Battery Question

  • rgeister
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts: 972
    #1234834

    Quick one for opinions and facts…

    I plan to replace my batteries this year in my Ranger. I have been using Trojan batteries, and have had terrific success with long life, multiple years of use, and was going to replace them with Trojans again, but before I shell out the cash, was wondering if spending a wee bit more on the Optima’s is worth it? Are gel types that much better for the coin? Do they give more years of service? Is there another brand I might consider, too, that others feel strongly about? If so, why?

    Thanks, guys…I posted here because I want the opinions of the bass guys that drain and drag their boats all over with the the trolly all day long on the river fighting current…the type of use these will get.

    Hope everyone is staying warm and looking forward to 6-7 weeks from now… soft water is right around the corner!

    waterfowler99
    Midwest
    Posts: 1514
    #534723

    this may not mean a squirt of pee but i will say it any way. i bought one a few years back for a flat with a 12 volt trolling motor. the reason i made the purchase was #1 i wanted to mount it side ways in a compartment i had room in, and #2 the “spiral cell technology” was supposed to give the battery better charge carrying capacity, and hold a charge a certain percent longer than a standard deep cycle- well i bought a new blue-top charge it off the shelf for 24 hr or more and ran it through 3 charge cycles. at no time did it last anymore time than a 69.00 farm and fleet deep cycle. so i returned it for a regular battery. again-this was only a single battery on a 12 volt system. so the 50 dollar more charge for that battery was not worth it for me.–tim

    cade-laufenberg
    Winona,MN/La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 3667
    #534724

    I’m looking at getting a new battery too. WF99, since you used a 12 volt, Could you give me your thoughts on how long you should expect a 42 lb powerdrive should run on a 12 volt? Currently I’m probably getting about 2 hrs out of it before it starts to slow down. Granted thats 2 hard hours, but its just not cutting it. I want to get a new one but wondering how much difference it will make…did i mention the old one is like 5 years old and it was an old cranking battery that would no longer crank my dad’s boat??

    waterfowler99
    Midwest
    Posts: 1514
    #534727

    2 hrs is about all you can get at full power on a 12 volt and you will notice a definite decrease in blade rotation. but if your not in current, put it on 3 and they will last 5-6 hrs i always go back to my truck for a fresh battery when i am making a day of it

    bassbaron
    eldridge, ia
    Posts: 709
    #534729

    I believe that they last longer with each charge. I have not been able to tell if they last longer overall. I have been using optima for about 5 years now. Initially i was using a 12 volt and upgraded to a 24 volt system about 3 years ago. I have not had to replace the batteries since (the original one i still use on my 2 man). One lake i fish on is trolling motor only. I fished 2-3 different 9 hour tournaments here and never ran out of juice. I was going to run the motor longer to see how long it would go but forgot. They do not lose charge as the day goes on- my understanding is that they just all of a sudden “bonk” so to speak. I like the low maintenance aspect and they are shock proof and can be mounted any way which is nice. (Mine are yellow top by the way). They are also significantly smaller and weigh less which i believe makes them worth the difference, especially with a 24 or 36 volt system in the back of your boat. I would recommend them based on my experience.

    willie boy
    Cornhusker Central ... HELP!
    Posts: 241
    #534805

    Bassbaron:
    Great comments…thank you very much for the illuminating information…I’m about to enter the ‘decision arena’ myself and, fishing out of a little aluminum skiff weight is an issue…course, if I really wanted to decrease the weight in my boat I’d start running

    ‘William’ (the new refrigerator)

    greg-vandemark
    Wabasha Mn
    Posts: 1096
    #534806

    I am going on my 7th year with my set of Optimas….

    cade-laufenberg
    Winona,MN/La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 3667
    #534812

    good info guys. I want to make the switch to a 24 V system, however the weight of 2 batteries is not appealing to me. I’m only supposed to have 500 lbs in my boat and any extra weight slows it down a lot

    timdomaille
    Rochester Mn
    Posts: 1908
    #534816

    I have always run A/C Delco’s. This last year I ran Lightning Dry cell. Seem to work just fine and never run out of power.

    mossboss
    La Crescent, MN
    Posts: 2792
    #534856

    I think I remember reading something about you can’t use them with an on-board charger that puts out more than 10 amps or something?

    I think they are a pretty interesting idea, but be sure to check into all the technicalites of them before you buy them. I have seen guys on some boards swaer by them though. They are intersting.

    rgeister
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts: 972
    #534930

    Interesting point, ModdBoss…

    I have the 15 Amp per batter charger with the built in “charge as you run” feature…

    Anyone in this situation with Optima?

    D-Nort – you always have something to say with guys you know… Anything?

    rgeister
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts: 972
    #534989

    I was send a PM including the following…

    “AGM: The Absorbed Glass Matt construction allows the electrolyte to be suspended in close proximity with the plateƕs active material. In theory, this enhances both the discharge and recharge efficiency. Actually, the AGM batteries are a variant of Sealed VRLA batteries. Popular usage high performance engine starting, power sports, deep cycle, solar and storage battery. The AGM batteries we sell are typically good deep cycle batteries and they deliver best life performance if recharged before the battery drops below the 50 percent discharge rate. If these AGM batteries are discharged to a rate of 100 percent the cycle life will be 300 plus cycles and this is true of most AGM batteries rated as deep cycle batteries.

    GEL: The gel cell is similar to the AGM style because the electrolyte is suspended, but different because technically the AGM battery is still considered to be a wet cell. The electrolyte in a GEL cell has a silica additive that causes it to set up or stiffen. The recharge voltages on this type of cell are lower than the other styles of lead acid battery. This is probably the most sensitive cell in terms of adverse reactions to over-voltage charging. Gel Batteries are best used in VERY DEEP cycle application and may last a bit longer in hot weather applications. If the incorrect battery charger is used on a Gel Cell battery poor performance and premature failure is certain.”

    Hmmm… Now I have MORE choices… AGM… Anyone have experience with these?

    brovarney
    Posts: 662
    #535029

    Remember to strap the new ones in.

    It is amazing how fast water comes into the boat when one cuts loose and smashes the livewell pump.

    champman
    la crosse
    Posts: 280
    #535056

    Quote:


    Interesting point, ModdBoss…

    I have the 15 Amp per batter charger with the built in “charge as you run” feature…

    Anyone in this situation with Optima?

    D-Nort – you always have something to say with guys you know… Anything?



    i want to know what kind of charger you have reel guy, because i’ve never seen one advertised more than 10 amps per bank?! Wouldn’t your power cord melt right off the wall?

    sliderfishn
    Blaine, MN
    Posts: 5432
    #535086

    Quote:


    i’ve never seen one advertised more than 10 amps per bank?! Wouldn’t your power cord melt right off the wall?


    Promariner has some that will run 30 amps.

    Ron

    netboy
    Posts: 15
    #535123

    I,ve been using deep cycles since 1983.Over the years the best bang for the buck. It’s EverStart that I found lasted the longest with a 24V system.And a 10A per channel on board charger.4 year life,$65 a pop & there’s always Wal-Mart near by,if they take sh..

    davenorton50
    Burlington, WI
    Posts: 1417
    #535147

    Reel Guy – You can look at every study out there. All of them will show the overall best deep-cycle out there is the Trojan…

    Although, Optima’s are normally not included in the studies since they are different. Are Optima’s worth the extra money? Probably. But I think you will be just fine with the Trojans…

    rgeister
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts: 972
    #535301

    Good info…

    “Gelled batteries (Optima types), or “Gel Cells” contain acid that has been “gelled” by the addition of Silica Gel, turning the acid into a solid mass that looks like gooey Jell-O. The advantage of these batteries is that it is impossible to spill acid even if they are broken. However, there are several disadvantages. One is that they must be charged at a slower rate (C/20) to prevent excess gas from damaging the cells. They cannot be fast charged on a conventional automotive charger or they may be permanently damaged. This is not usually a problem with solar electric systems, but if an auxiliary generator or inverter bulk charger is used, current must be limited to the manufacturers specifications. Most better inverters commonly used in solar electric systems can be set to limit charging current to the batteries.

    Some other disadvantages of gel cells is that they must be charged at a lower voltage (2/10th’s less) than flooded or AGM batteries. If overcharged, voids can develop in the gel which will never heal, causing a loss in battery capacity. In hot climates, water loss can be enough over 2-4 years to cause premature battery death. It is for this and other reasons that we no longer sell any of the gelled cells except for replacement use. The newer AGM (absorbed glass mat) batteries have all the advantages (and then some) of gelled, with none of the disadvantages.

    AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries
    A newer type of sealed battery uses “Absorbed Glass Mats”, or AGM between the plates. This is a very fine fiber Boron-Silicate glass mat. These type of batteries have all the advantages of gelled, but can take much more abuse. We sell the Concorde (and Lifeline, made by Concorde) AGM batteries. These are also called “starved electrolyte”, as the mat is about 95% saturated rather than fully soaked. That also means that they will not leak acid even if broken.

    AGM batteries have several advantages over both gelled and flooded, at about the same cost as gelled:
    Since all the electrolyte (acid) is contained in the glass mats, they cannot spill, even if broken. This also means that since they are non-hazardous, the shipping costs are lower. In addition, since there is no liquid to freeze and expand, they are practically immune from freezing damage.

    Nearly all AGM batteries are “recombinant” – what that means is that the Oxygen and Hydrogen recombine INSIDE the battery. These use gas phase transfer of oxygen to the negative plates to recombine them back into water while charging and prevent the loss of water through electrolysis. The recombining is typically 99+% efficient, so almost no water is lost.

    The charging voltages are the same as for any standard battery – no need for any special adjustments or problems with incompatible chargers or charge controls. And, since the internal resistance is extremely low, there is almost no heating of the battery even under heavy charge and discharge currents. The Concorde (and most AGM) batteries have no charge or discharge current limits.

    AGM’s have a very low self-discharge – from 1% to 3% per month is usual. This means that they can sit in storage for much longer periods without charging than standard batteries. The Concorde batteries can be almost fully recharged (95% or better) even after 30 days of being totally discharged.

    AGM’s do not have any liquid to spill, and even under severe overcharge conditions hydrogen emission is far below the 4% max specified for aircraft and enclosed spaces. The plates in AGM’s are tightly packed and rigidly mounted, and will withstand shock and vibration better than any standard battery.

    Even with all the advantages listed above, there is still a place for the standard flooded deep cycle battery. AGM’s will cost 2 to 3 times as much as flooded batteries of the same capacity. In many installations, where the batteries are set in an area where you don’t have to worry about fumes or leakage, a standard or industrial deep cycle is a better economic choice. AGM batteries main advantages are no maintenance, completely sealed against fumes, Hydrogen, or leakage, non-spilling even if they are broken, and can survive most freezes. Not everyone needs these features.”

    rgeister
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts: 972
    #536210

    I must post my most recent findings…

    Gel Cell and AGM Battery’s do NOT outlast standard wet-cell deep cycle batteries. In fact, I was instructed from several manufacturers of BOTH types that marine applications are more well suited for standard wet-cell batteries… especially if you run your batteries hard, approaching 30% of the charge capacity, as these batteries cannot fully recover from a “Drain” like many of us do…

    In lieu of spending money on this technology, I was informed by many to simply buy the BEST deep cycle wet cell, and money typically validates quality… which is battery life, battery capacity, and battery capabilities.

    And, after some independant research, Trojan is by far the leading manufacturer. They make the Minnkota batteries, so either brand will carry the high quality and engineering of the Trojan battery company.

    Hope this post helps some… I know I appreciated the commentary and input here from the many seasoned anglers/boat guys. PMs, too! Without this input and research I would have bought into the marketing campaigns and spent money on an inappropriate utilzation of the technology. Once again, IDA proves invaluable!

    Dropshot
    Bristol, WI.
    Posts: 140
    #536540

    where can I find Trojan batteries? I have a 36 volt trolling motor. What do trojans run price wise?

    rgeister
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts: 972
    #536744

    Gander Mountain in LaCrosse… they range depending on the battery. I have used and will be replacing them with the SCS225 for the boat trolly – they run ~$139 a piece.

    Otherwise, check here.

Viewing 22 posts - 1 through 22 (of 22 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.