The good, the bad, the ugly…. Lesson Learned

The Good: Our group went 1 for 4 in WI this past weekend.
The Bad: I had a clean miss at a 135-140″ 10 pt at 47 yards.(didn’t have a range finder)
The Ugly: We had a Game Warden waiting for us when we arrived to our vehicles after the evenings hunt.

Basically, we didn’t know there was an exact time we had to be out of the woods and back to the truck. Which, we felt was a grey area because we had to recover a deer and look for my arrow (which took about 25 mins to find) to confirm the miss.

This is what we learned:
1. The person who shot the deer can recover the animal
2. Anyone who is deer hunting needs to be back at the vehicle no later than the time it takes to walk from your stand once legal shooting time is done. Meaning, if your walk is 20 minutes, you need to be at the vehicle 20 minutes after legal shooting time.
3. If need be, walk back to the vehicle and drop off your weapon (bow or gun) and walk back to the stand to get the rest of your belongings or help with the recovery.

The lack of information that we had about getting back to the vehicle within a certain time was an honest mistake and overall the Game Warden was an easy guy to communicate with. Plus, now we know that we could get a citation for “Hunting after Dark” under these circumstances and that’s the last thing any of us want.

Hopefully this will be a friendly reminder to everyone at IDO to know all game laws when hunting out of state.

When it was all said and done, we had an awesome weekend. I just wanted to share a little recap of the events that started out the deer hunting madness for 2013.

That is a bummer on both fronts! I would be sure to go to court to contest the citation. It may not work, but with WI participating in the Wildlife Violator Compact with 35 other states, I would certainly want this issue in a Judge’s hands and not a Warden’s.

Good luck!

I just re-read the rules regarding the WVC and it sounds like if your hunting rights are suspended/revoked in a particular state, then the other states will also revoke/suspend your rights. I’m sure you already knew this, but if not I’m sorry for inaccurately stating the previous info.

Did the warden point out specifically in the regulations where it says that you can’t be in the woods with a weapon longer than it takes for you to walk to your vehicle? I didn’t see it upon a quick glance at the regs. If it wasn’t spelled out in black and white, then it may be the warden’s interpretation of the rules. If so, I think you would have a good chance of getting it dropped by a judge.

I’d really look into this. Sounds fishy to me. I doubt you’ll be able to find anything in print. How is what you did any different than getting in your stand an hour before shooting time in the morning with your bow or gun? Are you hunting then? I think he was trying to rattle your cage and get you to admit something.

At least he didn’t give you a ticket

Wow I’m really having a rough Monday with my “reading comprehension” skills. Thanks to Super Do’s post I am now aware that you DIDN’T receive a citation, but that you were enlightening everyone to the possibility of one in a similar circumstance.

Apparently it is time to fire up a pot of coffee!

Does this law apply to private land hunting in WI too? What an odd rule. I know some the areas in WI a guy would have to walk a long way out to get rid of his bow just to turn around and walk back in. Seems REALLY silly to me.

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I think he was trying to rattle your cage and get you to admit something.

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I agree with what you are saying. He was trying to get someone to “admit” to some wrong doing in one way, shape, or form. I also think it’s only natural for anyone to get anxious when getting questioned by law enforcement about what we’re doing? We all know he was doing his job and we all have respect for guys in uniform because they ultimately look out for the best interest for everyone to enjoy the outdoors.

It’s just difficult to look at it through his eyes. I’m sure he’s done plenty of routine stops in the past and can tell right off the bat if someone or a group has something to hide. Fortunately for us, we are a group of guys that believe in doing things according to the book and we could walk away with a better understanding of the rules.

I ran into this issue a few seasons ago, except I shot a doe. Needless to say wasn’t the best shot a little low and back. The warden gave me a heck of a time trying to claim I shot it after hrs. He didn’t seem to understand I shot the deer let it be for a hr and had to track and drag the deer out of a Creek as well as field dress. I was lucky to receive only a warning. He left me with the same understanding and also chewed me out for having a head lamp on, I guess if you hunt a afternoon you can’t use a flashlight and must walk out in the dark.

Best way to avoid something like this in the future, is to take a cheap cloth zippered bow case with you and case your bow before you walk out. I’ve checked into this in the past and I’m pretty sure you can spend the whole night in your stand or ground blind as long as you are not “actively” hunting if you want to.

The best way to find out for sure is to call the wardens supervisor and have him explain the rules to you. It would be worth a few minute call.

This whole situation sounds very odd to me and if it were me, I would be contacting the DNR’s area supervior to seek clearification on what this CO told you.

While we would all like to think that COs know the law inside and out, this is not always the case. I had one clear illustration of this when a CO did not know that there was a difference between “cannot use” and “cannot possess”. They are not one in the same, but this warden thought they were until he recieved some re-training to bring him up to speed on the difference.

It sounds very much to me like this CO needs some remdial training in what legally constitutes “hunting”. Unless the law specifically states what he is infering.

By the definition he gave you, you would be committing an offense if you were to take your position in a tree stand anytime before legal shooting hours. I HIGHLY suspect this is NOT the case, but that is clearly the inverse of what he explained to you with his little “time it takes to walk to your vehicle” theory.

If you reverse his logic, than you would legally be required to leave your vehicle at a time that puts you at your stand at exactly the beginning of leagal hunting time. Any sooner and you would be hunting before legal hours according to his definition, unless of course the law provides more clearity on the morning hours vs evening.

Bottom line is that I would want to know what the real law requires.

Grouse

I just read the deer regs and I can find no where stating what the warrden said. For piece of mind you should call someone. It would not be the 1st time a warden tried to jack someone around. I agree with grouse his logic would make you illegal in the stand waiting for legal shooting time.

Mwal

agreed…..contact his supervisor and correct the behavior if needed (hopefully). I’m gonna inquire with my warden….he’s good sh*t

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. I will sit in my stand sometimes long after shooting hours because deer are still around my area and I do not want to spook them. Also if you shoot a deer and make a marginal shot why wouldn’t the warden want you to give the animal time to expire before you get out of the stand so that you can make sure not to bump it. And the headlight thing I read in some ones post is also ridiculous! So you have to walk out in the dark no matter what just because you have a weapon in your hand. And how does the warden know how long it takes you to get to your stand maybe you walk slower than he does. You need to get in touch with the supervisor to let him know this guy needs to lighten up and learn that there are some ethical hunters out there and not all are doing something illegal every time they are in the woods.

All I can say is WOW Grouse what a great explanation congrats on your writing. In the olden days if you came out after dark the bow had to be cased they got rid of that law a long time ago. I spoke with a warden about this type of situation being I would be stuck in the stand waiting for deer to leave an hour past shooting regulations. His answer was as long as the arrow was not knocked and better yet on the ground you could sit there all night long. I will be contacting our local warden tomorrow to clarify. I normally read the book front to back but haven’t this year and have never seen anything to the extent that was spoken to you. Like Grouse said then I’m guilty of hunting while walking in the dark to my stand everyday, cuff me I guess??????????????Will post back as separate post after talking with warden, as info from warden. Sure hope we are right. Can’t believe with all the hunters here no one has agreed with what you were told.

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2. Anyone who is deer hunting needs to be back at the vehicle no later than the time it takes to walk from your stand once legal shooting time is done. Meaning, if your walk is 20 minutes, you need to be at the vehicle 20 minutes after legal shooting time.

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This sounds like total BS to me, like other have said I would get a second opinon on this.

The WI DNR has online chat where you can ask questions I asked following

Michael:
Hi I have been reading the Deer regulations and would like to know if a bow has to be cased while hiking to and from your stand during non shooting hours? I know firearms do not need to be cased any longer
Lisa:
No a bow does not need to be cased either
Michael:
so it is considered unloaded as long as your arrows are in the quiver and not on the string correct?
Lisa:
Let me check the exact wording.
Lisa:
Bows may not have an arrow nocked and a crossbow may not be cocked.
Michael:
the regs mention firearms and crossbows but not bows is why I asked. Thank you for the clarification have a good evening
Lisa:
You’re welcome.

So I think you are a victim of a over reaching warden. According to this DNR rep the bow was unloaded and a case is not required.

Mwal

The only thing I could ind in the Regs is that you apparently cannot track or pursue recover after shooting hours

from 2013 regs
archery and
firearm Deer Hunting Hours -northern area
No person shall hunt deer before or after the hunting hours listed in the table on page 51.
‘Hunt’ or ‘hunting’ includes shooting, shooting at, pursuing, taking, capturing, or killing
or attempting to capture or kill any wild animal.

is pursuing tracking wounded game?

Mwal

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The only thing I could ind in the Regs is that you apparently cannot track or pursue recover after shooting hours

is pursuing tracking wounded game?

Mwal

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This may be covered in a seperate section of the regs. In MN, you may use artificial lights to track and recover game and you may also enter areas makred as “No Trespassing”, but you cannot do it while in possession of a weapon (bow, gun, etc).

I have known parties who have called COs and requested/recieved permission to dispatch a wounded animal that was tracked and found still alive after legal shooting hours. I can’t see any CO having a problem with this so long as it is known to them in advance as everyone in hunting wants to make all efforts to avoid a wounded animal not being recovered.

Grouse

When I hear stories like this, my instant reaction would be that these guys must have given the DNR a reason to be so over the top. However, given I know Ricco very well and how much he values his hunting privileges, I know this not to be the case.

A couple things come to mind. One, the out of state plates may have been a factor. However, I suspect what may have be playing a larger roll is a jealous bystander. Someone who wants to hunt this land but can’t etc… I’ve said before, deer make people crazy. More so big horns make people crazy.

I could see how reporting this CO to his superior could also back fire on this group. He knows who he put through the ringer last weekend. Not that you guys are doing anything wrong, but just what your group needs is a ticked off CO watching your every move. Now he comes walking through the woods every night right at sunset to check license etc…

My gut says I’d still report him, but thought I’d throw this out there. If he pressures you guys again, ask him to show you where in the regs this law/rule is.

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My gut says I’d still report him, but thought I’d throw this out there. If he pressures you guys again, ask him to show you where in the regs this law/rule is.

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I don’t think I would want to report him. Ricco said he was a decent guy to deal with so no reason to step on someone’s toes that could be a whole lot harder to deal with in the future. Instead, I would try and get some hard evidence from his superior or someone else of authority in the DNR. If being in the woods after dark is legal (as MWAL alluded to in his conversation with the DNR Chat Line), then I might go as far as contacting the warden and discussing this with him. It might save him some future headaches and might help out some other hunters who are not as aware of the rules as everyone here. Always helps to have a warden on your side and not against you!

Wardens have a tough job to do because there are a lot of violators out there and it is often tough to prove anything without catching them red handed. While I have met a few unpleasant ones, I think the majority are really good to deal with and in this case a warning was simply issued. It leads me to believe that like others have said, he might have just been trying to intimidate you guys a little to see if you were trying to cover something up. But nonetheless, I don’t see the value in reporting him without a little dialogue on what is the official rule.

As a side note, you said you guys went 1-4 this weekend. What did the lucky hunter get? Pics?

Add me to the BS catagory. Have the CO prove it next time in the regs. I have done it a few times as I know not all CO’s are on the same page. If I am doing nothing illegal, I have no worries applying pressure to them.

Well, the ugly part of this post has unfolded and here are the results.

The hunter who was given the citation for “Hunting after dark” plead not guilty on Monday. Since the judge needed some time to talk with the CO about the case, he pushed the decision off until Dec. 2. Well, the county offices called today and said they are dropping the “Hunting after dark” charge because of lack of evidence but, the hunter will be put on 1 year probation. He is still able to hunt but, if any other hunting violations come up during the next year, the state of WI has the right to open this file back up.

In a way it’s a compromise on both sides. Obviously, it was a BS citation handed out by the CO but, we definitely learned from it. In fact, our group made it a point to get out of the tree 5-10 mins earlier than needed each sit the rest of the season up to this point, just to be on the safe side.

My goal with this post was to educate others who happen to be hunting public ground out-of-state. Make sure to know the local game regulations and not get into a situation that easily could be avoided.

Good Hunting!

I have been following this thread. But I must have missed something. I thought that there were NOT any citations handed out?

johnl-
after reading the initial post over, I didn’t say we did or didn’t…. There were a few reasons for that.
1. I didn’t want others to rip on the CO or Warden.
2. I wanted to inform others of what could happen without getting into a ton of detail.
3. Innocent until proven guilty

I didn’t think it would be fair to poke or jab at the WI Game Warden. When it came down to it, it was a matter of 4 minutes and the judge wasn’t about to give a ticket for a guy leaving the base of the tree 4 minutes after the time table said so.

I want to be clear that this wasn’t me involved with getting the citation and I don’t want to bring up any names or handles of who it was. Just glad that it was exactly what everyone on the site thought it was. No Violation

Personally, I still think it’s BS. In my opinion, this is hunter harassment. Likely brought on by your license plate. More than a few letters would be sent to the state of WI about this CO’s welcome policy.

Now I’m confused. If the judge decided there was no violation then how was the individual put on probation? If it had been me I would not have accepted that. I don’t see how you get probation if no violation occured.

It seems very wrong to me.

To be placed on probation for not doing anything wrong does not seem like a fair deal. To me, that is like being officially told, “we know you are a poacher, but we can’t prove it, so when we catch you, we are going to nail you double”. On principle alone, I would be inclined to fight that to get it completely dropped. The way it sits, a guy could make an honest, unintentional error and get pinched – and additionally be recharged for something he did not do wrong in the first place.

I see it as a powerhungry warden. This type of incident reinforces my feelings that in general, wardens are NOT on my side and are NOT to be automatically trusted.

Another fine case of trying to make a black and white case out of a gray area. As a WI resident and trying to abide by this law for my entire hunting career…..I see so much more negative than positive in this. The law itself is to have people refrain from hunting those few extra minutes after closing time and make for an imposable fine for those that do it. The real issue if defining “Hunting”. If you don’t have an arrow nocked up, are you hunting?? As a land owner, I have done so much maintenance on fences, treestands, cattle, water tanks, bent posts, picked up debri, check traps, pull sd cards from trail cams,..and so on while walking back.
The simple answer is to put your bow in a case to clearly show or identify that your not hunting. Well, as the cost and quality of equipment has increased, so many of us have migrated to the use of hard cases. Plus, with some of the accessories, having a soft or cloth case is not realistic. Which brings us back to defining “hunting”.
At what point are you no longer in pursuit of game? For years and reinforced at the multiple hunter safety classes I have attended, wardens have made clear that when retrieving an animal after hours to not have in possession your weapon. Really??? I’ve shot bucks back in a swamp that was well over an hour walk in. So I’m expected to leave an animal, walk an hour to my truck, walk a hour back, and drag a deer for 3 more hours???? At some point, common sense needs to prevail. We have way too many of these gray laws in WI and it doesn’t do anyone (law enforcement and hunters/fisherman) any good. This also feeds into the guilty by assumption rather than fact. If a hunter is witnessed shooting a deer while walking out after hours, he/she is guilty and should pay the penalty. But I know first hand of guys that were dragging a deer out (archery) and was greeted by the accusation of hunting after hours by a warden. Clearly not right!
Also, taking this a step further. I know guys that camp while bow hunting on the land where they hunt. So thye walk from their ground blind or tree stand and not leave the property. They open the zipper and enter their tent. Couldn’t the tent be considered a form of a ground blind? Could they still be accused of hunting after hours because their bow is not cased within the tent?? Plus, I know guys that have left their bow at their tree stand so they didn’t need to carry it in the dark in the morning. Under the current law, they need to return that weapon to where ever they are exiting their hunting from. Again, way to gray of a law to be enforced in every situation.

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johnl-
after reading the initial post over, I didn’t say we did or didn’t…. There were a few reasons for that.
1. I didn’t want others to rip on the CO or Warden.
2. I wanted to inform others of what could happen without getting into a ton of detail.
3. Innocent until proven guilty

I didn’t think it would be fair to poke or jab at the WI Game Warden. When it came down to it, it was a matter of 4 minutes and the judge wasn’t about to give a ticket for a guy leaving the base of the tree 4 minutes after the time table said so.

I want to be clear that this wasn’t me involved with getting the citation and I don’t want to bring up any names or handles of who it was. Just glad that it was exactly what everyone on the site thought it was. No Violation

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Thanks for the response. This rule is a bit crazy because what if deer are out in the field and you don’t want spook them. Now I would return my arrow but the game warden wouldn’t know that. How come this rule doesn’t apply to when we enter the woods an hour prior to shooting time?

I don’t shoot before or after light but I am afraid of the grey area around this “law”

Another question guns don’t have to be cased in cars anymore correct? does that go for bows as well? I haven’t bothered to look because I always case my gun and bow.

I would love to ask a couple game wardens about this law just so I don’t fall on the wrong side.

Good luck to your friend

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I would love to ask a couple game wardens about this law just so I don’t fall on the wrong side.

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The real problem in that is the different responses that you would get. I asked the same question about going to your tree stand early. I was told to keep my bow in a case until shooting time