Let antler-point experiment play out

  • Steve Plantz
    SE MN
    Posts: 12240
    #202435

    This artical was writen by Eric Atherton, Eric is an editorial writer for the Post-Bulletin and an avid outdoorsman. He can be reached at [email protected]

    Let antler-point experiment play out

    In my e-mail box on Wednesday, I received a petition asking me to support the effort to overturn antler-point restrictions in Zone 3 and to once again make it legal for one hunter to shoot multiple bucks, then “cross-tag” them with his buddies’ tags.

    Below is a portion of the petition’s wording. And, as the great newspaper humorist Dave Barry used to say: I’m not making this up.

    “This rule promotes hunting deer for their antlers exclusively; we feel this is demeaning to the animals and the sport! By doing this the DNR has made this sport no better than killing an elephant for its tusks, a rhino for its horn, or a bear for its gall! These are considered illegal and despicable acts the world over!”

    Wow. I didn’t know PETA had taken a side on the antler-point rules.

    Or consider this interesting claim: “For proper identification to take place under this rule, the animal needs to feel unthreatened and unaware it is being hunted. The only legal hunting method that would accomplish this is to ambush the deer, most likely from an elevated stand. Hunting from elevated stands result in over half of all hunting accidents.”

    Logically, I have no choice but to conclude that those who oppose antler point restrictions — including the Minnesota Deer Hunters Association — are now opposed to “ambushing” deer from an elevated position. I expect Rep. Steve Drazkowski to introduce a tree stand ban at his earliest convenience.

    Frankly, after I got done laughing at the absurdity of this document, I became rather depressed. We were supposed to be in a three-year window when the arguments could stop and the results would be allowed to speak for themselves. But on Wednesday, hunters, legislators and DNR officials once again had to gather in Winona to rehash the same old arguments.

    I heartily endorse the ban on cross-tagging. One buck is enough for anyone. I have mixed feelings about the APRs, but the science seems solid, and in other states they’ve worked well. As a guy who’s seen one mature buck during the last six hunting seasons (five yards outside my bow range), I’m ready to try something new.

    Which brings me to back Wednesday’s meeting. I’d like to respond to some of the claims I heard in Winona.

    • To those who said last year was the worst year of hunting they’ve ever had, I say that this year might be their best, with more 10- and 12-point bucks in southeastern Minnesota than at any time in the past 50 years — and 2012 could be absolutely eye-popping.

    • To the hunters who say that more big bucks will mean decreased access for the average hunter, I’d say, “What access?” Many landowners are trying to manage their own deer right now, so the chance of knocking on a door and obtaining permission to hunt private land isn’t just remote — it’s pretty much non-existent. I know that from personal experience. If you don’t own land or have close friends or relatives who do, you spend your time on public land or hope you get drawn for a state park hunt.

    • To the Minnesota Deer Hunters Association, which says the new rules are a threat to family hunting traditions, I’d point out that hunters up to age 17 can still shoot any deer they see. Seems like this would encourage party hunters to include a lot more young hunters in their group, and to post them in places where they’re likely to see a lot of deer and get a lot of opportunity. What’s the downside? Would the adults be green with envy that the kids are allowed to shoot a forkhorn?

    • To the hunter who suggested that the APRs be enforced only on state-owned land, I’d point out that although land can be owned, wildlife cannot. The deer in your woodlot belong to no one — and to everyone.

    • To those who say “Educate, don’t regulate,” I’d ask if they meant to say “Legislate, don’t regulate.” After all, when you ask a legislator to hamstring the DNR, that’s exactly what you’re doing.

    • To everyone who’s threatened to quit hunting deer if you don’t get your way, I’d suggest that there are plenty of pawn shops that would buy your guns. And if you’re lucky, those guns will still be there for you to buy back next fall after you see that big buck on the back 40.

    • To Rep. Steve Drazkowski, who seems to believe there was a sub-legal buck left to rot behind every tree in Zone 3 last year, I’d ask if he bothered to confirm that claim with the DNR before he became a crusader against change. Does he have photos of this alleged wanton waste? Or perhaps some trail-cam pictures of those 140-inch six-pointers that we keep hearing about?

    • And finally, to everyone who seems so dead-set on preventing this three-year experiment from running its course, I’d simply ask this: What are you afraid of? That it might actually work?

    gmartell
    LaCrosse, WI
    Posts: 70
    #105518

    I could only wish WI would TRY something like ARs or APRs. But like MN the hunters in this state will always having a negative opinion of something before the results can appear.

    thegun
    mn
    Posts: 1009
    #105519

    APR’s

    Im nto against or really for them! To me It makes no difference!

    They have been used in other states for years and They have proven to increase mature deer in the herd! This sounds great!

    But the down fall is you are managing Not for Trophy deer just older deer! It has been proven there will be more mature deer but as the years go on the quality will quickly drop off! Yes you will see allot of 140″ deer some 150’s But a boon-er will be even more rare than it is now!

    What you ask Y?? well your deer with the best genetics will be taken out of the herd at 1 1/2 years of age cuz they will make the grade!

    all in all it is more than likely a good idea for the avid hunter! But there are a lot of hunters who just enjoy shooting a buck! Horn size to them dont matter They werent going to spend the money to put it on the wall no matter the size! and to me If shooting a spike buck makes your season then good for you! for those who look down on such hunters! SHAME ON YOU! More than likely your not the hunter you think you are!

    If you dont believe me about the quality dropping off you can prove this just by looking at P&Y and B&C entries! P&Y increases considerably! then B&C increases slightly for a short time and then drops to near ZERO!! Look at the states that have Had APR’s in place for a number of years! Its the same for all of them!

    john_steinhauer
    p4
    Posts: 2998
    #105521

    Thanks for posting that Steve I hope they keep the APR going.

    scottb.
    Southeast, MN
    Posts: 1014
    #105531

    Thanks for posting Steve.

    Quote:


    If you dont believe me about the quality dropping off you can prove this just by looking at P&Y and B&C entries! P&Y increases considerably! then B&C increases slightly for a short time and then drops to near ZERO!! Look at the states that have Had APR’s in place for a number of years! Its the same for all of them!


    I absolutely disagree with this statement. Do you have practical real life experience in these other states? I am not going to get in an argument here but what you are saying is false. Also, a majority of people do not enter their deer in record books. Although many people score their deer not that many pay to have it done officially or pay to have their name in a book. In fact, most do NOT want people to know because it only increases pressure on their area’s.

    gobbler
    Central, MN
    Posts: 1110
    #105551

    everyone has good points (get it points) haha

    Okay, seriously. I was fortunate enough to hunt in Buffalo County the last 2 years and I have personally seen B&C caliber bucks. And I know that guys in BC are passing on 140-160″ deer knowing that they will be 180″ or better in a year or 2. It is amazing what hunters are willing to do over there to see deer mature to their full potential.

    I’m not saying the hunter who passes a 140-160″ is a better hunter. I’m just saying, it’s a lot of fun hunting in an area where you can see (4-6) bucks in the 140-180″ range on any given night. jmho

    walleyebuster5
    Central MN
    Posts: 3916
    #105554

    That would be alotta fun to sit through Ricco..

    What do you mean when you say “It is amazing what hunters are willing to do over there to see deer mature to their full potential.”

    Are you saying they pass on 150s or they feed them roids?

    outdoorsman
    Posts: 7
    #105559

    I find it odd that the zone experimenting with the APR is the exact same zone where sharp shooters were indiscriminately blasting every deer within sight.

    Seems to me it might throw off the results of the APR study just a bit.

    kooty
    Keymaster
    1 hour 15 mins to the Pond
    Posts: 18101
    #105560

    Interesting point Ricco. To the best of my knowledge, QDM has been in place in Buffalo County for many, many years(along with many other areas of the country, Texas). Playing devils advocate to the point being made above, wouldn’t the quality of these bucks be very reduced using the theory the older the deer the less quality?

    Now, maybe Buffalo County is unique in the fact it offers great safety for the deer along with excellent nutrition etc…

    I am in support of APR simply because I want to see the results. I can’t see how it’s a detriment to try it for 4-5 years. Of course, I still can’t convince my dad to let that 2.5 year old 8 point to walk if all he wants is the meat.

    gobbler
    Central, MN
    Posts: 1110
    #105565

    WB5-
    Amazing means: Hunters pass up 150″ bucks in BC like guys pass up 1.5-2.5 yr olds around the Central MN area.

    I will be the 1st to admit, there were a lot of bucks that I personally passed in BC that wouldn’t get the “free pass” where I hunt in MN. Including a 4.5 yr old 8 pt in the 130-135″ range at 5 yards on Oct. 29th.

    Once QDM takes place(2-3 years), there is no looking back. There will (without a doubt) be more and BIGGER Bucks in the area. I don’t know how that can be a bad thing?

    dennisdalan
    St Cloud, MN
    Posts: 974
    #105568

    Quote:


    I don’t know how that can be a bad thing?


    I am all for QDM and APR, nobody likes a big rack more than me, but I can guarantee that with big racks comes “Pay to Play”! Buffalo County is a prime example. If you don’t own land or know someone who does, you are paying to hunt Buffalo County.

    kooty
    Keymaster
    1 hour 15 mins to the Pond
    Posts: 18101
    #105569

    That is a great point Dennis, one I wouldn’t consider to be a plus for the advocates of APR. I do wonder how easy it is to get permission now days in this zone?? SE Mn has been known for big deer for years so I imagine it’s not super easy to gain access to private ground.

    dennisdalan
    St Cloud, MN
    Posts: 974
    #105570

    I’ve lived in MN for almost 17 yrs. Can’t even imagine how many doors I have knocked on trying to get permission to bow hunt. Out of those 17 years, I have only been able to secure 3 pieces of property to hunt on. The only reason I received permision is because someone I know got me permission. I can only imagine what it would be like if there were 140-150″ deer hiding behind every tree…

    Steve Plantz
    SE MN
    Posts: 12240
    #105579

    Quote:


    I find it odd that the zone experimenting with the APR is the exact same zone where sharp shooters were indiscriminately blasting every deer within sight.

    Seems to me it might throw off the results of the APR study just a bit.


    It will affect that area, however that area is a 10 mile radius, all of zone 3 is a very large area it will not affect all of zone 3. I am not saying I agree with what was done in that area I am just saying…………

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