breeding

I have my chocolate lab Diesel, which Don H got me and thanks by the way, he is a great dog. but I do not have papers for him, his lines are both hunting dogs but I do not have papers for him. I have a friend who has a female with papers for hers. how much doe sthis effect as she wants 1 litter and tehn get hers fixed. I know she would not be able to get the 4 to 500 since ther are no papers for diesel, but any thoughts on what she would be able to get? she is pretty much just looking to break even for the cost of vet bills and such at the least.

thanks-
Broncs

It does make it tougher, but she should break even atleast. It will help if she can have both the mother and father around when she sells the puppies. I’ve been helping a trainer sell puppies for 7 or 8 years now and it seems alot more people want to see those papers. Personally a paper is just a paper, I’d rather see the parents out hunting.

She would have both out there and yep even the diesel looks well when it comes to looking the part and very trainable. he even has the “you missed now what do I do?” look down.

Broncs

I purposely left this post alone for a day, hoping somebody else would chime in
With all respect due to Broncosguy and Bigfife, I will give you my honest opinion.
If done properly, this litter of puppies will end up costing the breeder money and likely be difficult to sell.
I too have bred several litters of pedigreed pups and even ended up with a mixed litter.
My wife and I took this responsibility very seriously, completely clearing the welping pen and box three times daily and disinfecting everything.
I administered all vacinations and removed dew claws myself.
We did feed premium dog food and calf/goat milk supplement for wheening throughout the time that they spent with us.
I never did let a pup leave until 7 weeks of age and tried to move them very quickly then.
A puppy over 10 weeks old can be very difficult to sell if you have not begun some training.
I have dogs in 7 different states right now including Alaska and Kentucky. I can honestly say that I never made a dime and the rewarding hobby likely cost us a little something.
I do not want to start any controversay here, but if the breeder has a realistic idea of what they are getting into and still chooses to move forward, this will likley be a good experience.
Also consider the current economy , animal shelter and stray numbers are very high!
Good luck
cheers

This is one of the most heated debate topics that come up out there. Some people do not believe in papers at all. As they say only good for TP at best.

For the most part this can be true. Having them though gives you valuable info. They help to track what is out there. Good traits can be enhanced, and poor ones can be avoided. generations down the road you have lost what you once had. It is easy to go back and find them again. Certain problems that affect each breed can be weeded out quickly when you know what you are looking for.

The thought process of breeding one good dog to another good dog makes a better dog does always work. It is done alot, and does produce many culls. For some breeds like the hounds culls are a common practice. Not so when it comes to labs though. Most of the time the traits that make a good dog are coming from a few generations back. Mostly the grandparents. So breding good to good, can end up real bad.

As for selling the pups. In the midwest a dog without papers is hard to move. In the southern and western states mix bred hunting dogs still fetch a high dollar. Especially for the hound hunters out west. Rarely is preserving the top blodlines in any breed about making money. The pride that comes from enhancing a breed is more important to these purists. It’s very easy to dillute a very good bloodline.

In alot of the breeds good info about breeding for the best is hard to come by. When it comes to some strians of hounds this is discussed very openly. Especially in one of the lesser known breeds the Plott hound. A lot of information can be found out there if you are willing to put in the time.

I know some of you will find this offensive. it was not intended to be. Still this is a hot topic for some.

I believe proper breeding is important. There are already to many mutts out there. This leads to health problems, and full shelters.

Hope this helps you a little, and doe not make too many mad at me.

Steve

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I believe proper breeding is important. There are already to many mutts out there. This leads to health problems, and full shelters.

Hope this helps you a little, and doe not make too many mad at me.

Steve

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cheers

I have to agree with Drakes and Steve. It may not be so important in a different breed, but there are a TON of labs out there, and without any papers, you have no idea where this dog came from. Some poorly bred labs have many poor traits (hips, eyes, etc) that could create problems for someone to use as a hunting dog, and they could be VERY hard to move.

If it were me, I would not do it, but we all have different motivations for breeding a dog. I think at some time in my life I will breed a couple litters since I love dogs, but realize it is certainly not for money, but personal satisfaction. If this is your motivation, go for it but at your own risk, you could end up with a couple dogs at your house

that is what it is. we were just talking about it and she was interested in doing just 1 litter and she is a vet tech and wants to experience it???? not sure what that is to mean. as for the Papers I am working with Don H on here as he was the one who got me in touch with Diesel. not in it for money that is for sure. as if hey were bred at my place I could almost guarantee I would have 2 or 3 still there as the wife/kids would say they are jsut to cute to give up.blah blah blah stuff. but totally understand both sides of the arguement.

and on a side note, Farmboy1 you just agree with them because you do not like me, not sure what I have done to you, but that is how it seems as you never agree with any of my posts. (j/k as we know how people take things the wrong way). I enjoy your posts as you say it how it needs to be said and not what someone wants to hear.

Broncs

Sorry, Broncoguy, I guess I had no intention of busting your chops and did not realize I was doing it on a regular basis. I have a kinda grudge against labs after I have seen too many of the poor breeding practices that damage the breed and allowing hip/eye problems. This is in no way saying you would do this, but it seems like there is enough of it going on. I also know a few labs that are fantastic dogs, but I guess a couple bad experiences left a bad taste in my mouth.

I think breeding dogs is a very important part of a creature that you will live with for 10-15 years and I personally am very hesitant to get a dog without knowing as much as I can about its background.

I cringe when I drive by Cabelas before Christmas and they are selling dogs out of the back of a truck. I know they sell dogs, and I don’t fault the sellers. I just could not decide to get a dog after seeing it on the side of the road. Too many unknowns for me.

Again, sorry to get down on you. I had no intention of doing it, but come on now, you are a Broncos fan and need at least a little guff

By the way, I love your avatar, nothing like getting kids outside fishing

I agree with others above as a LOVER of LABS. Too many pople breeding there labs with out proper papers and health history. Some labs have huge health problems that only get carried down when bred. Hips and even a newer problem I have been seeing is the labs actually have their muscles and heart do some funky things when they get excited or under heavy excersie(hunting). They almost seem to have like a heart attack or seizure and believe me it is not good to see in the field. This is a trait that is often passed down to offspring. Maybe someone else can shed better light on this health condition, but i know a guy that his dog had this condition and bred him and his offspring are having the same problem. Not good.

Breeding helathy dogs is a good thing. Have your dogs hips and eyes checked before breeding them. You want to make sure your future pup is a healthy rascal. You owe it to them. Same fgoes for when picking out a pup. Look at the parents papers and see if there eyes and hips have been checked/certified.

PS: I think busting Broncos Guys chops is a good thing!

Right Jeff.

now lip be nice or I am telling Stacy. . totally agree with the posts and such. was more of a inquiry then anything. Last thing I want is a litter and 5 or 6 unclaimed dogs.

no worries about busting my chops. was just playing with you. Your post are pretty informative and enjoyable at times.

in that avatar I think I caught 1 of those fish. other wise it is all them. and all 3 are very acurtate and active with a 5 1/2 foot open face from teh pontoon. they can cast into a garbage can. or at least coudl last year. that is the practice in the back yard so there are no tangles. and they keep score. 9, 6 and 5 are the ages this year sothe competition is going to get better each year.

Broncs

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Too many pople breeding there labs with out proper papers and health history. Some labs have huge health problems that only get carried down when bred.

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I agree 100%. IMO both labs being bred need to have all their health clearances. OFA hips/elbows, PRA/CERF, CNM, and most recently EIC.