 2007, it will still be valued as a 2005, making the value less.
This WILL have an impact on loan values and insurance settlements!
Glenn,
Thank you for your inquiry. NADA Marine Appraisal Guides bases its research on model year and condition. At this time, there are no plans to change this format. We are always observing industry trends and will watch this one as well. Realize that not all outboards manufacturers are eliminating the model year designation and for the ones that are staying with model year designation their sales have increased slightly.
As you mentioned Yamaha, they have stated they will no longer carry a model year on their statement of origin but will carry a production month/year for the outboard.
The manufacturers that do switch to remove the model year will stamp their motors with a production date. This production date will identify the manufactured month/year which will help to id a “model year” for us. Model years for outboard motor manufactures traditionally start July 1st to June 30 – This is noted in their brochures.
Sincerely,
Troy Heidemann
Assistant Editor
NADA Appraisal Guides
ph: 800.966.6232 x 261
fx: 714.556.8715
e: [email protected]
Quote:
I have received a reply from NADA. What this tells me is, even though a 2005 motor is sold as a 2007, it will still be valued as a 2005, making the value less.
This WILL have an impact on loan values and insurance settlements!
How am i ever going to sleep tonight!!?, NADA says my new motor is junk!!! Better throw her on the scrap heap and get a new new new one! 
O my golly flippin gosh, u gotta me kidding me!
Their vehicle prices, yeah, they are pretty realistic for the most part. As far as the boats and outboards go, not even close in my opinion. Way off base with the actual market, they r a joke.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
