Electric Trucks

biggill wrote:

No different than a hydroelectric dam.

I agree. Dams rely on gravity (head pressure).

The sun does the work of moving the water uphill for us (evaporation/precipitation), the dam takes advantage of it.

The energy has to come from somewhere, and there is no such thing as a self-contained revolving hydroelectric dam.

The power created isn’t enough to pump the water back up to create a perpetual cycle. There is always a loss during energy transfer.

Just as that mining truck can’t go back up the hill with the same load.

My truck gets 500 mpg going downhill too. On the way down it could create enough energy to slingshot a bicycle back up

A specialized situation for sure.

I’m sure most know that lost EVs are able to generate some electricity by braking. I would guess the larger the vehicle the less the benefit. Partly because aerodynamics play a larger part with larger vehicles and while towing.

Part of my point with the Model x Tesla is that those guys assumed that since the trailer was essentially the same weight as the tow vehicle that the efficiency would be half. Well they obviously didn’t account for the massive brick shaped trailer they were pulling. The car is much more efficient at deflecting airflow than that enclosed trailer and would only add to the energy loss. 1/3 the mileage would be expected no matter what energy source you use.

Matt Moen wrote:

Fifty years ago guys said this same thing when ATV’s started replacing pack horses.

The tech will catch up like it always does.

Fifty years ago they were not using ATV’s I agree. If you’ve ever been out West hunting the ATV’S are not a cure all tool. Most areas they are useless except for another tool that requires expense.

The pack horses are still used a lot. Most times human power is used too move the meat to a road or access for the ATV. Pack horses still do quite a bit of the work.

ATV’S out west cannot do what a pack horse or Mule can do.

No doubt wind resistance plays a big role, but moving more mass takes more energy, even with the same wind resistance.

If you put 5,000 pounds of cargo INSIDE the same car, the mileage will still suffer considerably even though the wind resistance remains identical.

The claims by Atlis about the 15 minute charge are clearly extremely ambitious if not outrageous but they have possible competitors very nervous that they actually deliver on their promise. They’ve raised $1M from crowdfunding and are now positioned to make a prototype. They have the technology but they don’t have years of r&d like Rivian does. Rivian actually has working prototypes in the field and major players paving the way to make sure they have the tools they need to succeed.

The claim that the infrastructure doesn’t exist is only partly true. Charging stations can be installed much much much more easily and cost effective than a gas station. Super charging stations need to be expanded but demand will drive that need.

B-man wrote:

If you put 5,000 pounds of cargo INSIDE the same car, the mileage would still suffer considerably even though the wind resistance remains identical.

True only because the tires would generate more resistance as they flatten on the road due to added weight. Possibly some added friction on the wheel bearings but other than that, I think it would only go up proportionally with the weight. I think…

The point is in that while towing, the energy type doesn’t make any difference.

interesting but 20 years out. nobody thought we would be buying weed legally in the streets 10 years ago. I didn’t think I would be replacing my gas auger with an electric bit, but I will be this year based on being one step ahead of the tech. I sold all my tube TV’s a year before I seen the writing on the wall. It is not a matter of if but when before most of the vehicles we drive are battery powered. It will first start with parcel carriers, police, government and state vehicles. Got to keep up with the ever changing world we live in or you will be left in the dust due to your stubborness.

Resistance eats energy no matter what you do……

Imagine the mileage we could see if our highways had electromagnets built in

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev

I’m pretty sure any high school physics teacher will have big problem with this article. all that weight takes more energy to haul up the hill also.
the energy needs to come from some ware.

The only way I could see this being possible is if it goes uphill empty and goes downhill fully loaded. Otherwise, I think you’re correct

The 45-ton eDumper drives up a 13-percent incline to pick up the 65 tons of lime and marl it needs to bring to a nearby cement factory. It’s so heavy when it drives back down that its regenerative braking system generates most or all of the energy used to go up the hill.

Love how people argue something they didn’t even bother to read or your reading comprehension needs a bit of work. It clearly says in the article the truck goes up the hill EMPTY and down the hill LOADED. The regenerative braking while going down the hill recharges the battery to full which allows the truck to turn around and go back up the hill empty. NEVER NEEDING TO STOP TO RECHARGE. Yes I was being a bit facetious about it being an actual perpetual motion machine but it’s probably the closest thing to one we may ever see.

Hemp ethanol is about five times cheaper than gasoline

philtickelson wrote:

I’m really struggling over here.

Your struggles should be discussed with a therapist, or maybe your husband. I cannot help you there. I apologize.

Sorry guys, never thought about the loaded /unloaded thing. There are a lot of exaggerated claims out there. We will get there on electric vehicles, but the battery tech needs to get better. I think electric vehicle use will expand but I think there will be a need for internal combustion for a long time. Also something most people don’t take into consideration on electric vehicles is that every time you convert one form of energy to another there are losses (mechanical to electrical, electrical to chemical, electrical to magnetic, etc.). For electrical generation/transmission using fossil fuel, you burn the fuel, usually to heat water to produce steam, that turns a turbine that turns a generator, the electrical energy is transformed (stepped up to a high voltage) for transmission over a long distance then transformed (stepped down)sometimes more than once to the end user, then used to charge your battery(s). then the battery’s are discharged to the motor. each one of these has varying amount of losses, but it adds up to a huge percentage of the energy in the fuel being wasted. there are more losses but you get the idea.
In other words only a small percentage of the energy in the fuel you burned makes it to mechanical energy to turn your wheels. Didn’t mean to call anyone one on the forum. I’ll go back to mostly listening (reading) and less commenting now.
Jeff

Jeff Gilberg wrote:

Sorry guys, never thought about the loaded /unloaded thing. There are a lot of exaggerated claims out there. We will get there on electric vehicles, but the battery tech needs to get better. I think electric vehicle use will expand but I think there will be a need for internal combustion for a long time. Also something most people don’t take into consideration on electric vehicles is that every time you convert one form of energy to another there are losses (mechanical to electrical, electrical to chemical, electrical to magnetic, etc.). For electrical generation/transmission using fossil fuel, you burn the fuel, usually to heat water to produce steam, that turns a turbine that turns a generator, the electrical energy is transformed (stepped up to a high voltage) for transmission over a long distance then transformed (stepped down)sometimes more than once to the end user, then used to charge your battery(s). then the battery’s are discharged to the motor. each one of these has varying amount of losses, but it adds up to a huge percentage of the energy in the fuel being wasted. there are more losses but you get the idea.
In other words only a small percentage of the energy in the fuel you burned makes it to mechanical energy to turn your wheels. Didn’t mean to call anyone one on the forum. I’ll go back to mostly listening (reading) and less commenting now.
Jeff

Sorry about posting yet another video, but I really like this guys videos. He does a very good job explaining these types of things.

Innovation is neat. My wife and I explored buying a Model 3 this summer but went with something else as there was not a charging station available in the building we moved to. Electric car would work for 95+% of our needs. With more advancements and expanded charging options coming, the future will be interesting.

My question lies with the chargers for all the various types of vehicles. Will there be a universal charger for all makes/models? Current gas pumps accommodate all gas vehicles. Seems like these manufacturers could help themselves if a universal charger existed. Joint investment in infrastructure to benefit all. Maybe it does exist and I am ignorant to it.

Probably an electric truck would require much more electricity and would take too long to charge it so still not a fan of it for its 1st release but if they would perfect it then I might go for it.

Pretty cool progress.

https://news.psu.edu/story/594641/2019/10/30/research/and-out-10-minute-electrical-vehicle-recharge

Heating the battery to 140*f for ten minutes to help it charge faster. What could go wrong? lol. I hope they find another way.

I worked on the design of a mining truck similar to the one described. The standard mine truck had electric traction motors similar to a train locomotive, powered by a diesel generator. Diesel is very expensive to source to a remote mine however stringing High voltage power lines is quite easy as well much of the mine uses electric power. The intent was to drive the traction motors from overhead trolley lines to supply electricity, when hauling the load (up to 300 tons) to the top of the mine. The system allowed the trucks to generate electricity on the way down using the motors as generators via gravity then having an inverter push the electricity into the trolley lines which had the effect of reducing the overall electric usage of the mine. On a Kw/hour basis it was a much more cost effective solution than the traditional use of diesel for generating power, therefore the payback made sense.

What happens to all these electric cars when there is a natural disaster and the power goes out??

riverruns wrote:

What happens to all these electric cars when there is a natural disaster and the power goes out??

Gas pumps use electricity too.

riverruns wrote:

What happens to all these electric cars when there is a natural disaster and the power goes out??

All the batteries will get stripped out of them and hauled off to the nearest solar powered Thunderdome.

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>riverruns wrote:</div>
What happens to all these electric cars when there is a natural disaster and the power goes out??

Gas pumps use electricity too.

Generators make electricity

There were many gas vehicles on the road prior to the use of electric gas pumps. Gas can be pumped by hand if needed, gravity fed or poured into a vehicle directly from a storage container if one has to. Generators could be used to power electric gas pumps or even to recharge electric cars themselves in some cases in emergencies also.

B-man wrote:

Generators make electricity

Good point. You could pump gas and charge an ev.

*insert here photoshop pic of a Tesla with 3 gas generators in it’s trunk

Solar doesn’t require any gas…

Deuces wrote:

*insert here photoshop pic of a Tesla with 3 gas generators in it’s trunk

That’s not eco-friendly

biggill wrote:

Solar doesn’t require any gas…

But it requires a grid.

A couple panels on the roof of your house won’t cut it for charging an EV.

Deuces wrote:

*insert here photoshop pic of a Tesla with 3 gas generators in it’s trunk

I’m disappointed. We deserve an actual photo.

One day I’ll learn to Photoshop.

The world simply isn’t ready for that day…