From the Minnesota Whitetail Alliance

I agree with you 100 percent but like I have said many times before in these forums Bluffland Whitetails fought for this for years but the DNR will not budge on this so APR was the compromise

The first problem with this is that if they did change the seasons to one season state wide allot of guys who do not own their own land would lose places to hunt because a lot of the land owners are farmers who hunt the second season because they do not have time during the first season. As a result a lot of non-land owners would lose places to hunt because the land owners (farmers) would want it for themselves.

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wisconsin=one season, iowa=one season both don’t have apr. And the fact that getting the hunting season out of the rut but the DNR didn’t listen is funny. Either the DNR knows what they are doing or they dont. Cant have it both ways. And why are we planning a season around a small group of farmers in the southeast portion of the state? Thats the only place there are two seasons. Call APR what it is. APR=more big racked bucks on the hoof ready to be killed. Quit with the smoke and mirrors and call it what it is. To call it anything else I feel is hurting the push for APR in other areas.

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wisconsin=one season, iowa=one season both don’t have apr. And the fact that getting the hunting season out of the rut but the DNR didn’t listen is funny.

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Pretty easy to hide behind a display name when no one knows who you are and criticize a group who has worked hard for years to improve deer hunting in SE MN. if you think it is so easy to get the DNR to move the deer season out of the peak rut time then by all means tell us who you are and show us how easy it is to get this done. My guess is you are one of the many people who point fingers and complain about the deer hunting in MN but never lift a finger to do anything about it.

Nothing like getting right to the point steve. Who began pointing fingers with the original post about the legislators? Not me. I’m a member of qdma and I don’t agree with apr. Not because it doesn’t work but because it is touted as this huge herd management tool when in fact that isn’t the reason Iit was initially introduced. Small groups of individuals pushing their agenda on other hunters. Farmers are the reason that there is two seasons in Se mn? And its because only the farmers would get to hunt the land that they stick so much into? Are these the same dairy farmers that put on orange straight out of the barn and grab their gun and go to the woods? I know a lot of them and I can tell you this. I’m not about ready to point the fingers at them, are you? Oh and steve, i never attacked anyone. Be ready when you post stuff from your organization to be challenged and for people’s opinions to be expressed. That’s all I’m doing. Sorry if it doesn’t line up perfectly with what the whitetail alliance thinks. Next time I’ll have them write my posts. I’m done. I’ll put my information in so you can’t accuse me of hiding behind my screen name too.

Guys,

Let’s not lose sight of the fact we all want what is best for our resources even if we can’t agree on how to go about it. We are our own worst enemy sometimes. Please keep this thread on track so we don’t have to lock it down.

Thank you!!

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Guys,

Let’s not lose sight of the fact we all want what is best for our resources even if we can’t agree on how to go about it. We are our own worst enemy sometimes. Please keep this thread on track so we don’t have to lock it down.

Thank you!!

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I didn’t attack the IDO reporter. HHe came after me because I wasn’tjJohnnyon the spot with putting my personal Iinformation in the profile the first day I registered. Thought this was a site to hang out and talk deer hunting, not get pushed around by an IDO reporter that seems to have a big rack agenda and can plaster it all over this site. You have my word Kooty. I won’t get personal.

My post was directed at everyone. This topic is as close to religion as we get around here. I know we are all passionate about our causes and simply wanted to remind everyone we are in this together.

Carry on. Hope you are all finding a way to stay warm.

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Nothing like getting right to the point steve. Who began pointing fingers with the original post about the legislators?

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Remember the title of my post is ” From the Minnesota Whitetail Alliance” they are not my words I did not write them, they are from the Minnesota Whitetail Alliance Facebook page, I simply reposted it here. I do not post these posts here to debate APR with those who do not agree with APR, I simply repost the info here to keep IDO members and nonmembers informed on what the MWA is up to whether you agree with it or not. Now with that being said I will go on record that I am not a fan of Steve Drazkowski & the Minnesota Deer Hunters Association they did everything they could to stop APR while It was still in its trail period, MDHA is not a friend of MWA nor should they be a friend of anyone who wants to see change for deer hunting in MN, if they had their way we would be deer hunting the way we did thirty years ago shooting all the basket rack bucks and letting all the does walk.

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Call APR what it is. APR=more big racked bucks on the hoof ready to be killed. Quit with the smoke and mirrors and call it what it is. To call it anything else I feel is hurting the push for APR in other areas.

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QDM & APR both want to protect young bucks so more bucks reach maturity, more mature bucks help balance the heard here in SE MN, mature bucks have larger racks, I like to hold out for mature bucks with larger racks there is nothing wrong with that.

I apologize it was not my intention to attack you and I do not care that you did not put your personal info in your profile but, when you said….

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wisconsin=one season, iowa=one season both don’t have apr. And the fact that getting the hunting season out of the rut but the DNR didn’t listen is funny.

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I was not laughing, that is what rubbed me the wrong way, I took that as you saying all the work that Bluffland did to try and move the gun season out of the rut was a joke so yes I take that personally. Don’t think for a second that Bluffland has given up on getting the gun season dates changed in MN it is still a long term goal but changes like this take time it does not happen overnight. You and I want the same thing we both want to protect young bucks and we both want a gun season similar to Iowa & Wisconsin. I am all for QDM, is QDMA working on changing the gun season dates in MN? If they are then maybe it is time that I join.

The thing is steve when u put that stuff on here and you are a member of the organization you are essentially putting your signature on those posts. I guess if you aren’t prepared to be challenged on what the organization that you belong to then i wouldnt post them. In your initial post mwa said legislators seem to know more about deer management than the DNR. Don’t just take a small portion of my quote and take it personally. I went onto say that mwa can’t have it both ways. You didn’t quote that though. Either the DNR knows what they are doing or they dont. That’s what I said. It’s OK for the DNR to implement apr but probably not move the season out of the rut and or eliminate a season. As long as it doesn’t affect certain people then its a good idea. That’s what I find funny. Sorry if you took it as me laughing at you. Let the DNR do their job and leave the organization’s out of it. Qdma starts getting their hands into it and I can assure you I would quit. Let the DNR do their job without the outside pressure of special interest groups. I like to shoot mature bucks too and I choose to hold off as well, but my point is there are better ways to balance the herd that doesn’t restrict what people can and can’t pull the trigger on. I’ve shot basket racks, I’ve shot plenty of does and the occasional mature buck. I’m proud of all of them. I enjoyed my time hunting and taking them. Since apr has been installed i have had less and less enjoyment because if you don’t stick a monster then people look down on you and that stinks. the big buck/herd management down in Se mn has had a negative affect on the hunting culture in that area. That to me is more important than any big racked monster. Good luck hunting.

Sorry that I thought you were laughing at me.
It’s all good you and I both want the same thing better deer hunting in MN.

I do have to respectively disagree with you on one thing, when you said…..

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Let the DNR do their job and leave the organization’s out of it.

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If organizations did not give there input to the DNR we would never have any change, it is not that I think that the DNR does not know what they are doing but they do need input from deer hunters in order to be able to do there jobs because the need to know what the majority of deer hunters want. Too many people look at groups like Bluffland and MWA as a bad thing and call them special interest groups trying to push there agenda and should leave the work to the government. I do not think special interest groups are a bad thing they are a group of people who are passionate about there cause. The government works for the public and special interest groups are a very effective way to let the government know what we want.

I am confused about a couple of things, in one of your posts you referred to WI & Iowa having one season without APR, are you in favor of one season in MN that is not during the rut like WI & Iowa? In your last post you said….

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It’s OK for the DNR to implement apr but probably not move the season out of the rut and or eliminate a season. As long as it doesn’t affect certain people then its a good idea.

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I am confused on where you stand would you like to see one season in MN or keep the two seasons we have now?

I’m for one season out of the rut. Sometimes i lump thoughts together. Apr is ok to certain people, but I’m guessing the some of the same people that hunt first season and get first cracks at the bucks don’t want one season. The less competition the better. It’s also easier for them to kill a buck during rut when they are on their feet more. So some of the people for apr don’t want other changes because that would affect them too much. They would rather control what other people shoot because, well everyone should let small bucks go. Why would they want to make it tougher on themselves? Make everyone have the same philosophy when it comes to what to pull the trigger on. And have the DNR make people do it..
I think these organizations are ok to an extent. I joined qdma to learn more about timberstand mmanagement and habitat, ways to use trail cameras and food plot/minerals. Not their opinion on what should and shouldn’t be shot. These groups just don’t really have a place in deciding DNR policy. They speak for a small % of hunters and those hunters typically go by the same general thinking. Send out fliers to all hunters or do it when they buy a license. Not saying you have to do exactly as the results indicate but then at least everyone has a voice. Anyways, I’ve enjoyed these posts. No hard feelings but I’m going to move on. I think I’ve spoke my opinion and will leave it at that.

The problem is that sometimes emotion get in the way or overrides reason. I think we all have several things in common: We all love to deer hunt, and we all agree that something needs to be done to improve deer hunting in Minnesota. It’s where what needs to be done and to what ends where we have some disagreements. Part of this is due to why each of us hunt and where each of us hunt. I have said many times I will go along with whatever the Majority of hunters in each area want. Do I believe that APR’s are what the Majority of hunters in SE MN. wanted I am not sure. I do know that those in Favor of it did a good job of showing up at meeting to make their voice heard. I just don’t think it is necessary or fair to have hunters drive many miles to attend a meeting to find out their feelings on a purposed change. Hopefully in the future they can figure out a better way of finding out the what the majority of hunters want.

Voting when buying a license is a good way of finding out.

A poll should be started to see what reasons we all here on this little site hunt for the fun of it.

I like APR and hope it continues. Maybe it isn’t able to be implemented in other parts of the state or maybe it is, I’m not sure about that part. I keep seeing the question written, ” How does letting a 1.5 yr old walk only to get shot the next year help grow big bucks.?” My answer to that would be that each year a buck lives his survival instinct is multiplying. So sure, many of the 2.5’s get shot and thats ok but I’m sure a percentage of them are living on to be 3.5 and beyond because of the free pass they may have been given with APR.

I have always wondered why many people hold out to shoot a little buck (1-2) year old if all they are interested in is meat hunting. I think there is some old old mentality that has been around for ages about “getting a buck”, no matter the size. Am I right or wrong about that?

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I have always wondered why many people hold out to shoot a little buck (1-2) year old if all they are interested in is meat hunting. I think there is some old old mentality that has been around for ages about “getting a buck”, no matter the size. Am I right or wrong about that?

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Horns are a great visual aid to show age and that age is perfect for eating.

can you expand on that a little?

Yes. I have many, many discussions a year with my Dad about not shooting those 90-100 inch 4×4’s. He always says well, if we don’t the neighbors might. My only argument is there is one guarantee, if we shoot that deer, it will never get bigger. We want trophies but breaking that old school mentality is a tough nut to crack.

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can you expand on that a little?

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Young meat better than old meat. Same with cattle and chickens.

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I keep seeing the question written, ” How does letting a 1.5 yr old walk only to get shot the next year help grow big bucks.?” My answer to that would be that each year a buck lives his survival instinct is multiplying. So sure, many of the 2.5’s get shot and thats ok but I’m sure a percentage of them are living on to be 3.5 and beyond because of the free pass they may have been given with APR.

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The statement you saws here from me was how does letting a 1.5 yr old deer walk help the overall health of the deer herd. I have no problem seeing how it helps to to grow bigger racked deer. It keeps getting posted that APR is not a trophy deer tool. but almost everyone who is in Favor of it says that the reason they are in favor of it is for just that purpose. If the reason you are for it is bigger racked buck – Just say so. there is not reason to try and hide the fact behind other poor reasons. Several people have finally came clean in this post on that fact. Thats Great. I now understand their reason for being in favor for it.

I will give my answer to this ? #1 I like the challange and thrill of deer hunting. It does not matter to me if it is a Nice Doe, a small buck or a big racked buck. #2. I like to eat Venison – Younger deer generally taste better than old / bigger one’s. #3 The area I hunt has a rather low # of deer overall. Killing a young buck takes 1 deer out of next years herd. Killing a doe takes from 2-4 deer out of the herd. This compounded over several years is a lot of deer.

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Yes. I have many, many discussions a year with my Dad about not shooting those 90-100 inch 4×4’s. He always says well, if we don’t the neighbors might. My only argument is there is one guarantee, if we shoot that deer, it will never get bigger. We want trophies but breaking that old school mentality is a tough nut to crack.

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Thats right, as long as this tradition continues things won’t change much. I think its an easy excuse is all.

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I keep seeing the question written, ” How does letting a 1.5 yr old walk only to get shot the next year help grow big bucks.?” My answer to that would be that each year a buck lives his survival instinct is multiplying. So sure, many of the 2.5’s get shot and thats ok but I’m sure a percentage of them are living on to be 3.5 and beyond because of the free pass they may have been given with APR.

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The statement you saws here from me was how does letting a 1.5 yr old deer walk help the overall health of the deer herd. I have no problem seeing how it helps to to grow bigger racked deer. It keeps getting posted that APR is not a trophy deer tool. but almost everyone who is in Favor of it says that the reason they are in favor of it is for just that purpose. If the reason you are for it is bigger racked buck – Just say so. there is not reason to try and hide the fact behind other poor reasons. Several people have finally came clean in this post on that fact. Thats Great. I now understand their reason for being in favor for it.

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I’m not hiding from anything, lol. I’m in favor of APR so people that like to hunt large rack bucks have a better chance at that just like you apparently want to shoot whatever walks by first. To each their own.

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can you expand on that a little?

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Young meat better than old meat. Same with cattle and chickens.

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If you hunt strictly for meat for the freezer I’ve got a better idea. Sell all the equipment and work a part time job with all the extra time you’d have not hunting. Financially you’d be much farther ahead. LOL

For the record I now can and have passed on small bucks. I like to think that comes with maturity….
But its is a very personal decision that I like to be my own. Right now my gripe is handing out more doe permits so guys have meat to shoot. Now there are no does. I am opening up more and more to this discussion. I am ready for a change that increases the overall herd.

Holy cow. Hell must have froze over…

If we can convert Mike to the dark side of APR/QDMA then the Vikes have a chance of winning the super bowl.

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Right now my gripe is handing out more doe permits so guys have meat to shoot. Now there are no does.

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MN did remove intensive harvest areas from most of the state if I remember right the only intensive harvest areas left are in the Twin cities area.

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For the record I now can and have passed on small bucks. I like to think that comes with maturity….
But its is a very personal decision that I like to be my own. Right now my gripe is handing out more doe permits so guys have meat to shoot. Now there are no does. I am opening up more and more to this discussion. I am ready for a change that increases the overall herd.

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I couldn’t agree more, I think 1 deer per person statewide is plenty for awhile. I’m convinced all of these areas with 2-5 deer allowed was won over by lobbyist and I can assure you that in a couple areas I’ve hunted for years and years, the deer are thined down hugely. The nice bucks are still in these areas but its getting to be a bit more slim pickings on them too

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MN did remove intensive harvest areas from most of the state if I remember right the only intensive harvest areas left are in the Twin cities area.

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Just felt the need to weigh in on this one as I’ve been doing a lot of number crunching for the MN Deer Density Initiative. There were more Intensive units in 2013 (7) than there were in 2012 (5)

Does intensive mean multiple tags? I consider allowing everyone the opportunity to shoot one doe intensive and non-survivable up north.

I’ve been absent from this forum for quite awhile and haven’t been following threads here..so please excuse me if this has been discussed here.

Is everyone aware that the total deer kill this year is about 46% less than it was in 2003? Are folks here aware of pre-fawn deer densities in various units around the state? Aware of hunters per square mile in units?

As an example, I live and hunt in unit 215. Pre-fawn densities here are just under 10 deer per square mile. Hunter densities per square mile for firearm hunting are also just under 10 (9.6 I believe). This hunter density does NOT take into account any muzzie or bow hunters. So…going into season there are an about equal number of deer hunters and adult deer per square mile. Yet, each hunter here can take two deer. It doesn’t a lot of number crunching to see that areas like this are being managed with far too liberal numbers of antlerless tags.

Are folks here aware that using the DNR’s numbers there were about 648,000 adult deer going into 2013 deer season? Aware that in 2012 (2013’s numbers not yet available that I can find) the DNR sold about 724,000 deer tags of all types? The MN DNR is in essence selling what equates to about 80,000 “fawn licenses”……