2 Stroke vs. 4 Strokes and Motor Showdowns.

A bass guy!!!!!!

Well then I am offended.

Isnt a bass guy going only 2 speeds?

Idle and wide open?

I’m going to save this thread!

Quote:

---

Skin Dog, I do agree with Chirs that gas consumption is a factor in my book! The difference could be antoher St. Croix Legend Toruney rod or 3 every year.

---

Nope 3 speeds! Idle, WOT and the wifes in the boat. Number 3 only involves the trolling motor!

I was waiting for someone to comment that it’s not just gas your burning in those 2 bangers.

Here we go again. I have not heard anyone bragging about how great these Verado’s have been as opposed to any other “Run of the mill” 4 stroke out there. Is the Supercharger actually gaining you some kind of tangible performance advancements over a standard 4 stroke? Are you getting 55 MPH as opposed to 53 with a typical 4 stroke? Highly doubtful. Not to mention if you run all day log with your bowmount, or non-charging kicker with your electronics on, and your Verado does not start. Or blow one fuse and try to figure out which one of the 20 it is! During a tournament! And then get a ride back to the weigh in because your partner is motoring across Lake Pepin with his kicker to the landing in Lake City. (It happened to me!) These things take a he!! of a lot of juice just to run. Wear that battery down, and you are out of luck! (That comes from actual Verado owners, not hyperbole from the manufacturers.)
I cannot see where trailering all that extra weight on your transom will get ya. As far as the XS (And this is an observation in person.)I saw a Polar Kraft (Bill Ortiz) with a 225 ETEC catch and pass a 620 Ranger with a 225 XS on Pepin. And it was not even close. I know that Ranger guy was wondering what had just happened.
Spout off all you want about Merc. Have your fun. I have had them. Not impressed one bit with the noise, fuel economy or performance over Evinrudes and now this Yamaha. Of all the motors I have been in, the Evinrudes have out run every comparable Merc I have seen.
My $.02.

Chris, The XS rocks. I had an Evinrude before. I am not loyal to any brand when it comes to anything. I buy what I believe is best at that moment.
As far as you seeing a Ranger getting passed by whatever with whatever on the back of whatever….forget it. I can give you a heck of a list of Evinrudes E-tecs I have passed in the short time I’ve had this Pro XS. (225) When it comes to top speed, its all the boat. The 225 XS, 225 HPDI, and the 225 E-tec are so equally matched it comes down to the tackle in your copmpartments when comparing speed on the same boat, and the driver. Pulling that card won’t work. Unless you know the set ups don’t tell those stories. Maybe the guy in the Ranger was set up from being out on Erie.
Thge bottom line is like I said before. The three big dogs, Merc., yamaha, and Evinrude, are so close its not even worth debating when comparing the DFI’s. I believe the Merc. is a touch stronger from experience and real life comparisons with the exact same Champion bass boats but I won’t go there.
IMO, the new DFI 2 strokes are superior to the 4 strokes in every category except noise. (which I like) Someone said something about oil consumption on the 2 strokes. It is un real how little fuel and oil my XS uses. And if you are worried about 2 extra gallons of oil over a period of 100 hours/or a season then you ought not have a big rig. Thats my .02.

Tuck you are missing the main part of the post. The main and original question I had was 4 storkes in General comapred to the 2 stroke DFI’s ( HDPI vs. Yammy 4 stroke, Etec, vs well there is nothing. Verado vs. Optimax. My question is what is the reasoning of buying a 4 stroke over a 2 stroke. Like I said in a earlier post I dont care what ever brand you want just what are the positives of a 4 stroke compared to the DFI 2’s??????

Are you done ranting yet??? Beacuse we all have bad experiences with all brands name it Mercury, Yammy, Evinrude, Johnson,etc. They all have gone through their technology growing pains. With out competititon we would still be back in the ice age. I could go ranting on how I have towed a Yammy in and have saw 2 others get towed in this year, but what I wanted to compare here, forget brands I’m talking straight up 2 Stroke DFI’s vs. 4 strokes. Hang on……. I need to climb down off the podium now.

Lip, how does the warranties compare? To me that would be a big consideration. My buddy just dropped $900 on his 2001 Optimax.

Derek, I’m not sure I was looking at a 2005 620 DVS with a 225 Optimax and that had Warranty until 2010 (5 years) so I’m not sure how they compare. In the report it did say the 250XS was 2 years compared to the 3 years for the 250 HP 4 bangers.

Eron – Great point. That was the reason for the above test. Try to put things on a level field by running all motors on the same boat with same/simialr set ups. I’m not sure what a Polar Kraft Weighs, but if I had to bet I would say that Ranger 620 weighs more???? Not positive but a good guess. Again, we could argue E-TEC over HDPI, over Opti till were Blue in the Face.

Try this again. My question is: Is there any info on the advatages of a 4 stroke over the DFI 2 stroke, in what ever brand you want to compare??????????

Lip

I have not seen any therefore I will stay with a 2 stroke. There is nothing wrong with a 4 stroke a 2 stroke fits my needs. As they say “Different strokes for Different folks.” Did I just type that?

Eric, thanks for the input on the Merc. I may be in the market this fall/Spring. I will be sure to have it on my list.

Chris

Quote:

---

With out competititon we would still be back in the ice age.

---

Mercury has one heck of a race shop, that’s why the XS is such a big winner in these articles. But you have to look at it that many aren’t going to have these very expensive “lab-worked” props Merc is using. Competition with the E-TEC brought the Opti/XS back from “extinction”. Mercury at one time was thinking about going all 4-stroke with the Verado until they realized there are still many that want the 2-stroke DFI’s…A+ for Mercury.

The prices along with other things in this article are a little…alot far fetched as I’ve seen dealer prices for Mercury, Yamaha, and Evinrude. That being said Verado is still the most expensive even before you add the steering system.

You guys, the 250 xs does come out of the “race shop” but it is a production motor. Its not some secret race moter like the X or anything. The 250 xs is not that big of a deal. The only reason it was a winner is because it was a 2 stroke. The could have ran a 225 e-tec or pro xs or hpdi and any of those, even being 225’s would have out performed those 4 strokes. The only real special “race” part is the lower unit. The 250 xs uses a sportmaster gearcase in place of the tourqemaster. Smaller nose cone, etc. And having that sportmaster gearcase on any heavy glass hull boat is no advantage, more likely it is a disadvantage. Lab worked props? I didn’t read that I guess. Maybe I missed it. It showed using a bravo I. Thats something we can all buy and try to put on whatever if you think thats the ticket.
The 225xs is a full production engine that doesn’t come out of their “race shop.” Mine came with a 5 year warranty. So don’t confuse the two.
Speed comes form hulls. I used to think it didn’t but it does.

Quote:

---

The 225xs is a full production engine that doesn’t come out of their “race shop.” Mine came with a 5 year warranty. So don’t confuse the two.
Speed comes form hulls. I used to think it didn’t but it does.

---

The 250XS is listed under their racing page only, while the 225XS is on their regular page. The 250XS has only a 2 year limited warranty, while the 225XS has a 3 year non-declining.

The test was done with a lab worked Bravo 1, not a standard Bravo 1…there is a difference.

It’s not Merc’s fault they make better props and better engines at lower prices for one test at one point in time. What the heck is the complaining about?

Loyalties and sponsorship – not facts, there are no facts in what’s better, it’s in the eyes of the beholder. Technical and performance facts can be reported and interpreted to your hearts content.

Say what you want, but BWB goes to the length off adding weights to lighter hulls to even the tests! So, they are somewhat above board at the very very least.

I confirmed with Dave last night. The Verado rigging was at least another $2k over the Opti in the 175 class. That being said, it makes me question why B&W have the same price? Maybe the excluded rigging costs on all motors??

My 225 pro xs has a 5 year warranty. Trust me. 3 is standard and they throw on an extra two during promotions and boat shows.

As far as the 250 xs goes, I know what you are saying, but it is the exact same as the 225 xs except the lower unit and of course it is programed for 250 hp. And yes I know it probably puts out 267hp. Any newer dfi engine will most likely be max out at their 10% over maximum.

So you think that if they didn’t have a “lab worked” prop and a engine out of the “race” shop, it wouldn’t have whipped up on the 4 stroked sleds. Like I said, and you should know this too(your name is e-tec_angler), any 225 standard, (not race shop) would have had their way with those 4 strokes too.

In fact its almost funny that they even compared a two stroke to a 4 stroke. Everyone should know what the results should be. They maybe wanted to show that the two strokes are as efficient as the 4’s???

Exactly E-Ron. Most people ASSUME because it is a 4 stroke it is more efficient and better all around. I have yet to find a way besides noise how 4 storkesi are better and still waiting.

Also I beleive I have heard a stat on the 225 XS actaully puts out 247 HP’s.

You Merc guys can keep stroking each other ego’s while your power heads are being rebuilt at an alarming pace. I’ll take my old reliable Yammy all day long.

Have great weekend!!!

OK here’s what I see! ALL MOTORS SUCK! MERC, Johnson, Evin.,Yammy, Hell lets add Honda and suzuki to the mix.

I’m going to go find an old force motor and strap that baby on. That way we can all get along because you will all be making fum of me! (Not that Rip has any problem with that already. )

Smile boys it’s a f$#k!ng Motor.

Hall monitor

Please edit the previous message as needed.

Ya know……..Chris is right………….

It is something I never figured out………

Why someone claims there boat, motor, 4-wheeler, truck, car, or whatever is going to pee on everyone elses……..to the point you have to put a sticker on your truck saying so……..I’m sure I just insulted a bunch of people…….

The only rush/pride I get to the point of bragging, is stuff I build on my own. I don’t care what boat, motor, truck I’m running as long as it works…….and works the way it should………..

you want something to brag about………take that silly motor on the back of your boat and crank up the horse power/torque to about 50% of what the factory allows, run a 30″ prop and tear up the river at 100mph………..THEN you got something to brag about………

Quote:

---

You Merc guys can keep stroking each other ego’s while your power heads are being rebuilt at an alarming pace.

---

Kooty are you a Packer Fan too? Because you sure like living in the past. Were talking about todays motor, not yesterdays. Yes I know Kooty, your team won back to back Superbowls.

Have a good weekend. Hows Momma and the newbie doing? When you going to be able to get out fishing? What are you doing next weekend?

Quote:

---

Ya know……..Chris is right………….

---

HOLLY CRAP! Twice in one thread. Thats more than the last 12 month with my wife!

Kooty,

Powerheads being rebuilt….

Now THAT IS OVER THE LINE if you are implying this is a common issue for Merc Opti’s

Yes, Merc had big block Opti issues in 2001. And you know what, they COVERED THEM ALL, EVEN the ones WELL past warranty. I can’t remember the last time I saw or heard of a Opti down period around here. My dealer doesn’t sell millions of them, but he’s had to have one Opti rebuilt ever the last I knew (by the way, they thought it wasn’t broken in right, and was never warmed up before being hammered all the time on a bass boat)

Yamaha HPDI’s, I CAN remember a lot of them being down, in fact 2 for sure were down out of 100 boats at the Hagen’s in SD a year or two ago costing guys a chance to even fish. You can say THAT about EVERY motor (I’m not trying to pick on Yamaha, please see it the other way – they ALL fail sometime, somewhere)

But, Yamaha sold the HPDI’s to dealers for a lot less than Opti’s and then put them out the door at $500 less – yes, omg, they made more on HPDI’s.

What do Yammie and Merc BOTH have in common – they take care of a problem, take care of their customers, take care to “re-engineer” if needed and keep improving the products.

State real stats, don’t throw out there that guys are rebuilding their powerheads. That’s the kind of stuff that drives me insane, especially as someone who sells his boat ever year or two to hear that stuff perpetuated.

If you want to be mad, be mad at the EPA, they made the tech curve to steep and costly.

I’ve ran FOUR bigOpti’s since 2000 and have had ZERO PROBLEMS EVER EVER EVER (God I pray I don’t jinx myself though!)

JD Power always was tossed around for other guys, now that Merc won it – it doesn’t mean anything? Ya right (By the way, what is JDP’s criteria, what does their research mean, how far are the gaps, what is the statistical analysis, what is the confidence interval of that analysis). I’ve asked them and they won’t say. So to me, it is not SCIENTIFIC if JDP says boo for anyone.

It’s about as good as reading the newspaper award for who has the “best hamburger in City Y”

What the heck does that mean? More people voted, it was higher quality burger, seasoned better, friendlier people – who knows. It isn’t scientific, it’s a mismash of opinion boiled down to someone’s stamp of approval they SELL.

And by the way, virtually all Tracker/Nitro/ProCraft guys are Mercury sponsored, I haven’t sent in my papers the last few years – my fault. But I still LOVE those motors and can’t say that anyone really makes a bad one, but… if you go to saying bad things about Black engines, it does get my dander up.

Here’s my thought on engines, I’d be pretty proud to run any of them. But I can honestly say that if Tracker picks a motor, I’m glad it’s Merc. More dealers, USA company, have been on my boats since 1995 and have never let me down. I’m sure others feel that way about their blues, grays, whites, and so on. I hope we keep having some good choices.

I can never figure out the bashing of products, it makes no sense.

peace

Todd

Quote:

---

but… if you go to saying bad things about Black engines, it does get my dander up.

---

While this is the exact reaction I was looking for, it wasn’t aimed at you directly. You know, the other Merc lovin’ fool here.

Rob, not doing anything this weekend but sleeping and working. Possibly hit Tonka or Indy early Sunday for some ski action. Gonna try to make the GTG for a few hours next Sat, but no confirmed approval from the war department yet. Unfortunately I told a crazy Iowan if I make it down he could fish with me. What is wrong with me??

Kooty
ya gotta watch those rash generalizations

Quote:

---

a crazy Iowan

---

dave

I run medical clinics, is it alright to say we see Iowans with rashes?

Quote:

---

Unfortunately I told a crazy Iowan if I make it down he could fish with me. What is wrong with me??

---

OK, OK! You guys were doing fine until Kooty had to come in and ruin it for everyone. Imagine that! Kooty, you just make sure you’ve got new line on my reels and ice on my beer buddy. Leave the conversating to the adults!

Todd, if you knew Kooty, you’d know he’s just trying to stir the pot. He’s an internet troll in disguise. We just keep him around for the free beer.

Alright, ya’all go back to your friendly discussion now. Keep the gloves high. As long as i don’t see any “your mamma” jokes we should be okay.

Hey Lip, Have I told you how much I appreciate you starting this debate. Thanks buddy!

James, I still need that “much love” and “peace out” Graemlin…

Todd

dave

Nice one Kooty. Quit living in the past. I have all kinds of dirt on the present “yammies” but I will not stoop to that. Same with the Evinrudes. I’m sure the mercs have problems too. They go in cycles.

Easy on the Packers…you purple fans are just upset that the only queen with a ring had to steal it.

Any motor you buy is only as good as the service you can get when it has a problem. They all have problems. Problems usually cost us all money. I choose to give my money to Evenrude(Brp).

I doubt anyone wants to compare their motor to an e-tech. Its simple physics folks. wanna know why a guy who is 6’1 and weighs 120 lbs can run faster than I can? Its because I weigh 130 lbs more than he does, not because his legs have more power than mine.