Enter at your own risk

I haven’t been much of an ice fisherman for the last 15 years or so.

When a person uses a access or road that a resort is charging for doesn’t the resort have a posted release from liability? I have one for my guide clients. How well it will stand up in court I hope I don’t have to ever test.

Personally, I’ll go on record as saying the resorts have the responsibility to talk about ice and early ice even more so when they collect their money. When I say “talk about” I’m saying going over bad areas and staying in marked areas. After that, we have to take responsibility for our actions. What resort wants to be splashed all over the news because someone they let on the ice dies?

As far as being the “industry’s” fault. I understand what a few of you are getting at, but nope. Can’t blame it. Who doesn’t want to be ready for ice, open water or even a hunting season?

You know, if this would of happened in Jan/Feb it wouldn’t be any big deal EVEN though there are two less souls on earth.

I rely on the “industry” to give me their assessment of the risks, then I make my own assessment. My assessment may be to stay away from areas deemed “safe” by a resort, but It’ll never ignore areas deemed dangerous.

Unless you’re spending as much time on the ice as the resorts, there’s no way you should think you can outsmart them about the ice conditions. Until a savvy bitcoin investor decides to bankroll my hobbies, I need to work during the week and I’ll rely on the industry to tell me when the ice is safe.

I wouldn’t blame them the whole industry.

It’s my life, I’ll take all the precautions necessary to keep myself safe in all situations. Unfortunately we can’t always base it on personal experience and we need to rely on others.

Resorts plow roads and place bridges over cracks in the ice. I have no way to tell if that bridge was welded properly. If it fails and I go through the ice, you cannot relieve all liability from the person who built the bridge or the one who put it there.

A bar is a whole different animal. Bars do have some level of liability for their patrons they serve alcohol to and if they drive away over the legal limit. It’s called a dram shop law.

I’ll never know exactly what happened to those two but I have confidence the courts will decide appropriately.

“Enter at your own risk” doesn’t get much plainer than that. A resort, the DNR, the person just coming off the ice, none of those folks can tell you the ice is “safe”. They can’t even tell you how thick the ice is “on the lake” only how thick is was in the exact spots they checked/drilled at the time they drilled those spots. Anything more is speculation.

As has been mentioned, we as adults make the same decision to go out onto the lake in both winter AND summertime conditions. Personally I am willing to make that decision and take the risk and consequences that go along with that decision.
Sky divers and bungee jumpers do too, but that is one risk I am unwilling to take.
Every time I put on my SCUBA gear and go 100 feet below the surface there is always the chance I may not make it back the the surface alive, again I make the decision the dive and assume the risk.

There’s a sign at the Prescott boat ramp that says “launch at your own risk”

Lol …

Duh!!

It should continue to say “you’ll Dodge ice bergs, logs, and navigate hazards in the daylight or darkness; nobody around to save you… Have fun!!”

For some reason I prefer the river that way
And I’m more comfortable there than 494!

“No Ice Is Safe”
I start with that, then make my decision.

I’m not on FB but are there many people out there really blaming the resorts? People falling through the ice ain’t all that new around here.

Saw the news broadcast the night it aired, I won’t judge the families reactions but it seems an incredibly isolated train of thought from people who are hurting.

Unfortunately we can’t always base it on personal experience and we need to rely on others.

That’s a very good point Mr. Gill.

Case in point. Top end of Lake Pepin. Every year people go through fishing there with good ice one day and bad ice the next.

I won’t fish Pepin without someone that I know has experience out there and >>because of the reports on IDO<< will never get close to the head of the lake. I’m relying on others.

Unfortunately I think many members of IDO (myself included) take for granted that everyone has read the reports here and in other media. They call it common sense, but if you don’t know…how do you know?

Sighhhh.

Roger on Reds does have maps and explains where the bad ice is. If you leaving at night or riding around you really need a GPS with tracks. The ice blends so dang well with open water.

Lets back up the bus here. Did they fall through ice? Or did they drive into open water? Big difference in how you get yourself out of those situations.

-J.

Brian Klawitter wrote:

You know, if this would of happened in Jan/Feb it wouldn’t be any big deal EVEN though there are two less souls on earth.

I would disagree with this statement Brian. Even if this happened in Jan/Feb it would be a big deal considering the questions revolving around the resorts responsibility here. If we go back to last February when most all the Mille Lacs resorts had to shut down because of deteriorating ice conditions, at what would have been a very busy weekend. For some of us, this also cancelled our IDO outing. And then if one of the few that stayed open had something terrible happen involving anyone going out of their operation, there would be the same uproar.
The sad irony is that there were many (not on this forum) complaining about the resorts shutting down their accesses when they were doing so for safety reasons.

nhamm wrote:

I’m not on FB but are there many people out there really blaming the resorts? People falling through the ice ain’t all that new around here.

There are. It’s a tsunami on FB since Monday.

I think there could be blame on both sides of this Red Lake incident. Personally, I certainly get that that the individual needs to use common sense and be ultimately responsible. However I do need to rely on the resorts expertise and diligence in determining ice conditions and have to trust that I can go out on their ice roads without stopping and checking ice thickness myself on the way out.

I don’t understand how anyone can blame the resorts, pro fisherman, manufacturers, etc. for this tragedy. Can you blame the state or life preserver companies because someone did not wear their preserver and drown in the summertime? Blame the state because they didn’t close the landing during high winds? A person has to take responsibility of their own actions. Everyone that ice fishes knows first ice and last ice is always dangerous and precautions (life preserver/float suit) are in order. and depending on the body of water it can have bad spots all year. Remember those manufactures also make spud bars for checking the ice.
Now if a guide/resort owner was leading them out, there could be a different argument made about who is responsible. This is just my opinion.

My heart breaks when I think of what the families are going through because I’ve experienced losing a daughter suddenly myself. It’s indescribably horrifying.
It’s human nature to want to direct blame when accidents happen to loved ones, especially after experiencing a loss such as this, but the reality is that accidents do happen, no matter how much we’d wish they didn’t.

Feel terrible for the people and their famalies. Don’t have all the info but I wouldn’t really ever think you could hold the resort reliable.

my opinion would be if you fall through using their road to a fishhouse of theres could be some blame. if you use just their access they can’t control what you do or what happens out there.

I think we all agree personal responsibility is first and foremost.

However, I have to question the resort for encouraging people to come up with 4 wheelers since 11/16, when there were multiple cracks straight out from the resort. As well as multiple open water spots still open nearby. And the resorts hand drawn maps leave a lot up for interpretation. I really don’t know if that means they bear some legal culpability or not though.

As for the industry, I can’t blame them for this specific incident. However, in this social media era, it sometimes is a race to the bottom. I have seen “Pro-Staff” posting stuff for weeks, some even joking about how sketchy the ice is, just so they can be first and get the most likes/comments. But that is what you get when the companies pay them in discounts and have little to no obligation to the people that represent them.

The most unfortunate thing is two people lost their lives.

The next most unfortunate thing would be misinformation about the incident condemning someone undeservingly.

I say that because I do not know all the facts and neither does anyone here.

If they served or overserved these two at their bar, there is clear liability here in my opinion.

biggill wrote:

If they served or overserved these two at their bar, there is clear liability here in my opinion.

Where did you get this information? I don’t see any news reports that have this in there.

Any resorts right now have waivers to sign? I can’t recall any but I’m pretty new to ice fishing.

nhamm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>biggill wrote:</div>
If they served or over-served these two at their bar, there is clear liability here in my opinion.

Where did you get this information? I don’t see any news reports that have this in there.

Any resorts right now have waivers to sign? I can’t recall any but I’m pretty new to ice fishing.

They were confirmed being at the bar and leaving around 11:00. We would have no business speculating now on whether or not they were over-served. Toxicology tests are pending.

Some resorts do have you sign a waiver when going out and staying in one of their rentals. Just going out of the access I think they just collect $10 and hopefully warn about areas to avoid.

nhamm wrote:

Where did you get this information? I don’t see any news reports that have this in there.

Don’t get me started on the “news”.

My info comes strictly from hearsay and my comment was strictly hypothetical. And my opinion was just that, an opinion.

biggill wrote:

I say that because I do not know all the facts and neither does anyone here.

Since when have facts ever mattered on this board?

philtickelson wrote:

Since when have facts ever mattered on this board?

Touché.

Tragic to be sure.

A Couple of things jump out at me in terms of liability.

1. in the bemidji pioneer story I read the sherriff told Rogers it would be safest to remain open because people are going out, PERIOD. Better to give them some intel on their way than to let them go out blind. That same logic could be applied to opening early in the first place.

2. Something like 1400 other anglers went out of Rogers that weekend. I’m guessing they all received the same intel and warnings about ice.

3. The ATV went in a mile off shore in an area marked by a skull and cross bones on Rogers’ maps.

I was fishing that weekend on Red , thought about a little rock pile that’s about 4 miles out. To shorten the post I used better judgement and stayed closer to the shore. The fish will still be there when we get safer ice.

Maybe I’m just silly but once you step foot on a public waterway frozen or not you are there on your own accord unless you are being directly taken somewhere by a hired hand.
All the info in the world does not make up for poor decisions or poor luck or maybe both.

Its terrible that two people lost there lives.We have all probably pushed our luck on the ice a time or two.Did any body force us to go?I personaly wont go out after dark until i’m reasonably sure it’s safe.We all know it’s never guaranteed safe anytime.They made the decision to head out on the ice,not the resort.I/we all make bad choices from time to time,unfortunatly they lost their lives for this choice.I am sorry for the familie,but all the blame shouldn’t fall on the resort.

Hey @walleyestudent. Where are you getting your info from. Just curious. I don’t trust the news.

Don’t say Facebook.

Where were the fish police? They could of closed the lake. Sue the dnr…

biggill wrote:

Hey @walleyestudent. Where are you getting your info from. Just curious. I don’t trust the news.

Don’t say Facebook.

Okay then, I won’t say Facebook.

Depending on the topic, a variety of sources. There are more ways to be connected than social media, although that can offer a lot of intel depending on how many “friends” you have. We can have this discussion outside of this thread.

If it’s the resorts fault, wouldn’t it be their fault if somebody runs in to an ice shack? They didn’t put up signs or a fence around it.
Why is it when something happens the blame is always put on someone else?
They had a map of that area KNOWN as bad ice with a skull and cross bones.
Why should it be the resorts duty to mark the ice? Some clown would take the cones or knock the sign over. Or ice would melt then everything would sink. Then people would whine that they littered!
Jeeeesh! Had warm weather with first ice.
I’m truly sorry for their loss, But it’s not the resorts fault because of Mother nature!

Got word from a friend who is on Facebook that the brother of the girl put a post out explaining some of what happened. Maybe someone can check this info for me.

Apparently their sleeper house was on the lake that night and they had to drive out to their fish house at night to sleep.

Again, someone on Facebook please confirm.

If this is true, does this then make the resort liable in your opinion?

Personally, I’m not going to judge the resort resort on this. The courts will.