Need some help/advice.

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That is a great deal Wade. I use my 460 all the time for recording underwater footage for TV

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Thanks Scott. It is SOLD!

I have an 8 month old field bred English Springer Spaniel. I have had her retrieving dummies for the last couple of months, one of which I attached pheasant wings to. I introduced her to a dead pigeon yesterday. She retrieved it great but was unwilling to give it up. She chomped on it like it was food. How do I get her to release the bird to me with a much softer mouth? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Soak the dummie in cuyann pepper ??? I know there are tricks to soften the bite, I am sure someone in the know will chime in Don ????

big G

It sounds like you are on the right track. Your end goal is to have your dog retrieve to hand every time.
Don’t rush it and get results by taking very small steps. You introduced her to a dead bird yesterday, thats all you should of wanted to accomplish.
When I introduce birds, I am not looking for the dog to do anything but have fun finding and chasing birds. If they run off with it or eat it, thats fine. The dog needs to get the taste of blood in their mouth.

After a few sessions of bird chasing, I then will add gunfire. The greatest retriever in the world will do you no good if it is gunshy. I will work the birds with gunfire until the dog is completely used to noise. So far I am not concerned about any retrieving.
You said she just was unwilling to give it up, thats perfectly natural. On your next sessions have two birds with you. When she has the first bird almost back to you throw a second ones. This works great with locked winged birds. As she get used to this game you then can add steps to complete the retrieve. She knows that after she brings the first bird back she gets to chase the second one. Now instead of tossing the 2nd bird, take the first bird from her and make her sit. This is of course if her obedience training is ok. Again soon she will learn that if she brings the first bird back and now sits, she will get to chase the second bird.

Maybe this will help.

This is an untrained retrieve. You can see on the first toss how excited the dog is. I am not looking for a delivery to hand at the point of return. I take the bumper from the dog and then move him into the sit before the next toss. By repeating this the dog will learn that upon his return he will need to sit where I want him to. Notice how he is in better position for the 2nd toss. I aided this by taking a couple steps forward.

This way I am not trying to do all the steps at on time. I am not beating the dog up for not sitting upon his return. We are just working on fetch it up portion, with a little distraction from another dog.

With more than one bird, they learn quickly. On this video, the dog is a little slow on giving the 1st bird up. He does much better on the 2nd. I walk away from him on the 2nd retrieve to get him to return quicker.

Thanks Don! That was exactly the info I was looking for. I’m sure I will have more questions down the road.

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I have an 8 month old field bred English Springer Spaniel. I have had her retrieving dummies for the last couple of months, one of which I attached pheasant wings to. I introduced her to a dead pigeon yesterday. She retrieved it great but was unwilling to give it up. She chomped on it like it was food. How do I get her to release the bird to me with a much softer mouth? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Another idea. ( I couldn’t open Don’s clips)
At this early age I would go back and work on the “Here” command. A dog that understands that has little time for munching and messing with you.

When everything else is in place, and the dog is returning with the bird, but simply does not want to open it’s mouth, a little trick I picked up from the Delmar Smith book really works well. Leaning over the dog – use your free arm to hook that free flap of skin on the dogs flank with two fingers. Just hook it with two fingers and gently lift. The dog WILL open it’s mouth. Painless and easy – and no discomfort gets associated with the bird in mouth – as the distraction/discomfort is on the other end of the dogs body……It has worked very well for me.

Tim

A little more detail. Get a few live birds and do 6 or so short sessions of letting her chase and catch birds. Do this in a field setting. Soon she will have only one purpose, Being in the field means finding birds! next when out in the field, toss the birds as I mentioned before. Do this a few times. Next, have a helper with a .22 blank pistol stand about 100 yards away. When you toss the bird, have the helper fire right before the bird hits the ground. What you want to look for, is no hesitation from the dog. As long as the dogs focus remains on chasing the bird, move your helper in to 50yds. Do this over a matter of time, we are in no hurry. Soon the helper will be able to fire from about ten yards behind the dog. repeat the process using a .410. At anytime the dog looks towards the gun or even twiches, go back to a greater distance away or throwing birds without gunfire. When everything is good with the .410 move up to a 20 or 12 gauge. Remember when switching guns always start at 100 yds away. I would be looking at a minimum of 50 tosses to complete this. If it takes more that is fine.
When things are good with birds and guns, you can start on the retrieving.

Some excellent tips Don and Timmy!

Don – does it matter when you do this training? Age of the dog? Time of the year?

I like to get the dog started as early as possible. Get the pup out to experience things. Rides in the truck, walks around other people and dogs, chasing robbins. Letting them play with wings and chasing bumpers with feathers attached. Exploring light cover fields. all of this will build confidence in the dog. At about 4 months old is when I like to intro to birds and guns. Birds first, I will toss a clipped wing bird in an open field and let the pup chase away. I want the pup thinking birds,birds, birds. 4 to 8 months old is the age I like doing this type of training.
When I first introduce a dog to the field- birds and guns, I am not looking for compliance to any type of commands. I am not working on retrieving either. After this introduction I then will go back and start obedience training. I do not do obedience work in the field. The field is for fun and birds. Along with the obedience training I now start working on the retrieve. I like using a corridor or lane. Set up a lane using snow or garden fencing, something where the only place the dog can go is back to you. Toss a bird down the lane and the dog should return back to you. This will become a habit with repitition. I usually kneel down so if the dog tries to run by me, I can stop him. This is where I will start getting the dog to give me the bird. My favorite method to get the dog to give me the bird, Gently blow in the dog nostrils.
Now we have a dog that loves to chase birds, fetches and has some basic obedience. I always think in threes. This is from another trainer- all you need is a dog that will go away from you, stop and come back. Can’t be a easier right? Think of threes- find the bird, flush it, and fetch it.
Thinking of threes again, I take the following approach to training- Try, apply, comply. We first have to show the dog what we want them to do. This is the try phase. Lets take sit for example: I am going to show the dog what sit is. I am not going to add any pressure or doing any type of correction at this point because the dog does not know the command at this point. I go through this time and time again- we will try, try, try. once the dog understands we will apply what he has learned. He knows the command now I will apply pressure and correction to build a confident dog. next the dog after being properly trained will comply on the first command.
Now we have a dog that loves birds and listens to commands. Combine the two and you have yourself a gundog!
Age does matter, it gets tougher as the dog gets older. Especially if the dog has been surpressed on prey drive. I had a 2 year old yellow lab brought to me for training. The dog loved retrieving, brought dead birds back to hand. When I tossed a running bird down the dog looke at it, turned and walk the other direction! It was trained at a young age not to chase game. This was a tough onr to correct needless to say.
I train all year long, just be aware of extreme cold and hot conditions. Also make sure you allow enough time for training before hunting season begins.

Don – I love the try, comply and apply method! Does it work on kids?

Do you have the same approach for pointers vs. flushers? Is one easier to train than the other?

On kids I go straight to the E-collar! I have worked with some pointers but am not qualified to give a fair judgement. As long as the prey drive is there things are pretty much the same.

Don, I took her out to a field this afternoon and took your advice and used 2 pigeons. It worked great!! Thanks for your help.

Pete

Great , when you get to gun intro let us know. I have some tips that may help you out.

Force Fetch.