E-Tec, OptiMax and HPDI go head-to-head

James, to push the walleye boats as fast as the bass boats, we would need a 550HP Opti and 550 Yammy Hammer.

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I can understand why the bass guys like to talk about high horse power motors… their boats actually go… FAST. Even the fastest walleye boat is nothing to get excited about.

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What’s fast? Tundra’s with 275 Verado’s are 65+ mph rigs. They run in the upper 50’s with 60 gallons of fuel and a tourney load with the 225 XS. I hit 52-53 mph with min fully loaded and a full livewell with a regular 225 Opti and I haven’t even worked at dialing it in. Remember now, that’s a TWENTY ONE FOOT THREE INCH BOAT, no 8″ setback in the number otherwise she’d be 22′ as some boat companies measure!

Todd

A 65 MPH walleye rig is a fast walleye boat with nearly all walleye rigs “stuck” with top speeds of 53 – 58 MPH, loaded. If a Tundra with a 275 can hit those numbers… I wouldn’t consider it “exciting” by any means… but it is a pretty fast walleye boat.

In my last boat I went WOT… twice. In two years… lol I hate frequent gas stops more than I’m worried about being beat to a spot I guess.

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James, to push the walleye boats as fast as the bass boats, we would need a 550HP Opti and 550 Yammy Hammer.

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Will they be available in a tiller?

I’ll have to be satisfied with being the second or third guy to the spot and focus more on out-fishing the early arrivers once I get there… lol

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I’d like to see the next test done on reliability. I think the world knows who is already and has been on top.

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Nice one Derek..

Ya know…I could care less about going 90mph and having a monster motor on the back of my boat. I know most anglers would agree with me. Why can’t they do tests on what most people buy…25hp-150hp??? Plus I know a lot of people care about only a couple things. RELIABILITY, FUEL CONSUMPTION, and WILL THE DEALER STAND BEHIND YOU FOR SERVICE OR PROBLEMS….Can’t test reliability because each motor is unique….Can’t really test a dealer until that time comes, a lot say they have good service until you need it…..Fuel consumption can be tested, but who cares when you are fishing really… so a Yammy gets .2 gallon less than an Evinrude….Ya pay to play…

JUST MY TAKE ON THIS!

I think I was in your boat for one of those rides when we got chased off the pond by that nasty thunder storm.

That was one heck of a ride!!!

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In my last boat I went WOT… twice. In two years… lol I hate frequent gas stops more than I’m worried about being beat to a spot I guess.

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Everyone defines fast differently.

I’m hearing an awful lot about fuel consumption on this board. I get asked a ton about it at boat shows.

Here’s the deal. To each his own on an engine. It’s that simple.

But the fact of the matter is the only miserly motors are very small four-strokes at trolling speeds.

For most people, you have to put on 300 hours/year for 5 years to recoup the savings needed from buying a big 4-stroke over a 2-stroke. Some 4-strokes use more fuel than similar 2-strokes!

I guess I don’t let fuel usage dictate much to me in buying a new boat. But, in James case where he guides or other people who have tillers that run all day it can be a big deal. Look it up, almost all motors get somewhere between 2-5 mph at WOT. If you back it down, it goes up in a hurry. I myself run about 4-4600 RPM’s unless I’m in a tournament or am making a huge run. It’s not even for fuel, I just like running a boat in what feels like a “sweet” spot of the power band.

For most people, it’s MAYBE 2-500 hundred dollars a year in gas no matter whether a they have a 50 hp or 200 hp. I put on 60 hours on my main engine last year, but I’ll bet I had 150+ on my kicker. Most main engines never see 50 hours of use in a year, most people are SHOCKED at how few hours they have on an engine if it can tell them.

I know we have a lot of hardcore anglers here who would disagree with me, but I’m speaking more about the “general” boat public that doesn’t go as much as they think they do.

Bottomline, get the best boat and engine that you feel comfortable with from a dealer you KNOW will stand behind the product. If fuel is important to you take that into consideration when you purchase, or even more importantly, drop ‘er back just a bit off full hammer.

I always ask myself if I was strictly a recreational angler what I would drive. I always come back to a 18′ boat with a 150 Opti or the like with a kicker. I can fish any water, put it in any garage, and have the safety of two engines which I prefer – plus I’m a troller. Some guys would want a 75 four-stroke tiller, others a 175 tiller, others a 25 carb 2-stroke on a open 14. NO ONE knows but the buyer, a good dealer will ask you a ton of questions to help you get the boat that fits you best. If you can then ride in it before you buy, the worse weather the day you go the better!

I love all boats, I’m just glad we have all these choices.

I can say one thing though. Running 65 mph is ANY boat is pretty @%!%!#% exciting, even on flat water! Maybe too exciting for me depending on the boat and the driver.

T

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I think I was in your boat for one of those rides when we got chased off the pond by that nasty thunder storm that was one heck of a ride!!!

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Ditto Steve. Never knew it go light out so early in the morning.

Todd

I couldn’t agree more about making purchase descision based on fuel economy figures from one outboard to the next. It would take the average weekender a heck of a long time to burn through enough fuel to end up with enough of a savings to choose one motor over another.

For me those 4000 RPM “strolls” are all about conserving fuel on guided trips. Customers DO NOT usually appreciate high speed runs and I can make a boat payment or two with the fuel I save over 25 trips if I run at a comfortable cruising speed versus wide open all the time.

All the modern outboards get some pretty impressive mileage at 3500 – 4200 RPM.

I also agree with Todd and James on this, I have a 16 1/2 foot Lund, max HP for my boat is a 90HP currently I have a 40HP Evinrude on the back. Eventually I would like to upgrade to a 90HP, if money was not an issue I would be tempted to go with a 90HP E-Tec but with an $8000 price tag I can not justify it. I am keeping an eye out for a used 90HP 2 stroke Yamaha, I missed a heck of a deal on one not to long ago a 2003 with 30 hours on it for $3700.

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Todd

I couldn’t agree more about making purchase descision based on fuel economy figures from one outboard to the next. It would take the average weekender a heck of a long time to burn through enough fuel to end up with enough of a savings to choose one motor over another.

For me those 4000 RPM “strolls” are all about conserving fuel on guided trips. Customers DO NOT usually appreciate high speed runs and I can make a boat payment or two with the fuel I save over 25 trips if I run at a comfortable cruising speed versus wide open all the time.

All the modern outboards get some pretty impressive mileage at 3500 – 4200 RPM.

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Ditto here too….My 2 stroke carb Yammie that is 10 years old is bullet proof and I would like to save a tree and get a new 4 stroke, but I did the math and it would take 20 years of gas savings to justify. I use my boat to fish and ski every weekend in the summer and fishing every weekend on Leech and Mille Lacs in the fall.

I’ll keep my big 2 stroke and run my kicker when I can.

[quoteTuck, I’m guessing you are asking how reliable the Mercury’s are. Well at the time of the test here is what was said about Warranties.

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Merc and Evinrude both are three-star rated. In addition, Merc and Evinrude both offer three-year warranties, where Yamaha offers two.

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I can’t say how reliable the 225xs is Tuck, I just got mine and have put minimal hours on it.
I didn’t give an opinion or nothing.

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I find it kind of amusing how we have a few staffers here that have replaced numerous power heads on the Black Beauties, yet they have chosen to be silent. I will respect their anonimity, and not call them on the carpet here. But many of you know who they are, and may know of a bunch more people as well as I do. I do not see the same thing happening with any other color motor out there. That is an observation. Mine, and anyone else who cares to admit it. Maybe it is just because there are more Mercs out there? I don’t know. What happens when you try to sell those motors after they come off warranty? I am just curious…but it is a question that a consumer should be asking. A consumer can also find out through dealer records if anything has been done through warranty work. Every motor manufacturer has their following of people. Rob, you obviously bleed black, with Todd in close second. There was a time when going faster than the next guy meant something to me. I had some of those boats. I am now fighting through back pain caused my many years of beating myself silly by going faster than I really should have been during tournaments. Not to mention damage I did to boats because I was going faster than I should have for the conditions. As James said, customers do not appreciate the pounding that can be afflicted running from spot to spot. Many of these people are not to keen about being on the water in the first place. Scaring the bejesus out of them pretty much assures me I will not be spending my tip money at McDonalds.
So now I am into reliability, smooth running, quiet motors that need little if any maintenance. There are many motors out there that fit the bill. Yes, some are black. Now a days, I am happy to hit 50 MPH on a smooth day. There are tournament days when 20 MPH sends my remaining kidney in search of a flak jacket. One or two MPH at top end makes no difference to me regardless of color is what I am saying I guess. What started the debate here was that it appeared that this “Shoot out” was presented as a case to prove “Black” is better than all comers based only on speed.
If that is your kick, then hey! You win!

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I find it kind of amusing how we have a few staffers here that have replaced numerous power heads on the Black Beauties, yet they have chosen to be silent.

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Mercury did have a problem in the late 90’s to about 2003 with blowing their big power heads, this is no secret. They found the issue and fixed it. As I said earlier Tuck, technology has changed and have you checked it out lately???

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One or two MPH at top end makes no difference to me regardless of color is what I am saying I guess. What started the debate here was that it appeared that this “Shoot out” was presented as a case to prove “Black” is better than all comers based only on speed.

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Well, the “shootout” you reference “if you actually read it”, talks about MANY different aspects of the engines and yes speed was one of them. If you actually read it, they also said the fastest one was also the “stingiest” one when it came to fuel. They also talked about and compared; warranties, cost, fuel economy, acceleration, feel, and another big one for me is how they handled at all speeds, etc. Are these not the things the average consumer wants to know about?????

You must also remember this “shoot out” was tested on a bass boat. For us Walleye guys it is not about going mach 5 with our hair on fire because of the conditions we endure on our lakes day in day out, like you discussed. However, it is a different story for the bass tournament world.

I did not say and still haven’t said which motor was better. Alls I said was, “I thought this was an interesting article”! I did say this was a Ford/Chevy debate. In turn, I know what motor fits my needs and is best fitted for me! To each their own, I didn’t bash or say anything bad about E-TEC or Yammy, just simply posted an article!!

Tuck,

This all started for me here when I read the G3 post(s). I’ll admit it rubbed me the wrong way for whatever reasons. I think that like you, I’m just a passionate guy and believe in the people I work with.

It’s this way every year during the boat show season. Owners, reps, pro staffers, and dealers all get in a tither. We hear all the bull at the shows, read it here on the Net, etc. Some people love to send into their sponsor how they “are promoting on the Internet messageboards”. Some companies care, some don’t. Sometimes I darn near fall over laughing hearing the stuff at breakfast before a show or afterwards in the lounge.

I’ve always been the type of guy to tout my stuff, not look to tear something else down. That was how I felt about Irwin’s letter – he didn’t say much for himself, just tearing down Brunswick. That’s OLD news.

Please read this to the end. I’m not trying to make anyone mad.

So you are saying HPDI’s don’t blow up Tuck? I’m curious about that one. I was in one tourney where 3 went down. Hats off to Yamaha for taking care of all three guys. One was a good friend of mine. I’ve NEVER said anything bad about Yamaha before today, and I don’t think what I just said was that bad. It’s BAD to pick on someone else’s product. We SHOULD tout our own.

Yes, Opti’s have blown up too. I had my first problem with a Merc last year myself, a bolt backed out of my blower in a tourney. First time I’d been let down on the water ever by a Merc. But to Merc’s credit they recognized they had Opti issues at one point in the past every customer was taken care of, many past warranty even. I’d also point out that many of the DFI’s of whoevers brand that “blew up” were NOT properly broken in or driven. Most DFI’s should be warmed up before hammered too by the way. Most of them that pop do so because guys float around, then start the motor for 30 seconds and hammer the motor, 300 yds out it’s toast. NOT a good driving style for any engine. Every DFI owner should have a water temp gauge. I know for Opti’s I don’t hammer them until they are up around 123 degrees or so.

EVERY ENGINE made has blown up, went down, etc. Some of them are out of business now, Chrysler/Force ring a bell. YET I STILL see those outboards every year with some happy guy running one.

Let’s see…

Which engine melted hubs?

Which DFI Engine uses/used roughly twice as much oil as anyone else’s?

Which DFI sold to dealers for way less but the dealers didn’t pass on all the savings?

Which Four-stroke has problems at about 300 hours with the valve train?

Which engine made in the late 90’s roughly was so bad almost no dealer will trade for it or buyer buy it?

MY ENTIRE POINT with this thread is that you can type whatever engine you want in Google followed by “problem” and it’s enough to never make you want to buy an engine again. It also works with about every pickup.

95-99% of consumers are happy with anything built after about 2000 depending on which manufacturers propaganda, I mean satisfaction analysis you read. In that 4-5% it’s mainly DFI problems brought about by trying to get compliant with new regs as fast as possible.

At this point, I can’t honestly name a 2006/07 Engine I WOULD NOT be happy to hang on my boat.

My only goal as a staffer here is to give factual information and hopefully some thought-provoking, but accurate statements.

I’ll also say this. PLEASE buy from someone you believe in as a dealer and that you have firsthand knowledge provides excellent service AFTER the sale! That’s the most important part of whatever any In-Depth Angler buys in my opinion.

I see dealers come and go. I know you can buy some of the stuff I represent from a lot of different sources. Knowing a person, shaking their hand, being treated fairly for the long haul is way more important down the road after the big check clears.

I’ve seen statistics that say the average person will go to 1.7 dealerships to buy a car but anywhere from 6-12 to buy a boat. Think of that! We are PASSIONATE about our boats, plus there isn’t usually great sources of information except for word of mouth.

I wish all of you the best with whatever you buy. Please know I sincerely mean that.

Tuck and Todd are going to need their own forum… lol

Both you guys are passionate about the motors doing the pushing behind your boats. I think we can all respect that.

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Tuck and Todd are going to need their own forum… lol

Both you guys are passionate about the motors doing the pushing behind your boats. I think we can all respect that.

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I hope they dont ride snowmobiles and if they do I hope they are the same brand if not

Now there is a sport that brings out the worst

LOL! Funny! But Todd actually made my point for me. I am not motor bashing, but I see these posts thrown out there to be “In your face” with bravado and testosterone that it makes me sick. If you look at the articles I did on DFI and 4 strokes, it was an unbiased truthful article comparing differences between the two. As I have said NUMEROUS times, buy what you like! If you want to know what I like, ask me. You will get an opinion. When I ran the ETEC I told every single one of you that I would print the good and bad experiences with that motor, and I did.
Again, buy what you like. This is no different than Ford Vs, Chevy to me.

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If you look at the articles I did on DFI and 4 strokes

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Huh? Where were these?

Like you can read anyway!!

Sorry just trying to add some humor to such an emotional filled post.

Yamaha rules!!!!!!!!

If they ride sno-mobiles I doubt they would be comparing outboards. They would be too busy repairing their sno-mobiles; those things are really tough to maintain.

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If you look at the articles I did on DFI and 4 strokes

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Huh? Where were these?

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James, did they make it onto the new server? I did them in 2005.

Like I said before Lip,
I lost all respect for you when you told me you were a Merc man.

I’ll have to meet you sometime to tell you about my days in Fond du Lac…

I base my decision on overall performance and reliability.

I fished with a friend on the Lowrance pro team tour Devils Lake, we lost 3 days pre fishing to his Mercury opti, We where on the phone with Merc, and Frankies, and the local repair shop none could diagnose the problem, Then we ended up spearing a wave and filling that Ranger 620 with about 12″ of water. Well on to the Wave Wacker.

We had the boat into Frankies for about a week before pre fishing for the Wacker. When he got the boat back they said they had the problem fixed, we fished hard with poor motor performance, and even broke the motor mount on the merc bigfoot kicker what a pain that was, back to Frankies, to get that fixed and look at the opti.

Day two of the Wacker with a good day one weight, we blow the damn motor on our way to take off at 6:30 am. Season over.

Merc ended replacing a $7,000.00 head. But we lost over 2 grand in tourney fees and hotel costs.

AND DID NOT OTHER PROS BLOW UP THER OPTIS???

I will fish Yammy all the way.

Thanks for my venting

eyedoctor2

Eyedoctor, I see your point, but this happens to all and I stress ALL motors, even your beloved Yamaha. Only this was 4 days before the wacker. LAST YEAR the big brand new Yammy 4-stroke 250 blew up right at take off of the MTT by Cal and I. Hey stuff happens, it doesn’t mean Yammy has a bad motor. No motor manufacturer like Tuck pointed out is bullet proof, even Mercury . They all are mechanical and electrical items, sooner or later they will have problems. ALL MANUFACTURERS have had and still will have issues PERIOD.

Yes you are right Rob, I guess I am still upset that we had good fishing in both locations Devils Lake and Mille Lacs and the dang motor went to hell.
Having trouble getting past that,

Have a great week

In all fairness I know a member here who has an almost identical story about his HPDI at Bays De Noc last year.

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In all fairness I know a member here who has an almost identical story about his HPDI at Bays De Noc last year.

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That cost that person some money too (missed out on a hot bite to cash a check if I recall correctly!)

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ALL MANUFACTURERS have had and still will have issues PERIOD.

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This is the best response to any and all future threads about outboard comparisons.

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In all fairness I know a member here who has an almost identical story about his HPDI at Bays De Noc last year.

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That cost that person some money too (missed out on a hot bite to cash a check if I recall correctly!)

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It is hard to say how he would have fared since he wrecked the engine early in his prefishing but I would say it was a fair bet that he would have been a contender to make the final day.