APR or “No” Party Hunting??

Okay, I was talking with a fellow IDO’er last night and I told him that I wasn’t in favor of APR because APR “theoretically” would make it easier to shoot bigger racked bucks for everyone and thus takes away from the thrill of shooting a big one.

On the flip side, he said; “MN needs to get rid of party hunting/cross tagging”. He went on to explain that party hunting ruins chances at big deer over APR because hunters will not think twice when they know they can shoot several deer and just use other peoples tags from the group.

I myself am guilty of “party hunting”. Some of you may remember in 2007 when I shot a buck on Thanksgiving Day and my friend Andrew (who was hunting with me at the time) tagged it for me. It was my second buck that year. I like the fact that I could shoot another buck in MN “legally”. However, since last night’s conversation, my mind set has changed.

This conversation has me thinking that my friend is right about “party hunting or cross tagging”. MN needs to stop allowing people to party hunt. I have a perfect example why from this season. I won’t say any names because it’s not my place to be a conversation officer. Here’s the deal: I know of an individual that bow hunts and firearm hunts. So far this year, he has shot a buck with his bow (he used his neighbors tag), a doe with his bow (not sure who’s tag he used?), (2) 1.5 yr old bucks while firearm hunting (used tags from the group he was hunting with), and shot a button buck that he didn’t find.

I know from conversation that he did something similar last year as well. This is really starting to bug me that hunters are out shooting 5 or more deer a year and it doesn’t seem like anyone (MN DNR – MDHA) cares.

I would like to know what you would choose APR or “NO” Party Hunting, and why??

Gobbler

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I am 100% against APR’s without question. I would like to see MN get away from party hunting for the reason you mentioned. To many guys buying tags for their wife who wouldn’t know which end of the gun to use. If your wife actually hunts that’s outstanding, but if not they shouldn’t have a tag. I know guys that buy a tag for the camp cook at deer camp. He has no interest in hunting, but they get him a tag to take an extra deer. The main problem would be enforcing the no cross tagging. The honest guys would be honest and the ones that cheat anyway would still cheat and it would be tough to catch them.

Sticker,

Why are you against APR? I’m in support of it, but I always want to hear the other side of an argument. I figure we can always learn from each other.

I too think party hunting and cross tagging should be eliminated unless a certain zone has a population explosion issue that needs to be taken care of. I think the DNR would have to manage the herd on a much more stringent basis. Similar to SD, they manage by county.

I would like to see some sort of APR in Wisconsin. Even if was just a buck had to have a fork on one side. Party hunting is huge here so I can’t imagime seeing that go by the wayside. My family very rarely tag each others deer. Our rule is once your buck tag is filled you can only shoot a head mount. The reason we allow that is because it keeps us as a family in the woods together.

I don’t like APR’s because it is another government regulation we don’t need. We practice QDM on our farm because we want to shoot mature deer, but I don’t expect the neighbors to manage their farm the way I want it managed. There is a large part of the MN deer hunting population that don’t give a crap about antler size, they want venison. I don’t agree with shoving the idea of QDM down peoples throat, it should be an option not a requirement.

Secondly, I don’t think it protects the young deer as much as people think. We had 2 1.5 year old bucks taken off our property this year by someone in the hunting party who shall remain nameless and has $200 in food plots fines to pay Both of those deer would have been legal with APR’s. If I see a 6.5 year old 150″ 6 point(3×3 for you western folk)I’d have to pass on that buck and I sure wouldn’t want to. Guys say that it is rare to have 1.5 year olds that have 4 points on one side. Case and point 100% of the 1.5 year olds taken off our farm were legal with APR’s so it’s not that rare and I know of 3 more right now that I have on trail cam that would fall in that same catagory.

I personally like APR for several reasons, but I can understand the argument about more government regulation as well as certain mature “cull” bucks being illegal to shoot. I disagree with the argument that it does not protect 1.5 year olds.

I hunt a large farm in SE MN and I would venture to guess that at least 70% of the 1.5 year olds that i see and have on camera would not be legal to shoot under APR. The majority of the remaining 30% would be very difficult to tell if they were legal if you didn’t get a good look at them. Most of our neighbors drive heavily both first and second season and I think APR also forces them to get a better look at what they are shooting at rather than just flinging lead at everything that moves.

MN should go with a state wide APR AND get away from buck tags for all and doe lottery. Many other states you need to apply for a buck tag.

For to many years MN has had an “it’s brown, it’s down” mentality with an emphasis on shooting bucks. Not sure what is so great about shooting a spiker or fork horn to fill a buck tag is. If any deer will do to fill the freezer a doe will do the job just as good. Plus APR does NOT make a person a trophy hunter. A 2.5 year old deer is not a trophy. A 4.5 or 5.5 year old is a trophy. All APRs do is protect the 0.5 and 1.5 year old bucks and allow them a year of protection.

Party hunting should go away as well. We abolished party hunting in our camp years ago.

Some great points Sticker. I agree it’s not a perfect system for protecting young bucks. I also think maybe we are placing to much emphasis on QDM. I’m sure there are many who don’t think quite like we do when it comes to trophy/quality management. Especially the folks who hunt public land only.

Does anyone know of any states who have statewide APR? If so, for how long and what has the trend been for shooting “better” more mature deer?

I do not know of any state that has a statewide APR. But I can tell you in a state like Iowa, the common hunter has a vastly different mentality when it comes to the harvesting of game compared to the “it’s brown, it’s down” mentality of Minnesota.

Perhaps a general hunter education and attitude adjust is a better option than laws and regs. Of course both education and slot limits have really made fishing unbelievable compared to years past.

No doubt. I’d even argue that mentality is being eliminated in SD. Sure there are small pockets of it and always will be. However, having to draw for a buck and no cross tagging sure makes many think before they pull the trigger. I can’t even show half the bucks I’ve received via text/email.

I am all for party hunting, however; in our camp if you are helping fill doe tags go for it, we don’t shoot bucks for others to tag unless it’s during a drive where it’s said if a buck comes shoot it.

I am not saying a 4.5 or 5.5 year old deer isn’t a trophy but a true trophy, isn’t it in the eye of the hunter and what he or she views as a trophy? Not everyone can control the whole new age QDM theroy and if it’s less than 150″ deer don’t shoot…..

I would be for a state wide system that you have to apply each season for a tag/bonus tags and select antler or antlerless to take with a 1st or 2nd choice…the APR I am all for it, but there are plenty of “younger deer” with enough points to be shot still….

When you guy’s are using the term no cross tagging Im assuming you are referring to no cross tagging on bucks only and that cross tagging for does is ok correct ???

mat03z-
I should’ve been a little more clear. No cross tagging allowed for any deer. It doesn’t matter what the sex is.

Basically, if you have a license for a buck or doe with your name on it, you can shoot it. If you don’t have a license with your name on it, you are done hunting for the season.

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mat03z-
I should’ve been a little more clear. No cross tagging allowed for any deer. It doesn’t matter what the sex is.

Basically, if you have a license for a buck or doe with your name on it, you can shoot it. If you don’t have a license with your name on it, you are done hunting for the season.

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Those mirror my thoughts.

I just do not get it. Why do some believe that Others should be forced to change their idea of a fun / successful hunt ( spending time with friends/family and harvesting a animal they enjoy eating ) so that YOU can have a better chance to enjoy what YOU think is a more successful hunt ( A Buck with a large rack )If what you are truely after ( a big racked buck ) would it not make more sense to protect the 4 and 5 year old deer that are in that 150 – 190 class. These deer are already know GREAT genetic breader deer – Way better than the unknown genetics of a 1.5 or 2.5 year old deer. I wounder what some some of you BIG RACK hunters would think if others made a push for this to be the new APR – I bet there would sure be alot of you real upset about that even thou it makes far more sense that the current APR plan. As I have stated in other post on APR. If they can get Clear data that the MAJORITY of Deer hunters are in favor of some form of APR then I will gladly go along with the plan. I just really don’t think that is the case. I don’t think a hunter should have to go to a meeting or fill out a online survey to get a CLEAR idea of what DEER hunters think – It is simple. Make it a ? at the point of sale on all deer license – They have used this method on other issues in the past. Just my .02 worth

I would like to see APR enforced in my area. Im not going to go on a rant about it because everyone that has stated their reasons mirrors mine. I would also like to see a change in the firearm season. With that being said, i think it should reflect Iowa’s or WI’s season. Being later in the year allows more breeding to occur IMO. If the DNR is concerned about MN producing bigger bucks, something ie later firearm season, APR, no party hunting, etc has to be done

Im fine with party hunting. We have been shooting deer for each other in camps for ever. With out party hunting people would be leaving as soon as they shot their deer and hunting was done for them. Sounds like a great way to destroy some traditions of deer camp. Deer hunting is all ready over to fast.

Do you guys not think the DNR has figured in these people that fill tags for others? They may just be more concerned about the overall number of deer harvested than who shot what. Just because a few people bend the rules I dont think they need to be changed for the rest of us.

Not sure if Im a big fan of APR either. Not to worried about shooting big horns.

I would choose to eliminate party hunting.
I always am alone when I hunt. I seek the solidarity of bowhunting as opposed to the comradery of rifle hunting. Nothing against “deer camp”, it just isn’t how I have hunted in the past 7 years.

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I would choose to eliminate party hunting.
I always am alone when I hunt. I seek the solidarity of bowhunting as opposed to the comradery of rifle hunting. Nothing against “deer camp”, it just isn’t how I have hunted in the past 7 years.

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If you don’t do it, thats great – but don’t force others to follow your lead. If you have nothing against deer camp – don’t kill it for others.

We have an 6-8 person extended family deer hunt with people coming from distances and taking vacation in order to be here. This year, a cousin from out of state shot a buck on opening weekend. It would have sucked for him to be forced to quit that day…… Party hunting has been the source of TONS of great family and friend traditions in this area. Don’t force that to die just for the greed of a special interest group that desires big racked bucks.

T

I believe party hunting for does only is the way to go. The true trophy hunters do not do anything to reduce herd sizes.This is why party hunting and cross tagging for does needs to continue as long as the licencee is afield while the hunting is occuring. In other words Im not in agreement with someone buying their wife a tag (If she’s a non hunter) just to kill more deer. Which by the way is illegal.All you guys that keep saying balance the herd ,how would that happen if we all were trophy hunters ?

Jury is still out for me on APR.Personally I have seen more bigger bucks before it was in place but it could be luck or in the right place etc.I think a landowner should shoot whatever they want on there own land and am leaning towards a QDM. Also I think an elderly/senior person 70+?? should have no resrictions. Having grown up in Iowa I think an easier solution to APR as mentioned above would be to move the season back 2-3 weeks in the southern half of the state.You would have bigger bucks and let everyone shoot whatever they want. My .02

I think APR is complete elitist BS. Why should the rest of us bow down to a minortiy group of hunters hell bent on collecting big antlers strictly for their ego?! Why dont they target mature does if its all about the challenge?

And Im sick of hearing of how everyone should shoot a doe if they want meat. That mentality has done more to hurt the herds in Wi and Mn then anything in the history of deer hunting. Elitists and entitement to shoot something(s) every year will take us further down this path.

When I want good pheasant or grouse hunting I go to where they are. Same with fishing. If people want big antlers so bad then go to where they are instead of trying to make them available everywhere so its EASIER to get your trophy…

I am also against APR. I think it should be personal choice on what is considered a harvestable buck. I have a lot of friends into QDM and they end up being very elitist and snobish. You are not a man unless you get the monster buck. Also they get to hunt a lot of private land they have exclusively tied up. If they want to practice QDM fine it should not be mandated to the everyone. I have very limited deer hunting time I do not plant food plots which is baiting anyway you look at it have trail cams etc. If others want to do that I am not against it at all just to do not tell me that if I shoot a fork horn I am a loser etc or it is less of an animal. To me it was a challenge to see and harvest and the meat is greatly appreciated. Just my opinion.

Mwal

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We have an 6-8 person extended family deer hunt with people coming from distances and taking vacation in order to be here. This year, a cousin from out of state shot a buck on opening weekend. It would have sucked for him to be forced to quit that day…… Party hunting has been the source of TONS of great family and friend traditions in this area. Don’t force that to die just for the greed of a special interest group that desires big racked bucks.

T

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Playing devils advocate here. A person who has tagged out can’t have the same amount of fun and create memories as someone with a tag in their pocket? The reason I disagree with this whole heartedly has recently changed for me. Here is why… I basically can’t get a rifle tag in my home county in SD. I had been saying for a few years I hate that I can’t go share time in the stand with my Dad because I won’t have a tag. Well, I know I was missing the whole point of hanging out with Dad. Thursday AM will be the first time Dad and I have hunted together in far too long and I’m pumped. I could care less if I have a tag. I will be armed with a camera.

Hey Suzuki, don’t you forget I’m an elite predator and us elitist share our venison with you peasants. Kidding buddy! I do truly appreciate your side of the fence. I disagree, but that’s OK too.

In my opinion, you need to find better friends if they are not happy with any harvest you make. I know of a few guys just like you are talking about and I no longer associate with them. Just because I would like to see a more mature and healthy deer herd doesn’t make me look down on anyone or any successful harvest.

We don’t need any more dang regulations in MN. APR or otherwise!

As a practical reality, eliminating party hunting would have zero impact because the whack-n-stack camps would simply carry on doing it. It would be unenforceable.

Also, as hunters and property owners, I feel that we have the right to decided what deer we shoot on our land. Generally, I’m against shooting immature bucks, but using this very year as an example, we decided to leave the does alone because we were not satisfied with the overall numbers of deer.

Normally, we hunt for big bucks and then if we want one for the freezer late in the season, we may whack a doe. This year we knew we wanted one for the freezer, but we saw several poorly-outfitted immature bucks and we decided to go that direction and leave the does as breeding stock.

The DNR needs to focus its attention so we don’t have a charlie foxtrot like the Chedderheads have with massive overkill due to mismanagement and lack of attention. Manage the big picture and the horns will be there for those who want to shoot them. Fail miserably like the nobody will be shooting much of anything.

Grouse

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It is simple. Make it a ? at the point of sale on all deer license – They have used this method on other issues in the past. Just my .02 worth

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I too would love to see this question asked. I gotta believe most deer hunters in Mn and Wi are 1-3 day type hunters who pull out there rifle once a year. They likely aren’t the guys who visit IDOhunting daily/weekly like us. I doubt many of them have much passion at all when it comes to deer hunting. We are a very special group who love to talk hunting year round. My gut tells me APR is not something a majority of hunters would support.

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[Playing devils advocate here. A person who has tagged out can’t have the same amount of fun and create memories as someone with a tag in their pocket? The reason I disagree with this whole heartedly has recently changed for me. Here is why… I basically can’t get a rifle tag in my home county in SD. I had been saying for a few years I hate that I can’t go share time in the stand with my Dad because I won’t have a tag. Well, I know I was missing the whole point of hanging out with Dad. Thursday AM will be the first time Dad and I have hunted together in far too long and I’m pumped. I could care less if I have a tag. I will be armed with a camera.

Hey Suzuki, don’t you forget I’m an elite predator and us elitist share our venison with you peasants. Kidding buddy! I do truly appreciate your side of the fence. I disagree, but that’s OK too.

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Mn is NOT SD, or Iowa, or any other state….. We are unique and offer a different type of option. I’d hate to see that option vanish.

If my cousin could not legally shoot another deer after he filled his one and only tag(which was a buck-only tag) – there is no way in heck he would have continued hunting. He sure as heck wouldnt have went out and sat in a stand without a rifle…..

T

I am ok with the APR, but there is a serious problem for those opposed to party hunting for does. As a landowner/cropper, deer damage to crops and fences cost us thousands of dollars every year. When our party comes, we plan on shooting lots of deer; the more does the better. Taking that away would be taking money out of our pockets.

Lots of good points on both sides of the arguement. I personally choose to not to shoot young bucks. we have plenty of yearling 8 pointers that would be “legal” in Minnesota, but I’d pass them regardless of “points”. They need a couple years IMHO.

I missed an opportunity at a very nice buck this weekend because I took the time to positively verify him as a shooter. If I wouild have just identified him as a buck and then shot, he’d be dead. I voluntarily chose to make sure he was a mature deer. That extra time cost me the only shot opportunity. I’m dissapointed that I didn’t get him, but would be more disapointed with myself if I shot an immature buck.

Our group practices group bagging on does only. Last year my daughter filled 6 doe tags. She was the one in the right spot at the right time. We have great memories of that week. Eliminating group bagging would have taken that memory away. I personally don’t care who shoots my doe. I hunt for a mature bck and to see the faces of my children as they show me the deer they shot. I get more satisfaction from their success than from my own.

Maybe skip the APR for new hunters or kids under 18. All of my kids shot yearling bucks for their first antlered kills and to me, those are the best trophies we have, because I remember how we all felt on those days. And ulitimately, thats what we hunt for!