Engine Shrinkage?

It was discussed a little bit in a previous thread, but seems to be increasing across all brands and models of vehicle. Engine shrinkage. As many of you know I’m big fan of the 5.7L Hemi, which is going away in 2025 models in favor of a turbo V6 3.0L. This smaller turbocharged engine has higher output at 420 hp and 469 ft lbs of torque (Hemi was 395/410). And just slightly better gas mileage at city/hwy/combined of 18/25/21 compared to 18/23/20 on the Hemi. Similarly the new Toyota 4Runners (and Tacoma’s I believe) have gone down to a turbocharged V4 2.4L with 278 hp compared to the 270-hp 4.0-liter V-6 that they ran previously. I’m far from a car guy, just know what I like and what makes sense. So what say you guys? Much ado about nothing, and just the new normal? Or are we regressing a little bit here?

I’m far from a car guy either.

My opinion is that I want something that covers the tasks I need it to and is reliable. I couldn’t care less what “size” the engine is, what it sounds like, what my neighbors have to say, so long as it hits those parameters. I use my trucks to plow, haul, tow, and run off road in fields fairly regularly.

I will say that today’s half ton and diesel trucks off the lot have a he** of a lot more torque than those of ~15 years ago off the lot. It will be interesting to see how the reliabity stacks up…but performance wise I really don’t see it regressing with regards to torque

Its regression IMO. Those smaller engines will have issues maybe not internally but definitely with turbos etc. Dodge is going to have the smallest turbo V6 in a half ton. Be careful with trusting those EPA MPG numbers because none of my buddies with ecoboost get anywhere near what the sticker said.

I think its mainly due to MPG requirements put on them. So now they are putting smaller turbos in them to meet the requirements. Im not a huge fan of small turbos personally.

I’m not a fan of turbos. I made that clear in several posts. However if a person keeps the oil change interval low and runs synthetic oil they stand a better chance of survival. The other thing they do is have oil and coolant running through them and that opens you up for leaks. The turbo runs on a bearing so they have a life expectancy. Me I will stick with a V8 with no turbos as long as I possibly can. It will be interesting to see if Toyota can figure out a way to make theirs reliable.

Add me to one of those who are a bit leery of the new trend in smaller engines. I think at some point we are most likely not going to have a choice but to get on board with it. The manufactures are going to take the decisions out of our hands at some point. I understand ( Partly anyway the science behinds all of it ) but I cant help but think those smaller higher revving engines engine’s are going to come into play at some point engine life. Many of the older larger engines were lasting 300,000 + miles with decent maintenance. Its going to take some time to see how many of some of these smaller engines are doing the same

Youbetcha wrote:

I think its mainly due to MPG requirements put on them. So now they are putting smaller turbos in them to meet the requirements. Im not a huge fan of small turbos personally.

Almost everything they do today is EPA driven. One would think it shouldn’t matter now since we have all these green hybrids and electric vehicles running around.

When I seen the title… I was going to suggest viagra…

But carry on.

Eco Diesels used to get better mileage, until they had to reprogram them to meet emissions and regulations. That’s why they had a repurchase program or a warranty extension option.

More to go wrong USUALLY equals more than WILL go wrong, especially in the long run. One thing to keep in mind, however, is that the movement to smaller V6/Eco diesel turbo motors is quite new here in the states, but most of these companies have been doing smaller turbo motors in other countries for decades.

In Australia, for example, I bet when I was there a couple months ago pretty much every SUV/truck (think Ranger/Colorado size) had a small turbo diesel vs. gas motors, and they were that way even back when I was there in 2016. These companies have been doing small turbo motors for longer that we realize, it’s just a matter of whether or not they’re willing to give us the quality that will match our beloved V8s.

Doesn’t it seem odd that most of us just hang our heads and assume these changes are inevitable (like punishment) and completely out of our control? The downsizing and rapid removal of ICE along with any programming efforts previously made available. Why is it this is completely out of our control??

CaptainMusky wrote:

Dodge is going to have the smallest turbo V6 in a half ton. Be careful with trusting those EPA MPG numbers because none of my buddies with ecoboost get anywhere near what the sticker said.

Ford has been using a 2.7 Turbo V6 in the F150 since 2015. I have one. I absolutely love it.

I have never driven a vehicle in MN that got EPA MPG numbers, especially the city MPG. Turbo4, Turbo V6, NA V6, V8, Diesel, etc.

Just an aside and not sure it matters much, the new Stellantis Hurricane 6 cylinder engine is not a V6, It is a straight 6.

I am leery of the Turbos as well.

Progress sure upsets some. Go back to 1910 and think what people would have said about the airplane and the Auto.

I bought a leftover Chevy Traverse with the 3.6 NA engine because the 2024 is coming with a turbo 4 banger. I get 30 mpg at 73 mph.
My 2019 Traverse averaged 24.6 over 59k miles. Good enough for me.

An old saying.
There is no replacement for displacesment.

RM wrote:

Ford has been using a 2.7 Turbo V6 in the F150 since 2015. I have one. I absolutely love it.

I have never driven a vehicle in MN that got EPA MPG numbers, especially the city MPG. Turbo4, Turbo V6, NA V6, V8, Diesel, etc.

I forgot about the little one. Just thought about the 3.5. I get at or higher mpg than the sticker with my 6.2 and I’m not easy on it either. I averaged 16.8 pulling my 19 foot boat with cruise set at 73 last June.

I have a f150 with the 3.5 eco boost. It is way more powerful than the 6.0 in my GMC. If I had to choose between the two I would take the 6.0 just for reliability and lower cost of maintenance. In 13k miles of owning the 3.5 I have had about $4500 worth of repairs done for leaking seals, turbo coolant line and new drive shaft. Extended warranty covered the repairs but I don’t know if I have spent that much on repairs for my 6.0 in 17yrs and 85k miles that I put on it.

I asked my mechanic if I stayed with ford what engine he would recommend and he said the 5.0. They don’t see very many of those and the ones they do see don’t have the internal issues the 3.5 has.

I work in the automotive industry and am a self proclaimed gearhead. I am also a diehard toyota guy. The new turbos do not scare me away one bit. My field is aftermarket hotrod serpentine drives, I get hundreds of calls a month from customers looking for LS drive systems to go with their turbos setups. Guys have been racing with turbos for years, and recently it is a hot trend in the harley and motorcycle industry to add turbos as well. Lets not forget that every item we buy is most likely trucked in with a turbo driven diesel engine and has been for 20+ years.

“There is no replacement for displacesment.” I’ll put a twin turbo LS up against a built NA LS any day of the week and bet a months wages on it.

The power addition specifically in the Toyotas for me is a welcome change, Better MPG, and more power is the exact reason I will be trading up on our 15 4runner that has the power of a slug, to the new offering, as well as trading up my 15 tundra in the coming months.

e01
I’m not talking racing. I’m talking Power and LONGEVITY. There is a reason engines in racing are torn down and refreshed after almost every race. The supercharger and turbos cause issues with long lasting durability. JMO and not looking for an argument.

MX1825 wrote:

e01
I’m not talking racing. I’m talking Power and LONGEVITY. There is a reason engines in racing are torn down and refreshed after almost every race. The supercharger and turbos cause issues with long lasting durability. JMO and not looking for an argument.

even on that note, theres a 69 Camaro in my parking lot that has 90K miles on a twin turbo crate LS, Has done power tours, proving grounds, drag runs, autocross, you name it. Thats more miles than my 15 tundra has, on a 4 year old motor. As long as people maintain their vehicle they shouldnt have issues. Just like an NA motor, do your oil changes and services and the engine will take care of you most of the time. Freak instances happen, but no reason to fear them or assume that all of them are bad if you hear a story about 1 or 2 that are bad.

More points of failure…

ekruger01 wrote:

As long as people maintain their vehicle they shouldnt have issues.

This^^

Like I mentioned IF people take care of them and IF the dealer keeps the interval reasonable then yes they stand a better chance of survival. You said you work in the industry so you know as well as I that most people don’t get service when they should, it happens when it fits there schedule. For the record I do agree with you, just see failures to often.

Ever hear of the Dubai lamp? Its just a light bulb made by American company Philips. Its LED. The King of Dubai bribed Philips to make a bulb that doesn’t burn out. They took the bulb offered in the US doubled the leds and ran them at half power to make a bulb that lasts hundreds of thousands of hours with no extra heat. You will not find that bulb available to US buyers. Car manufacturers will also not offer anything that the American consumer will not have to regularly replace. Welcome to the age of overrun disposable engines. Thats what we get for being a disposable society I guess.

So your saying there are vehicles on Dubai that last forever ?

Riverrat wrote:

They took the bulb offered in the US doubled the leds and ran them at half power to make a bulb that lasts hundreds of thousands of hours with no extra heat.

Sounds like someone should start the Forever Lightbulb Company. I’ve heard the same thing about tire companies too, so maybe just the Forever Company. Make things that last, there is a huge appliance market too.

e01
This is an extreme example but I personally knew the guy and truck. Poorly maintained, driven hard, no synthetic oil, NA Chevy 350 pickup. 647k miles with probably another 75k of idle time. No engine work other than intake gaskets.
Have never heard of a turbo engine lasting this long.

I found Dubai bulbs on amazon. The same?

https://www.amazon.ae/Philips-Dubai-3-60W-Capbase-Warranty/dp/B07PF14S1V/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=dubai+lamp&qid=1632036770&sr=8-1

It might be, they only had a certain number of years before they could be exported/resold. I know they just took a regular bulb and doubled the filaments so a 3 watt bulb should have six filaments and they only made them in 3 wattages 1, 2 and 3.If you go to the phillips website they say they are only in Dubai but other articles say they got them off Amazon and Walmart.com starting in Dec.

Turbos are fun to drive. Unless it is a diesel, I don’t want a turbo on anything I tow with. The mileage sucks when there is a load on it. I lost the turbos in my Ford EcoBoost. Quoted $4,500-$5,500 to fix the turbos. I went back to a V8 and am very happy I did. I get better mileage towing. I am not scared of turbos and would be happy to own another one in a non-tow vehicle. With a V8, 90% of the time I don’t go above 3K RPM. With a 6 or 4 it seems like I am always over 3K RPM. = More wear.

Sales guy tried to convince me that the 4-cylinder turbo was a just as good or better engine than the V8. I looked at him, shook my head, and asked for a different salesperson.

John Rasmussen wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>ekruger01 wrote:</div>
As long as people maintain their vehicle they shouldnt have issues.

This^^

Like I mentioned IF people take care of them and IF the dealer keeps the interval reasonable then yes they stand a better chance of survival. You said you work in the industry so you know as well as I that most people don’t get service when they should, it happens when it fits there schedule. For the record I do agree with you, just see failures to often.

Thats the good part about the side of the industry im in. These guys care more about their car than their children or spouse, so in my case, the customers actually do take care of them!