Deer decoy used to nab violators

I agree Gary, with 400 lbs of venison in his freezer he’s shot the biggest buck in the woods until the blood is checked. Bust em by the freezer method too. Temptation is one of those things we have to try to keep to a minimum in our lives, rack or no rack. I know theres so many deer in oaklahoma they’ve lifted the poaching laws to thin the herds and make plenty a hunter more happy. Its our natural desire to want a wall hanger but i can only see doing it right like all of us do.

Every analogy will have its shortcomings, since this is such a unique situation. I understand what you’re saying: The ultimate responsibility lies with whoever’s finger is on the trigger. I can’t think of another situation where an agency as undermanned as the DNR is trying to deal with such a widespread problem, and usually with so little help from the general public. We increasingly see this argument from a growing number of enforcement agencies as justification for unmanned speeding cameras, red-light cameras, yadda yadda yadda; fully automated revenue generation whereby ‘enforcement’ involves stamping photos and cashing checks, largely from people who’ve done no harm but are in violation of the law nonetheless.

When we were kids, my parents got sick of road hunters popping birds out of the edge where the pine grove meets the ditch right behind the house. A lot of times, us kids would be out playing in the backyard, and they were concerned that some stray lead might find it’s way into one of us, so they set up their own sting operation by propping a dead cock next to the first fencepost behind the trees with a note underneath it explaining about us kids playing in the yard. There was no ticket-writing, they just left it there for a few days and ended up making about 6 people feel like total jackasses. Such ‘educational’ campaigns I would have no problem with, but one of my greatest fears is that the agency will acquire a taste for ‘easy money’ and general enforcement will suffer at the expense of coordinated events like this sting.

I had assumed (perhaps a flawed assumption) that when they said, “areas where people shot from the road and landowners complained” that it was like Iowa, and the entire state pretty much qualified.

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Im the first to stand up for what Thomas Jefferson and John Adams spoke for,

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I’ll second that with respect to the DOI, but many of Jefferson’s other early writings called for a state of ‘constant revolution’ in which the people renewed/reestablished government through force of arms on an ever-continuing basis. His attitude was tempered somewhat by the bloodletting of the French revolution and his ascendence to the presidency.

On my way to shoot down some ditch parrots this morning, good luck to everyone in MN deer hunting and hope all is well & safe this weekend.

Every analogy will have its shortcomings, since this is such a unique situation. I understand what you’re saying: The ultimate responsibility lies with whoever’s finger is on the trigger. I can’t think of another situation where an agency as undermanned as the DNR is trying to deal with such a widespread problem, and usually with so little help from the general public. We increasingly see this argument from a growing number of enforcement agencies as justification for unmanned speeding cameras, red-light cameras, yadda yadda yadda; fully automated revenue generation whereby ‘enforcement’ involves stamping photos and cashing checks, largely from people who’ve done no harm but are in violation of the law nonetheless.

When we were kids, my parents got sick of road hunters popping birds out of the edge where the pine grove meets the ditch right behind the house. A lot of times, us kids would be out playing in the backyard, and they were concerned that some stray lead might find it’s way into one of us, so they set up their own sting operation by propping a dead cock next to the first fencepost behind the trees with a note underneath it explaining about us kids playing in the yard. There was no ticket-writing, they just left it there for a few days and ended up making about 6 people feel like total jackasses. Such ‘educational’ campaigns I would have no problem with, but one of my greatest fears is that the agency will acquire a taste for ‘easy money’ and general enforcement will suffer at the expense of coordinated events like this sting.

I had assumed (perhaps a flawed assumption) that when they said, “areas where people shot from the road and landowners complained” that it was like Iowa, and the entire state pretty much qualified.

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Im the first to stand up for what Thomas Jefferson and John Adams spoke for,

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I’ll second that with respect to the DOI, but many of Jefferson’s other early writings called for a state of ‘constant revolution’ in which the people renewed/reestablished government through force of arms on an ever-continuing basis. His attitude was tempered somewhat by the bloodletting of the French revolution and his ascendence to the presidency.

On my way to shoot down some ditch parrots this morning, good luck to everyone in MN deer hunting and hope all is well & safe this weekend.

I think that I’m going to go scouting for some decoys……get permission to hunt the land……….and have a hay-day!!!

Actually, I got a better idea……..I’m going to walk up to it, shoot it with an arrow and place a tag on it…Someone want to bring a camera? We could probably win some funny video contest somewhere????

Just kidding………

In all reality, I don’t think anyone here is supporting poaching, nor do I think that anyone is against the dnr.

However, I do feel that there are other tactics that need to be used to catch the current poachers, instead of tempting the average “Joe” into breaking the law, who normally doesn’t do wrong.

I’ll be honest with you, I know alot of people who have broken the game laws. And as Gianni stated, they aren’t getting turned in, and if they do, the DNR isn’t doing a whole lot about it. Why, I don’t know. Maybe it is because they are limited on COs? I don’t know. Will I exchange words with these people……you bet. I’m a big enough guy that I can hold my own, but I don’t challenge a guy with a gun. Nor, with some of the poaching rings that go on in my area, I’m not crossing those people either. I have respect for my own life. If you turn them in, they will eventually find out. Some of these people are of a “tuff” breed.

But, if it is true that alot of these guys getting busted are drinking and driving and have uncased guns in the vehicle……..Then it goes beyond the duty of a CO. These people are breaking more than game laws and the police need to get involved. An uncased, loaded firearm is more than breaking a game law. If the police aren’t, then they are not doing their job.

I think that I’m going to go scouting for some decoys……get permission to hunt the land……….and have a hay-day!!!

Actually, I got a better idea……..I’m going to walk up to it, shoot it with an arrow and place a tag on it…Someone want to bring a camera? We could probably win some funny video contest somewhere????

Just kidding………

In all reality, I don’t think anyone here is supporting poaching, nor do I think that anyone is against the dnr.

However, I do feel that there are other tactics that need to be used to catch the current poachers, instead of tempting the average “Joe” into breaking the law, who normally doesn’t do wrong.

I’ll be honest with you, I know alot of people who have broken the game laws. And as Gianni stated, they aren’t getting turned in, and if they do, the DNR isn’t doing a whole lot about it. Why, I don’t know. Maybe it is because they are limited on COs? I don’t know. Will I exchange words with these people……you bet. I’m a big enough guy that I can hold my own, but I don’t challenge a guy with a gun. Nor, with some of the poaching rings that go on in my area, I’m not crossing those people either. I have respect for my own life. If you turn them in, they will eventually find out. Some of these people are of a “tuff” breed.

But, if it is true that alot of these guys getting busted are drinking and driving and have uncased guns in the vehicle……..Then it goes beyond the duty of a CO. These people are breaking more than game laws and the police need to get involved. An uncased, loaded firearm is more than breaking a game law. If the police aren’t, then they are not doing their job.

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Would they have committed their crime had it not been for the actions of the DNR/LEO’s? If the answer is ‘no’ then they were induced into criminal activity.

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IMHO I would be willing to bet that most of the vehicles that stopped to shoot at the decoy were already road hunting illegally driving with guns loaded & uncased. The reason I think this it that any deer hunter knows when he sees a deer from the road by the time he stops uncases his gun, loads his gun and gets far enough off the road to shoot, that deer is going to be long gone. At the very least they are trespassing, what are the odds that they have permission to hunt the land when they see a deer from the road, pretty slim. If this kind of sting is entrapment than so be it, the plain and simple truth is that these guys were breaking the law before they ever took a shot at the decoy, not only are they breaking the law its just plain dangerous.

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It seems like you’re drawing a pretty thin line. Am I a scumbag for driving the roads pre-season and scouting?

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There is a big difference between someone pre-season scouting and someone shooting from there vehicle, and like was said earlier

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“They picked areas where hunters have in the past shot at deer from roads, or where landowners have complained about such practices.”

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Even though I do not care to road hunt myself I have no problem with the guy who does it legally, it’s the guy who shoots from his vehicle that I have a problem with, so if these so called stings bust these guys I say keep up the good work

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Would they have committed their crime had it not been for the actions of the DNR/LEO’s? If the answer is ‘no’ then they were induced into criminal activity.

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IMHO I would be willing to bet that most of the vehicles that stopped to shoot at the decoy were already road hunting illegally driving with guns loaded & uncased. The reason I think this it that any deer hunter knows when he sees a deer from the road by the time he stops uncases his gun, loads his gun and gets far enough off the road to shoot, that deer is going to be long gone. At the very least they are trespassing, what are the odds that they have permission to hunt the land when they see a deer from the road, pretty slim. If this kind of sting is entrapment than so be it, the plain and simple truth is that these guys were breaking the law before they ever took a shot at the decoy, not only are they breaking the law its just plain dangerous.

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It seems like you’re drawing a pretty thin line. Am I a scumbag for driving the roads pre-season and scouting?

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There is a big difference between someone pre-season scouting and someone shooting from there vehicle, and like was said earlier

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“They picked areas where hunters have in the past shot at deer from roads, or where landowners have complained about such practices.”

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Even though I do not care to road hunt myself I have no problem with the guy who does it legally, it’s the guy who shoots from his vehicle that I have a problem with, so if these so called stings bust these guys I say keep up the good work

Put them in jail !!!! It’s no different then going over your limit on fish, you know your in the wrong if you get caught deal with it .

Put them in jail !!!! It’s no different then going over your limit on fish, you know your in the wrong if you get caught deal with it .

In SD, you can travel with an uncased gun, I know you guys in MN think this is ludicrous, but I never went anywhere without some sort of firearm in my truck. I carried a .22 marlin all summer, and from Sept 15th to Jan 10th I had a 12 gauge in the truck. In SD, you can travel with a loaded weapon as long as there isn’t a shell in the chamber, only the magazine.

I agree, anyone who shot at this deer from the shoulder of the road was illegal, only an idiot would try to claim otherwise. Like I said earlier though, knowing exactly where this sting was setup, I would probably have taken a pop at the buck. Would I be illegal, Yup. Am I less of a human morally because I didn’t walk the 33 feet from the center of road?? I know where my shot is safely going, there isn’t a house within miles and it’s an impressive buck, yes, I would take the shot, not thinking about the 33 feet until the officer handed me the ticket. Do I feel like I should be lumped in with poachers?? HECK NO!

This sting took place on national forest ground, which is publicly accessible by us all. There is a huge problem with poaching in the Black Hills. It’s pretty easy to spotlight deer without anyone ever seeing the light due to the terrain. The sounds of shots don’t travel far either. It wasn’t too long ago when they busted some high school kids for having the most points contest. All they did was drive around, spotlight the deer, shoot them and cut off the horns. One kid shot over a 100 deer himself. Do I consider myself in the same group as this guy because I shot a little too close to the centerline of a road, NO.

If they don’t want people shooting close to roads, then ban road hunting completely. Make it so you have to be 400 yards from your vehicle and a 150 feet from any road. Setup these sting operations at night when the real crooks are out poaching. I can guarantee you this, of the 30 some tickets written, over half were guys who got a little excited by seeing a nice buck and let the adrenaline do the thinking, I bet walking 33 feet from the center of the road never even crossed their mind. Should it, maybe, but I would be more concerned about taking a safe clean kill shot. Road hunting is not illegal in SD, only shooting within 33 feet of the centerline is.

This is a great conversation and though my opinion is/may not be a popular one, I appreciate not being bashed. Again, the number one reason I visit this site way more than I should throughout the day. I may be off the mark, but this law is ridiculous. If you are a poacher, then you don’t care what the laws are anyway. They should be setting up the stings on private property or close to homes. This is where the real corrective action needs taken in my opinion.

One last comment, if I were to come across this and noticed it was a decoy, it would be worth the price of admission to slide down the hill while unloading the lever action .30/.30 into the buck, throw down my rifle and tackle the deer on the dead run with knife in hand and start field dressing it. Now that would win ya some money. You might be a redneck if…..

In SD, you can travel with an uncased gun, I know you guys in MN think this is ludicrous, but I never went anywhere without some sort of firearm in my truck. I carried a .22 marlin all summer, and from Sept 15th to Jan 10th I had a 12 gauge in the truck. In SD, you can travel with a loaded weapon as long as there isn’t a shell in the chamber, only the magazine.

I agree, anyone who shot at this deer from the shoulder of the road was illegal, only an idiot would try to claim otherwise. Like I said earlier though, knowing exactly where this sting was setup, I would probably have taken a pop at the buck. Would I be illegal, Yup. Am I less of a human morally because I didn’t walk the 33 feet from the center of road?? I know where my shot is safely going, there isn’t a house within miles and it’s an impressive buck, yes, I would take the shot, not thinking about the 33 feet until the officer handed me the ticket. Do I feel like I should be lumped in with poachers?? HECK NO!

This sting took place on national forest ground, which is publicly accessible by us all. There is a huge problem with poaching in the Black Hills. It’s pretty easy to spotlight deer without anyone ever seeing the light due to the terrain. The sounds of shots don’t travel far either. It wasn’t too long ago when they busted some high school kids for having the most points contest. All they did was drive around, spotlight the deer, shoot them and cut off the horns. One kid shot over a 100 deer himself. Do I consider myself in the same group as this guy because I shot a little too close to the centerline of a road, NO.

If they don’t want people shooting close to roads, then ban road hunting completely. Make it so you have to be 400 yards from your vehicle and a 150 feet from any road. Setup these sting operations at night when the real crooks are out poaching. I can guarantee you this, of the 30 some tickets written, over half were guys who got a little excited by seeing a nice buck and let the adrenaline do the thinking, I bet walking 33 feet from the center of the road never even crossed their mind. Should it, maybe, but I would be more concerned about taking a safe clean kill shot. Road hunting is not illegal in SD, only shooting within 33 feet of the centerline is.

This is a great conversation and though my opinion is/may not be a popular one, I appreciate not being bashed. Again, the number one reason I visit this site way more than I should throughout the day. I may be off the mark, but this law is ridiculous. If you are a poacher, then you don’t care what the laws are anyway. They should be setting up the stings on private property or close to homes. This is where the real corrective action needs taken in my opinion.

One last comment, if I were to come across this and noticed it was a decoy, it would be worth the price of admission to slide down the hill while unloading the lever action .30/.30 into the buck, throw down my rifle and tackle the deer on the dead run with knife in hand and start field dressing it. Now that would win ya some money. You might be a redneck if…..

Great discussion here guys. I never intended such an “In-Depth” discussion when I posted this thing but it has been educational and entertaining so far. Glad we can all debate without any personal attacks for one’s opinion.

Thanks guys!

Wade

Great discussion here guys. I never intended such an “In-Depth” discussion when I posted this thing but it has been educational and entertaining so far. Glad we can all debate without any personal attacks for one’s opinion.

Thanks guys!

Wade

Found some info in the Mn Hunting and Trapping Regulations Handbook.

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No person may discharge a firearm or an arrow from a bow on,over,across, or within the right-of-way of an improved public highway (including but not limited to federal, state, county, and township roadways) at a big game animal or a decoy of a big game animal that has been set out by a licensed peace officer.

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For what ever reason it does not say how far off the road you need to be? The way I read this sounds like even if you were off the road far enough (however far that is) you would still be illegal shooting a decoy

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In SD, you can travel with an uncased gun, I know you guys in MN think this is ludicrous, but I never went anywhere without some sort of firearm in my truck. I carried a .22 marlin all summer, and from Sept 15th to Jan 10th I had a 12 gauge in the truck. In SD, you can travel with a loaded weapon as long as there isn’t a shell in the chamber, only the magazine.

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I do not have a problem with guys carrying an uncased gun in states where it is legal, in MN it is not legal, my point is here is even though I do not agree with road hunting I do not look down on someone who does if he does it legally.

Found some info in the Mn Hunting and Trapping Regulations Handbook.

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No person may discharge a firearm or an arrow from a bow on,over,across, or within the right-of-way of an improved public highway (including but not limited to federal, state, county, and township roadways) at a big game animal or a decoy of a big game animal that has been set out by a licensed peace officer.

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For what ever reason it does not say how far off the road you need to be? The way I read this sounds like even if you were off the road far enough (however far that is) you would still be illegal shooting a decoy

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In SD, you can travel with an uncased gun, I know you guys in MN think this is ludicrous, but I never went anywhere without some sort of firearm in my truck. I carried a .22 marlin all summer, and from Sept 15th to Jan 10th I had a 12 gauge in the truck. In SD, you can travel with a loaded weapon as long as there isn’t a shell in the chamber, only the magazine.

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I do not have a problem with guys carrying an uncased gun in states where it is legal, in MN it is not legal, my point is here is even though I do not agree with road hunting I do not look down on someone who does if he does it legally.

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on,over,across, or within the right-of-way of an improved public highway

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This is the same as Iowa, which means that once you’re off the right of way (i.e. two feet in the ditch) you can fire away. The law in Iowa is specifically this way because the easement for the ditch is public property and you can hunt pheasants in anyone’s ditch, so long as you’re 200yds or more from an “occupied dwelling.”

Notice also that they specifically included/amended the law to include shooting at decoys. Apparently someone, at some time, won a round of “lawyerball” wherein they got out of a ticket because it wasn’t a real deer.

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on,over,across, or within the right-of-way of an improved public highway

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This is the same as Iowa, which means that once you’re off the right of way (i.e. two feet in the ditch) you can fire away. The law in Iowa is specifically this way because the easement for the ditch is public property and you can hunt pheasants in anyone’s ditch, so long as you’re 200yds or more from an “occupied dwelling.”

Notice also that they specifically included/amended the law to include shooting at decoys. Apparently someone, at some time, won a round of “lawyerball” wherein they got out of a ticket because it wasn’t a real deer.

Anyone know what Minnesota law is for shooting a pheasant in a ditch? Is it the same as Iowa? I’ll have to look this up.

Anyone know what Minnesota law is for shooting a pheasant in a ditch? Is it the same as Iowa? I’ll have to look this up.

Steve,

In looking and reading this discussion and people keep refering to the question “if they sneak up and shoot this decoy legally”.

All the decoys placed around our neck of the woods are put in problem areas where complaints have previously been made. They are always placed on private land, usually posted, right where the shots will be fired from. This way the accused has no excuse, they will be breaking a law, whether it be shooting out of a vehicle, off the road, trespassing or off a right of way. They cover all the bases.

Bob and I know these spots well and usually beep when seeing the decoy, it still cracks us up that some idiots will shoot at it, locals included. The whole countryside usually knows where its at at any given time of the fall.

Now whats surprising to us is how often when out driving by these same areas in the evening looking for deer, that live deer will run away from us at these same spots.

The DNR knows these areas well and use them to their advantage.

The locals will sometimes have a scorecard posted on the road keeping track of how many people get tagged for shooting at the decoy as they watch it unfold right down the road in front of their eyes.

Unbelievable.

Steve,

In looking and reading this discussion and people keep refering to the question “if they sneak up and shoot this decoy legally”.

All the decoys placed around our neck of the woods are put in problem areas where complaints have previously been made. They are always placed on private land, usually posted, right where the shots will be fired from. This way the accused has no excuse, they will be breaking a law, whether it be shooting out of a vehicle, off the road, trespassing or off a right of way. They cover all the bases.

Bob and I know these spots well and usually beep when seeing the decoy, it still cracks us up that some idiots will shoot at it, locals included. The whole countryside usually knows where its at at any given time of the fall.

Now whats surprising to us is how often when out driving by these same areas in the evening looking for deer, that live deer will run away from us at these same spots.

The DNR knows these areas well and use them to their advantage.

The locals will sometimes have a scorecard posted on the road keeping track of how many people get tagged for shooting at the decoy as they watch it unfold right down the road in front of their eyes.

Unbelievable.

Fun stuff Hooks!

I’ve seen this from time to time………….in areas where people are claiming poaching activity………….that the deer are super skiddish in the spot light. In my hunting area, there was about a 5 year span that a deer in the light always ran off, flag a flyin’! The local paper had a story about a group getting caught and ever since we’ve been able to shine and deer don’t seem to be nearly as spooked. In fact, when I was up a couple weekends ago, I had some within 20 yards stay bedded in open turf, look at me, away from me, turn the ears and nose very casually……………..they were quite relaxed!

Deer do learn what will kill them. I’ve even saw a deer come to a road, look both directions, and literally wait for an opening to cross through. She made it just fine without having to rush at all. But……….in spite of watching out for her own hide quite intelligently, she didn’t know how to apply it to the triplets that were with her! She signaled them to stay before she crossed. Once on the other side………”safely”………she signaled them to come on over and things got real interesting REAL FAST! Those youngin’s get confused quickly and were running circles right out in the road and cars were locking up the brakes and swerving…………..nobody hit, nobody hurt……………but it was very chaotic for about 15 seconds!!!

Fun stuff Hooks!

I’ve seen this from time to time………….in areas where people are claiming poaching activity………….that the deer are super skiddish in the spot light. In my hunting area, there was about a 5 year span that a deer in the light always ran off, flag a flyin’! The local paper had a story about a group getting caught and ever since we’ve been able to shine and deer don’t seem to be nearly as spooked. In fact, when I was up a couple weekends ago, I had some within 20 yards stay bedded in open turf, look at me, away from me, turn the ears and nose very casually……………..they were quite relaxed!

Deer do learn what will kill them. I’ve even saw a deer come to a road, look both directions, and literally wait for an opening to cross through. She made it just fine without having to rush at all. But……….in spite of watching out for her own hide quite intelligently, she didn’t know how to apply it to the triplets that were with her! She signaled them to stay before she crossed. Once on the other side………”safely”………she signaled them to come on over and things got real interesting REAL FAST! Those youngin’s get confused quickly and were running circles right out in the road and cars were locking up the brakes and swerving…………..nobody hit, nobody hurt……………but it was very chaotic for about 15 seconds!!!

Interesting about that Doe Kid. I wasn’t so lucky sunday night, I hit 2 deer on my way home late sunday evening. There were 3 crossing the road up ahead of me so I was braking for them when 2 more jumped out in front of me, I nailed the doe straight on and caught the fawn with the trailer. After clearing the road and making sure the car wasn’t leaking any fluids, I went back to get my Dad and son to come help with the deer. When I went back someone had already picked them up. That was quick!

Interesting about that Doe Kid. I wasn’t so lucky sunday night, I hit 2 deer on my way home late sunday evening. There were 3 crossing the road up ahead of me so I was braking for them when 2 more jumped out in front of me, I nailed the doe straight on and caught the fawn with the trailer. After clearing the road and making sure the car wasn’t leaking any fluids, I went back to get my Dad and son to come help with the deer. When I went back someone had already picked them up. That was quick!

They might act differently as seasons change though…………..when I watched her, the youngin’s still had spots and the average high was about 82 degrees. Certainly no bucks to “hurry them along” like we have now. Eligible does are being pursued and inelligible anything is getting chased off…………..it’s a chaotic time of year. They’re much more relaxed in the summer months.

They might act differently as seasons change though…………..when I watched her, the youngin’s still had spots and the average high was about 82 degrees. Certainly no bucks to “hurry them along” like we have now. Eligible does are being pursued and inelligible anything is getting chased off…………..it’s a chaotic time of year. They’re much more relaxed in the summer months.

I think we could draw a distinction between poaching, and discharging a fire-arm illegally. If your intention is to take the deer illegally, no permit etc, then you are a poacher. If you are two feet (eg) from a legal place to shoot and harvest the deer, then I would identify you as someone who dicharged a fire-arm illegally. Do they both qualify as violations? Yes. Should they both carry the same consequences? No. I am a recruiting manager and I interview a number of people who have had a felony(s) in the past. Do I treat all of them the same way? No way. The more serious the crime, the less likely they are to be considered for a position. Why yes, I do have a great gig!
So as with everything, there are varying degrees of
violations.
Steve

I think we could draw a distinction between poaching, and discharging a fire-arm illegally. If your intention is to take the deer illegally, no permit etc, then you are a poacher. If you are two feet (eg) from a legal place to shoot and harvest the deer, then I would identify you as someone who dicharged a fire-arm illegally. Do they both qualify as violations? Yes. Should they both carry the same consequences? No. I am a recruiting manager and I interview a number of people who have had a felony(s) in the past. Do I treat all of them the same way? No way. The more serious the crime, the less likely they are to be considered for a position. Why yes, I do have a great gig!
So as with everything, there are varying degrees of
violations.
Steve