DNR Roundtable “ Ice Camping” ?

2020 Roundtable discussion –At the end of our day at the MN DNR Roundtable many anglers meet in what is now called “Fisheries Forward”. It’s a chance for us to tell the DNR what we think.

Fishing with two lines, fishing electronics causing increased pressure. Protecting larger Bluegills , the abundance of wheel houses repeatedly hammering someone’s pet Crappie hole are usual gripes and ideas. A new one this year was: Charging wheel house’s camping fees? One participant suggested we not look at wheel house as ice fishing shelters, but rather as “Ice Camping on publicly state owned property” and that maybe it should be treated like camping in a State Park with a nightly fee. Also insinuated by some were rumors of black water (waste water) being discharged through the ice . While some of us found humor in the idea of lake ice camping fees, some seemed serious, serious enough that it took up a large chunk of out time. LOL The fact that wheel houses are opening up access to our lakes and bringing more families back to ice fishing doesn’t stop the complainers from making comments. We can’t turn back the clock on fishing technology and advances in wheel houses. Maybe it should be called Fisheries Backward? ( for the sake of transparency my fish house is a skid house)

So if your paying nightly fees to the state to camp on lakes then is the state gonna be responsible for plowing roads for everybody? And how about liability of the ice and vehicles falling in? I don’t ever see this going anywhere

Isn’t that what an ice shelter license is for?

I’m not going to advocate for camping fee’s or permits. However I will say this. I think it’s fairly obvious that with the advent of these wheelhouses lakes statewide are seeing pressure like they have never seen before. Anytime you find something popular like wheelhouses somebody will have their hands out looking to tax it in some way, shape or form.

When the tax or fee comes (and it will come) who will do the collecting? Is the state expecting the road operators to collect the fee’s?

I dunno Buzz…. there are a lot better things the DNR should concentrate on besides worrying about some wheelhouses.

Dutchboy wrote:

I think it’s fairly obvious that with the advent of these wheelhouses lakes statewide are seeing pressure like they have never seen before. Anytime you find something popular like wheelhouses somebody will have their hands out looking to tax it in some way, shape or form.

Funny, because Steve Johnson owner of Johnson’s Portside has been repeating his “opinion” on this more and more lately on his FB video updates/reports. Basically alluding to just what you’re suggesting. Seems he might be clued into something but he ain’t saying for sure. He seems to think something might be coming?

Dutchboy wrote:

I dunno Buzz…. there are a lot better things the DNR should concentrate on besides worrying about some wheelhouses.

Correct you on this Dutch. The suggestion/proposal was not raised by the DNR at the Roundtable, but by citizen committee members.

No doubt there are increasing concerns.

Buzz, you mentioned “insinuated by some were rumors of black water (waste water) being discharged through the ice”

I have seen reports on social media of some despicable behavior being witnessed and discovered.

Sure, I know not to believe everything you see on the internet, however what was described didn’t sound like something you could just make up. They detailed some rather specific polluting…

Dutchboy wrote:

When the tax or fee comes (and it will come) who will do the collecting? Is the state expecting the road operators to collect the fee’s?

They have this thing called the interweb. You can actually access it on your phone from just about anywhere in the world. Believe it or not, you can buy anything you can imagine. Toys, tools, cars, TVs, fishing gear, groceries, homes, etc… I’d be very surprised if 99.998% of wheelhouse owners didn’t have access to it in their pocket. If for some crazy reason they don’t, you can bet Holiday or Kwik Trip does.

If I remember correctly, we are now allowed to carry an electronic version of our fishing license. I know our surrounding states do.

It should also be noted that wheelhouse owners use a significantly disproportionate amount of time on our natural resources than non-owners.

I’m not in-favor of a tax on wheelhouses for “camping.” People who use resources responsibility should not be taxed to the point of no return. My prediction though is that even if some “camping tax” doesn’t come across in the coming years, registration/license fees for wheelhouses will see measurable increases.

However, I do believe the growing number of wheelhouses will continue to put extra pressure on the popular big fisheries. The angler hours are immeasurable when you’ve got houses with lines down 24-7 and capable of keeping people comfortable for week-long trips at a time. Even 10-15 years ago there simply weren’t the convenient options to get people out on the ice that there are today. Does this amount to more harvest? I’m not sure, but I’d assume so. Could this amount to more trash and other issues? I’m sure in some instances it does. A tax isn’t going to protect resources however. It’s going to take education, management, and a little help from mother nature from time to time with storms, poor ice, and some of the slush pockets that are impossible to beat.

I’d be happy if the “ice campers” would pick their garbage and wheel it back home, that may be a pipe dream though…

If they institute a tax (camping fee) for wheelhouses due to the increased pressure they put on a public resource, how long before they invent a new fee for boat owners that fish a lot? It seems like a slippery slope that I wouldn’t want to head down. Maybe address the issues of litter/waste significantly more harshly?

buckybadger wrote:

People who use resources responsibility should not be taxed to the point of no return.

A tax isn’t going to protect resources however.

I’m ok if an additional fee, tax or restriction brings them to the point of less return.

buckybadger wrote:

and some of the slush pockets that are impossible to beat.

I personally would like a restriction on plowing on our MN lakes. The banked snow impedes access, interferes with recreation and can be dangerous. At times, they create slush pockets. Skating rinks included!

I keep hearing hunting and fishing license sales are on the decrease every year. Many younger people are not getting into the outdoor sports as they once did. Of course this is the distant drum beat of license price increases coming.
But wheel houses are on a prolific rise. Wouldn’t license sales reflect that as well? Somethings not lining up?

Anyone could see the shelter tag coming for wheel houses a long time ago I’m surprised it took them as long as it did to get around to it and as a wheel house owner I have no objection to it personally.

My wheel house being a smaller home brew has a lifetime trailer license on it. But I suspect ones that are sold through dealers and registered through the state are going to see increases in registration fees. Do the number of wheel houses and advancements in electronic fish finders create more pressure. I think the obvious answer is yes but is it so much pressure the fisheries can’t be maintained? If it is I don’t think it’s showing yet. Red and LOTW always seem to continue to produce fish year after year. Mother nature is always the great equalizer as it has proven the last couple years.

Interesting topic and it’s going to be interesting so see which direction things take over the next five years even.

I personally would like a restriction on plowing on our MN lakes. The banked snow impedes access, interferes with recreation and can be dangerous. At times, they create slush pockets. Skating rinks included!
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I would take that a step further and prohibit people from waiting a storm out on the ice. If a imminent storm is approaching you get off the ice and no one else is allowed on. I talked to two separate resort owners on this topic last week. They both agreed it’s a serious problem when a number of wheel houses are on the ice during a storm causing additional weight of drifting and banking of snow in addition to the weight of the wheel houses and trucks that are on the ice. And then there is the additional mess created when getting people unstuck. The first two days after a storm is over is spent just getting people off the ice rather than trying to keep their roads open.

Sure the last thing resorts want to do is turn away business but one of them said it’s either or. Shut the roads down early because of the mess created when people stay on the ice or be able to hold your roads several weeks longer because you kept people off.

I think a first step would be to ensure that all the fly by night fish house rental jockeys that run from one lake to the next based on conditions and offer sleeper houses are reporting and collecting the state mandated Lodging taxes. versus going after a wheel house owner for camping taxes. Make sure those that are significantly profiting from public waters with their business are paying appropriate taxes first.

Ice Cap wrote:

I personally would like a restriction on plowing on our MN lakes. The banked snow impedes access, interferes with recreation and can be dangerous. At times, they create slush pockets. Skating rinks included!

I would take that a step further and prohibit people from waiting a storm out on the ice. If a imminent storm is approaching you get off the ice and no one else is allowed on. I talked to two separate resort owners on this topic last week. They both agreed it’s a serious problem when a number of wheel houses are on the ice during a storm causing additional weight of drifting and banking of snow in addition to the weight of the wheel houses and trucks that are on the ice. And then there is the additional mess created when getting people unstuck. The first two days after a storm is over is spent just getting people off the ice rather than trying to keep their roads open.

Sure the last thing resorts want to do is turn away business but one of them said it’s either or. Shut the roads down early because of the mess created when people stay on the ice or be able to hold your roads several weeks longer because you kept people off.

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I think we should take it even a step farther then that and only allow all wheel drive or 4×4 vehicles on roads when it’s snowing or predicted to get 4″+. Over 4″, all vehicles on the roads must have 4 wheel drive. I know some will be bothered by this but when I drive on the hwy’s, there are too many vehicles in the ditch causing added stress and work for first responders.

And don’t get me started on boats! 1-2′ swells for no 14’ers or less, 2-3′ swells, no 18’ers or less and greater then 4′ swells you need a 22′ boat or bigger.

Camping fees are usually tied to parks or campgrounds that have some type of improvement, maintenance or staffing costs. Unless there is some type of permit quota, I don’t ever recall paying a fee for remote backcountry camping in a designated wilderness area or on public property. I’m pretty sure there are no public roads plowed onto lakes for the benefits of fishing that would represent an improvement cost. There is definitely private access in this manner. I don’t see a distinction between a permanent and a wheel house. Permanents have been around for a long time and I’m sure people have been overnighting in them. I don’t have either but would expect both have to be licensed. A wheel house likely also needs a trailer license on top of the shelter license.

Living near the St. Croix a common summer activity is for boaters to moor up and overnight on the sand islands. I doubt there is an extra fee based on the size and amenities of your boat. Maybe I’m wrong…

they better start charging house boats for spending the night on the water also then

This is a simple fix. On at sunrise and off at sunset. And if resort owners say off due to impending weather, off it is.

tegg wrote:

Living near the St. Croix a common summer activity is for boaters to moor up and overnight on the sand islands. I doubt there is an extra fee based on the size and amenities of your boat. Maybe I’m wrong…

This has been my thought exactly. Are they going to start charging fees for all the houseboats anchored on the river for weeks on end?

This is only my 2nd full year with a wheelhouse and I absolutely love it. I was a hard core portable guy, fishing nearly every weekend with an occasional trip to LOTW in sleeper shacks.

My first thought is most new wheelhouse owners are not hardcore fishermen like some of us, maybe I’m wrong. Many simply throw rattle reals down and begin drinking, playing cards, poker, etc.

For me, as a devoted fisherman for decades, the transition to my wheelhouse has changed my strategy when it comes to keeping fish. When portable fishing, I would head out early am shooting for my limit of crappies or walleyes to bring home and freeze. In a wheelhouse, I’m extremely picky about the fish I decide to keep, I rarely keep a limit and usually just keep enough for a meal or two out on the ice. It’s much more satisfying. I have yet to freeze a bag of fish since purchasing my wheelhouse.

outdoorsmn wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tegg wrote:</div>
Living near the St. Croix a common summer activity is for boaters to moor up and overnight on the sand islands. I doubt there is an extra fee based on the size and amenities of your boat. Maybe I’m wrong…

This has been my thought exactly. Are they going to start charging fees for all the houseboats anchored on the river for weeks on end?

This is only my 2nd full year with a wheelhouse and I absolutely love it. I was a hard core portable guy, fishing nearly every weekend with an occasional trip to LOTW in sleeper shacks.

My first thought is most new wheelhouse owners are not hardcore fishermen like some of us, maybe I’m wrong. Many simply throw rattle reals down and begin drinking, playing cards, poker, etc.

For me, as a devoted fisherman for decades, the transition to my wheelhouse has changed my strategy when it comes to keeping fish. When portable fishing, I would head out early am shooting for my limit of crappies or walleyes to bring home and freeze. In a wheelhouse, I’m extremely picky about the fish I decide to keep, I rarely keep a limit and usually just keep enough for a meal or two out on the ice. It’s much more satisfying. I have yet to freeze a bag of fish since purchasing my wheelhouse.

I think the concern is that many wheelhouse fisherman are not as consciousness about the health of a fishery as you are. Certainly there are some good fisherman with wheelhouses but its clear to me that the rise in wheelhouses has brought out people that don’t respect the outdoors or the rules in place to maintain stability.

https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sports/outdoors/4880977-Growing-popularity-of-wheeled-fish-houses-a-game-changer-for-many-resorts-fisheries-managers

Today’s Duluth News Trib. What a coincidence?

That same article is in the Rochester post bulletin today

crappie55369 wrote:

I think the concern is that many wheelhouse fisherman are not as consciousness about the health of a fishery as you are. Certainly there are some good fisherman with wheelhouses but its clear to me that the rise in wheelhouses has brought out people that don’t respect the outdoors or the rules in place to maintain stability.

Individuals not respecting the outdoors or abiding by the rules has been a problem long before wheelhouses. I remember seeing tons of trash left by portable houses and plenty of over limit cases. If anything, many wheelhouses are filled with families just teaching their kids to fish and hopefully teaching them to respect our natural resources.

Overall I think it’s great for the sport, it’s great for families, and it’s great for getting everyone (including newbies and kids) into the outdoors. However, I do believe the DNR will need to put more restrictions on winter harvest.

Taxation without representation.

The DNR does not plow the access to the lake.
Wheelage tax as well and shelter tax is already paid.

Just more local yokos and wealthy lakeshore property owners trying to invent ways to keep (or at least discourage) people from using “their” lake. They invent all kinds of wild reasons to show how people are “damaging” their precious lake by enjoying it.

I’m actually shocked that the infamous, unelected “lakeshore associations” haven’t gotten into the wheelhouse act yet. You KNOW it has to be driving the big money lake homeowners crazy that all these trailer trash wheelhouse owners are now partying hearty and ruining the winter silence with generator noise and flippin strobe lights. How long will it be before one of these lakeshore associations tries to put its own ban on use of the lake say between 10 and 5 AM to prevent wheelhouses from staying?

I’m not saying I’m in favor of it, but I can see where the endless quest for revenue here in Taxesota could easily make a wheelhouse camping tax a reality. Sooner or later somebody had to look at all those big money rigs out on the lake and say to themselves, “Those guys could pay more…”

Grouse

As someone who owns a wheelhouse and tows it from Wisconsin. I purchased mine because at the time I bought mine I was 39 and spending around 2-3k a year on sleeper rentals. So if I keep it 7 years it’ll be paid for just through my use. Not including my kids and my brother and his kids. If I have to now pay a camping tax on top of an out of state shelter license $37 and annual out of state fishing license $52. I would expect to be able to call and reserve a spot on the lake of my choosing where the local municipality plowed a spot, had a shower facility and waste water facilities on shore. As well as dumpsters for my trash. I get some or all of those at most campsites.

I am just glad I don’t ice fish. At least with a boat on the river, it is really easy to find different spots. I think I might be upset if I found a houseboat anchored over most good spots on the river especially if the owner was leaving in another boat and returning the next day, basically having a reserved area for themself.

If someone doesn’t like the fees, license costs and whatever, perhaps they should quit

My uncle has owned a few campers and I have heard about the prices some campsites charge, I think he would be better off selling the camper and getting a motel room as these newer campers are far from camping

Why can’t the Do Nothing Right (DNR) actually discuss improving things by reducing costs. Why are MN licenses still printed on that plastic paper? In WI, you don’t even need a paper license anymore if you can show it on your phone. Affixing a shack license is stupid too, the print fades in the sun. I live in WI, I don’t need to license my wheel house, but I did for ease of going to MN. I called the DNR asking if I need to put my address or DNR number on the shack if I have a license plate – yeap, I guess that’s too complicated.

WI, don’t need a license for the house/trailer and they don’t have shack licenses either.

Targeting wheel houses for camping fees, but not other permanent houses is plain stupid. Sounds like many of the people at the round table aren’t lifelong outdoorsman, but liberals looking for more revenue.

Edited- I can’t remove, I misread the OP, it wasn’t the DNR that suggested it, but a fisherman. But still doesn’t change my other opinions/suggestions.

Ryan Overson wrote:

Why can’t the Do Nothing Right (DNR) actually discuss improving things by reducing costs.

I’ll repeat what was said earlier. This was not brought up by the DNR. It was fishermen that broke the ice on this subject.
Also, our do nothing right dnr allows licenses on cell phones as well as your personal printed license AND the plastic paper type.

Ryan Overson wrote:

Sounds like many of the people at the round table aren’t lifelong outdoorsman, but liberals looking for more revenue.

LOL! Trying to be respectful…but you have no clue. Most of these folk donate many hours towards their favorite species of fish each year. Trying to make it better for the MN residents and even for people that reside in WI but want to fish over here. (btw, why is that? Never mind, topic for another discussion.)

Ideas are brought up, discussed and some make it into law or practice. Others don’t.