Embarrassing lesson in deer hunting

Figured I would share this experience for the benefit of our younger hunters.
We get ( and should) drilled into our heads to know your target… . With no exception, I preach the same message over and over again.

It was my last sit for the season and I had a 4:50pm plan. Shooting time ended at 4:51pm, so if I didn’t have my desired buck, I was taking a mature doe. At 4:40, I had a couple does come out and a couple yearling. I kept an eye on one larger doe as I patiently waited on a 12pnt to show.
At 4:50pm, a bigger doe walked out at an easy 387yrds. As it stood next to the original doe I had my eye on, easy to tell this one was older. Put my 400yrd mill on the heart and touched the trigger. The ole 270wsm punched her so hard she spun 360 degrees and rolled over. Dead doe!
So I thought. Walked out to the impact spot and immediately saw blood and hair. Looked over about 30 yards and the first thing I saw was testicles on my doe. Walked up and there was a tiny 6pnt rack between the ears.
Fortunately, I still had a buck tag so I was completely legal. However, just goes to show that if your a little rushed and don’t look as closely as you should, this could have been a bad situation.
Olivia and I blew an opportunity to fill my buck tag on opening weekend. I was hunting alone and could have easily been out with only a doe tag. Easy to play out the could of, should of,…scenarios. point is, we have a rule on our farm for shooting mature bucks wider than the ears, OR else you owe an additional work weekend. Ill be paying for this one.

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ClownColor wrote:

Good lesson. When punching out that far, you definitely have to do due diligence. There are no “quick shoots” out at 400+ yards. Sounds like your skill level is there, but for others thinking of taking this type of shot you should probably also have about 100+ rounds of practice for the animals sake too. You’ll see this out west and down south A LOT…wounded deer from people who think they can pull it off with little or no practice.

I agree on the practice. The lesson I meant to share was more specific to being rushed and not looking as closely as one should-regardless of distance. We alk know that we sit for hours and that one opportunity can happen in a split second. We all have a responsibility to know our target

Sounds like another good reason not to shoot at deer so far away. At least it not an old swayback doe. Young buck = good eating.

I guess we would need to define “so far away” I could see hair, defined muscle, and see that I had a perfectly clear bullet path. Just didn’t look close enough at it’s head. Dumb mistake on my part which I don’t deny. I see guys hitting limbs, branches and missing at under 50 yards- which also could be judged as too far away

Nice shot!

I got a few PMs and I respect that their opinions were private. In all, I guess 400yrds is like shooting at the moon. I didn’t know that I shouldn’t build a rifle for consistently that type of diatance

So like I responded with in PM and thought i’ld put here publicly as well, practice makes perfect. If you practice this shot 100s of times, it’s just a reaction when you need to.
The shot for anyone else that wants to critique it:
Range 387yrds
Rise 7% grade rise
Wind zero to less than 5mph zero value ( head on)
Animal quarters away
Tool = Sako custom build 270wsm
Ammo hand loads Barnes tsx 140gr
Speed 3217fps
BC=.404
SD=.261
Estimated energy at target = 1780ftlb +/-
POA= 400 MILL MARK HELD DOWN .2MILL ( equals 3.4 inches below desired point of impact)

When you look at the entry hole, remember I’m shooting up a 7% rise in grade and it was quarters away. Shot entered behind shoulder about equal to diaphragm and blew the heart to less than snot.
So, I don’t understand how the technical aspect of my shot is so unethical as I was told in pms. Jealousy????

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Don’t worry about it Randy! I’m sure it’s mainly from unfamiliarity of what modern weapons and optics are capable of. The longest confirmed military kills are now measured in miles, not hundreds of yards. And 400 yards is a common distance out west, where I know you often hunt. Thanks for sharing your story!

Randy anyone that says it was an unethical shot does not know you or your capabilities. Just ignore the uninformed. Nice shot and many happy meals.

ANY shot that the shooter is incapable of executing, is an unethical shot.

I’ve seen bow and gun hunters that should not be taking ANY shots, even point blank.

Congrats Randy on filling your tag. Just put in a full day on that extra work weekend.

This is a good example of why we there should not be an APR in WI. It happens.

Randy, thank you for sharing your story. If you are comfortable making the shot, which by the sounds of it, you certainly are, then take it. You clearly thought that part through, just missed the detail about horns. That is a long way to shoot, I would never attempt a shot that far due to inexperience, because I don’t practice anything like that either so I am not confident in MY or my GUN’s abilities. Some day it would be fun to shoot some long range targets, but I don’t have the equipment for that now and where I hunt I rarely get a shot over 75 yards so practicing just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for me right now.
Good on you to point out the error and own up to it. You didn’t break the law, had a tag for it and used it.

This is a good lesson to be reminded of. I know I passed on an elk in the timber a few years ago because I couldn’t see the head clearly… stupid buck stumbled across me and spooked both of us and by the time I swung back around the elk was gone.

As for 400 yard shots – I think you were fine. You clearly know your load and your shot – and you made a good kill. My average shot for elk has been over 300. I think folks around the upper Midwest get a little fussy, but in general they aren’t shooting far.

Nice shooting, Randy.

– I did the same thing at 150 yards this year…partner and I glassed does on the edge of a field with high grass behind them for at least 5 minutes. Late afternoon, cloudy/flat light shot. This doe had two 5″ spikes that were straight as an arrow and we neither of us saw them. Legal kill but sure surprised us.

If someone has used an open-sight 30-30 their whole life, I could understand their concerns about taking a 400 yard shot.

A. Good optics
B. Capable Gun/Ammo
C. Practice
All are required to make 300+ yards a viable shot.

Would I reach out over 200-250 yards, no… but then, I don’t meet all of the above criteria.

My son took a speed goat at 450 yards in WY a month ago with a rifle/optics custom built for long distance shooting. The friends he hunted with have a 600 yd range on their ranch and made sure he was comfortable with the rifle and distances before heading out to hunt. (He lives in ND and does a ton of dog shooting at long distances, so not new to him.)

Pete

I have my tc encore shooting very good out to 200 yds. I wouldn’t be afraid to take a poke even to 250. I think you put a very well placed shot on that deer. confidence and practice goes a long ways in the field. too bad you had to use a buck tag on it but congrats anyway.

Good reminder, Randy. Thanks for sharing this. Very important to understand, especially in these days of “long range” hunting.

On numerous occasions, I’ve had a doe that I was glassing suddenly turn into a buck just by moving or changing the angle of its head. This has happened so often that I now look at each deer as often as possible, every time it moves, to see if the change in position reveals anything new.

When my kids are in the blind, I ask them to identify each deer we see and then I ask them “Are you sure?” several times after they say a deer is a doe. They now both understand how difficult it can be to see antlers and they have had the experience of misidentifying a number of deer so they know not to trust their first observation.

For the ground or tower stand hunter, one of the handiest tools ever is the spotting scope or now most better binoculars come with a plug that hides a threaded tripod mount. You must buy the tripod end of the mount, but Leupold, Ziess, Vortex, etc all off this accessory for about $30. It’s amazing how much more detail you can see with a good, steady pair of binocs or a spotting scope.

Grouse

I was bit reactive yesterday. Guess I wasn’t anticipating swamp hunters critiquing my ethics. I do appreciate the negative comments kept in PMs. Keeps the forum a little cleaner.

I never intended this to be about distance and what one considers “long range” everyone has a different opinion and that’s fine since we all hunt different habitat.

Like someone mentioned, even at 150 yards, with a backdrop that blends, it can be very hard to tell some days. Especially in that first and last minutes of shooting hours.
I had a responsibility to know my target. After more than 40 years of chasing whitetail, I got a reminder of how easy it is to fail

Randy Wieland wrote:

I never intended this to be about distance and what one considers “long range” everyone has a different opinion and that’s fine since we all hunt different habitat.

I hope you don’t think I was being critical of you. I know I’m not capable of a shot like that so I wouldn’t take it, but I know there are guys, obviously such as yourself who have prepared and are capable. Right now, I will just take my 75 yard or under shots, since that is about the max distance we can effectively see anyway. If I hunted near clearings, etc, I would certainly practice longer shots in case I had that opportunity come up.
In all honesty Randy, the vast majority of the people would have shot that deer and would have not had the reaction you did when you discovered the err being it was antlered. They would have just celebrated the long shot and went on their way. YOU PROVED how much of a sportsman you really are by sharing your disappointment. That is what separates what happened to you vs someone else.
Many others would have been just ecstatic about shooting “a deer”. You on the other hand are focused on the craft and were disappointed with a detail that you didn’t pick up on right away. I say good for you and thanks for sharing for others to think about.

Like someone mentioned, even at 150 yards, with a backdrop that blends, it can be very hard to tell some days. Especially in that first and last minutes of shooting hours.

I had a responsibility to know my target.

After more than 40 years of chasing whitetail, I got a reminder of how easy it is to fail.

Completely agree with your message to younger hunters regarding the responsibilities that come with hunting. Well stated.

Pete

Looks like you made a nice shot to me.

Either way, I think 387 yards is a hell of a poke and not “easy” by any means. I wouldn’t be comfortable taking that shot either, but like others said, with lots of practice like it sounds you have had and high quality optics and loads, I don’t think it is anything for people to give you a hard time about. Alot the guys out west regularly poke them from 250-400 yards.

CaptainMusky wrote:

I hope you don’t think I was being critical of you.

Nope – not at all.
As I mentioned, I got a lot of crap in PMs, which I think it was good that individuals that disagreed with me shooting as far, brought their opinions privately. That is why I would never call any of those people out by name or their forum names. But I do believe that if someone PMs me something like that, there is obviously more people who think the same but didn’t act on it. Now that I took a breather, I found that most of them are names I don’t know/recognize.
I’ve been around since FishtheRiver days. I’m not perfect and I’ve made a few mistakes… But the people that I enjoy sharing information with know me quite well. I don’t take well to having my ethics and integrity questioned. For me, that’s a true kick in the hind end

In the military, we dropped half human silhouettes at 300 meters… with open sights easily. That said…. I sight my hunting rifles at 100 yards and practice mostly about 70 yards. I would never try a 400 yard shot.. unless I sighted & practiced at 400 yards. Obviously Randy practiced very well and made a clean kill. Put me in the “nice doe” with nuts category too… about 5 or 6 years ago, my BIG DOE had a 4″ spike behind the ear and the other antler growing flat along the top of the head. This was at about 35 yards… there goes my buck tag…

Judging by hit in the picture of the ribs Randy I’d say your ethics are fine. I’ll bet Olivia could deliver the same hit at that range. The doe with nuts? Well, that can happen to the best so no sweat. Nice shooting and even better eating. Enjoy your weekend on the ranch! lol

randy great job on your details!! 1 shot 1 kill I hear these people shoot 3 or 4 times as they didn’t take the right shot or hurried it!! I don’t think I have ever shot more than 1 bullet at a deer ever. great job we need more of you teaching full grow adults ha

Nice poke on that deer buddy, but how far can you throw a football?

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Doe with nuts for me too. 6-7 years ago on monday morning after opening weekend. Friends have a deer cutting party at 9:30 am. I figured i still had 2 tags, 1 either, and 1 management tag. I would go sit the first couple hours. Right at first light i had a big “doe” on a ridge 200 yards away. I watched her work toward me for 10 minutes. At 150 yards she gave me a great broadside shot. I walked up to her to find 1 antler about the same as the right side of your deer. I was horrified. I immediately regreted being in a hurry to shoot a deer quickly just to make it to my friends on time. I had checked with my binoculars multiple times. His ear had covered it just perfectly. I sheepishly put my buck tag on my “doe” and drug him home. It happens, and we learn from it. I havent come close since, and have told and taught this story to my boys so my mistake can be their lesson.

stinkfinger wrote:

Nice poke on that deer buddy, but how far can you throw a football?

Not.too far, I’m falling apart

Is 400 yards necessary to hunt deer in Wisconsin? Or is it more of a novelty approach to say you did it? Asking for a friend

skinnywater wrote:

Is 400 yards necessary to hunt deer in Wisconsin? Or is it more of a novelty approach to say you did it? Asking for a friend

Necessary = nothing is truly a necessity. I could limit myself to 25 yrds with a 50 cal BMG if I wanted to.

Novelty = not even remotely close to my vocabulary when it come to discharging a firearm. If I send a bullet down range at any distance, regardless of 5 yrds or 500yrds, it’s done with the same mechanics and precision to ethically kill an animal as effectively as possible.

Everyone hunts different habitat, and each has its own circumstances. When I hunted for years in the beaver swamps around Prentice, a 100 yrds shot was like shooting a mile. My first buck was shot at about 25 feet.
40 years later, I chose to hunt from the comfort of a relatively luxurious tower stand. I located it as central as I could to over look most of my fields, and stay away from my deer driving neighbors. I have over 500yrds of clear view to the south, 300+ to the north, and around 250yrds each west and east.
I enjoy the most watching deer on their natural movement. More so, I get nearly 100% shots at deer slowing walking/grazing vs running deer. More than hunting, I enjoy plinking steel and flip targets all year long. Besides professional competition shooters, I don’t know of many people that shoots as much as I do. But I am well versed in what I do, and it’s a passion for perfection. So, I am well prepared for a chip shot of 400 or 500 yrds. For someone else, they may think that is “long distance”. Its all relative to what you know and what you experience.

Now,a good friend of mine has tower stands and watches in excess of a 1000 yrds. Doesn’t mean he shoots that far, but I know his skills and he easily could. One of my cousins still hunts the swamps, and will never use an optic. His max shot has never been over 30 yrds.

I also spend a lot of time in colorado and wyoming for everything from pdogs to elk. 300 to 500 yrds is typical. Ill shoot pdogs and coyotes out over 600yrds. But i draw the line at about 550 for big game for me. Yes, i can reach out there. But i personally believe for me that my most affective range is just over half of what i practice.
The means of hunting is not a one size fits all. So how do we define a necessity for distance?

I did the same thing 4 years ago muzzleloader hunting…not over 40 yards away thought I had a nice doe…my 8 year old ran over to the downed deer and yelled back to me “dad it is a huge doe, and it has tiny antlers!” We still laugh about it…all was good as I still had a buck tag…this ones antlers actually went straight down on one side..

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