Antler point restriction

In that area, it became extremely difficult to shoot a mature buck because of the hunting pressure and almost everyone was shooting small bucks. Never once did I complain about it. I just found another area that was better suited for me for my personal reasons of killing a big buck. I also started to hunt with others who had similar beliefs as me.

Your comments are well thought out Brad and honest. The part that is difficult for some of us hunters is we don’t have an option of “finding another area to hunt.”

Everywhere I hunt around here is accessable to many hunters or in DQM and I can’t hunt it. Some of us don’t have the funds to lease or buy so we have NO choice but hunt where we can which every year gets smaller because people who have the funds are buying and posting “No Hunting” it or putting up DQM.

I am down to pretty much one farm here and he has been made plenty of offers from guys from the cities but he told me that isn’t gonna happen. So as long as he doesn’t sell I will keep hunting and if he does I believe I will be going into retirement.

I had another farm that was very productive for me because the farmer would let anyone hunt but no 4 wheelers, which was great for me because I don’t own one any way. I had a special honey hole with a perfect funnel for buck travel during the rut that was to far from the road for most hunters to walk. Well two years ago I had to go see this farmer and let him know someone had made a path 8 yards wide thru his corn field in order for this guy (whoever he was)could have a clear path to the woods surrounded by this huge corn field!

The farmer was not happy and told me he would be seriously consider shutting down hunting to everyone and frankly I wouldn’t blame him one bit.

Well he didn’t do it but he asked that anyone that hunted it call and leave vehicle info with him in case something like this would happen again. We know who ever did this more than likely wasn’t asking permission in the first place. I called him and got permission last year and hunted my honey hole but didn’t have much success probably because his neighbor was taking his 4 wheeler back and hunting the same area. After that I decided I wasn’t gonna hunt there this year, but I did decide I should go get one permanent stand out of there. I was a little shocked to find it still in the tree, but I was more shocked to find out someone had taken all the tree steps and the rope but left the tree stand up there 20 feet! You tell me, because I don’t get it???

Sorry for the long rant but this is part of hunting in my area! You guys are welcome anytime!

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I find it quite ironic that Mr. Sieve, a staunch advocate from Houston County MN for changes in our current regulations to create a more mature male deer herd in Southern Minnesota, gave a presentation to the Wabasha County Commissioners on the economic benefits of deer hunting and the benefits of promoting southern Minnesota as an outstate hunter destination. Now, quite a few of us from Wabasha County, when the new regulations were put in place, roundtabled the reasons why certain individuals / groups were pushing for this. All of us came to an agreement that a select few see an individual economic gain from promotion of this concept. Currently Minnesota is 47th for out of state hunters coming here for deer hunting. We believe a select group has a long term strategy to take advantage of a more mature deer herd to promote a pay-for-hunting atmosphere like so many states already have – Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa, etc.

So,what if we are right?? If we are right, to any degree, what affect will it have on the average hunter that has hunted friendly landowners property over the years? It is pretty simple. Land that was once hunted by friends, family members, etc. will be locked up by the leases that these indviduals / companies, whom see a financial gain for themselves on a client based pay to hunt format.

Can you blame the farmers to lease their land?? Absolutely not. However, a lot of us land owners, etc. will be attending the Wabasha County Commissioners Meetings to give our view points, and if needed, a petition, to NOT have Wabasha County procede with a Deer Hunting Economic Plan that has been presented by Mr. Sieve to Wabasha County.

So, does anybody believe the above could or could not happen, or is / is not being studied? Feel free to contact me for Wabasha County Commissioners transcripts.

Jim Siewert

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Mr. Sieve does have a good point, even if not everyone agrees on how to get there. SE MN (along with SW WI) has the best potential for growing big bucks. If we start to realize that potential, it should mean big bucks (pun intended) to the state of MN. This $ doesn’t come just from pay-per-hunt operations. It would pull average hunters like myself, from other nearby states as well. And with the current state of Minnesota’s economy, I don’t think we should just write off this huge chance at more revenue. SE MN has a huge chance to find another niche in the economy…shame on us if we shoot it down before it has a chance to work.

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not to mention the fact this survey was based on Zone 3 participants.

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Seeing as the new laws only affect zone 3 why would you base it on any other zone?

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With more than 475,000 deer hunters hunting in 2009 I’d like to hear from more than the 3293 who were will sampled in that study. If I read correct over 90% of those hunted on their private land. They have the ability to conduct a survey at the point of sale on each deer license sold – if they want to find out a true voice of the hunter i say they survey all deer hunters. If the majority are for it ( I don’t think they will be )I’m all for it.

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This was not a sample survey it was posted on the MN DNR website and anyone on the world wide web could have taken the survey.

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The Top of page 1 reads as follows ” the Survey was MAILED to 6000 Deer hunters 3293 completed the survey ”

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Yes that is correct, but that same survey was also available on the MN DNR website as a matter of fact I posted that link here last year and encouraged all deer hunters to take the survey.

The next thing hunters in se mn is going to have to worry about is in the next three years when we do have a constant flow of big deer. Witch im not saying we arnt real fortunate with what we have right now. But ive been hunting about 8 dif properties since i was 12 years old. Two being family farms, And it wasnt unit this year some of the old farmers that own property i hunt had outfitters from illinois, and iowa call and also stop in to their place and offer them big bucks to lease their property for the year to hunt. lucky for me and my old man that grew up in the area my dads good freinds with all the farmers in the area. And lucky that the old farmers are hardest deal with cause they havent had money most their life and at that age its just not as important to them as this younger generation. So needless to say they got showed to the end of the drive way. Its kind of like ted nuggent and pat reeves hunting se mn this year after that world record. i like ted nuggent and all but i sure hope its not them two that get it. I say that because of the big bucks they payed to get a chance at it. I hope the guy with the property next to him that works 5 to 6 days a week in a factory to make ends meet for his family puts that pig on the ground when it jumps the fence.

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I would love to see a statewide vote put this to rest instead of tailor making the voting boundries around a predisposed area where the outcome is certain.

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Anyone in the state or out of the state for that matter was able to vote on this in the 2009 DNR survey and the majority said they wanted the antler point restriction.

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Yea and look who showed up.
“Archers were over-represented in the online and
public meeting samples”

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If it true that the majority of hunters are against APR then where are they? Why did they not take the survey or show up to the public meetings?

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If you think you are a better person because you hunt trophy bucks then the hunter who “hunts”, then I rate you within the same group of self-centered, pompous, inglorious few who call themselves muskie hunters.

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Gary I hope I do not come off that way, you and I disagree on this topic but that is OK what a boring world this would be if we all thought the same way. It is no secret that I am all for APR but I do not think any less of anyone that disagrees with me.

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If you think you are a better person because you hunt trophy bucks then the hunter who “hunts”, then I rate you within the same group of self-centered, pompous, inglorious few who call themselves muskie hunters.

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Gary I hope I do not come off that way, you and I disagree on this topic but that is OK what a boring world this would be if we all thought the same way. It is no secret that I am all for APR but I do not think any less of anyone that disagrees with me.

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Gary I don’t personally know you or Steve, but I think you know as well as I do that is not Steve, or Steve’s mentality. I also am for the APR…that said, my wife and father have both shot 1.5 year old bucks this fall, because it is the good old USA, and they have that right, not only were they excited I was also very excited for them.

I tore up my knee pretty badly, and had surgery on it this morning. I’d like to really comment on this thread, but can’t sit at the computer long enough to put my thoughts to justice. Let me just say Brad summed it up pretty well. When it comes to the APR we differ a little on our views, but in the end there has to be 2 sides to everything to keep everything on an even keel. Can you imagine if we had a 100 Democrats in the house !!!

You guys keep this thread clean, we can agree to disagree without any personal attacks, and kee[p this thread alive. I am guessing it is the highest “informational” post count of any we have had on the forum. With this kind of information exchange, there are a lot people learning good stuff, and being “forced” to consider the other side, whichever that may be.

Besides the selfish part of me wants this thread to be here another day or two so I can out my views

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Gary I don’t personally know you or Steve, but I think you know as well as I do that is not Steve, or Steve’s mentality.

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Gary and I do know each other and we have had this topic come up more than once and we have agreed to disagree.
I know that Gary was not directing his reply directly to me alone.

Very well put Les, I wish you a speedy recovery!

Sounds like alot of people think Antler restrictions will tie up land in leases, that handicapped and elderly hunts will go away and that only the elite will be able to afford to hunt. I would agree with this, in certain areas. I do agree, 1 zone practicing QDM and antler restrictions, will make that zone the “desireable” one… in about 2 years. That’s why I say, put it on a level playing field, practice it everywhere.

Opportunities to hunt, have been diminishing since I was a kid… it is called change, I can’t blame it on QDM. I too am trying to maximize my time in the field, by utilizing QDM. It’s my right on my land and it’s also my right to voice my beliefs and wants to my legislature, just as it is yours. That’s what is being said about surveys…. it’s like not voting. Who can you blame ???

Guys, I’m not attacking or name calling anyone here. Especially Steve! Yep, we agree to disagree. As I said, the APR works for me and my personal goals.
But I have a couple of problems with it in general.
1 being that the majority of our 2.5 year old bucks are “basket-rack-8pt’rs. They are legal, and their little 10 inch or 12 inch spreads are not protected.
2 is that for the 4th year in a row, we’ve come across inferior bucks. This being the 4th year. This buck being a 16″ + spread, no brow tines, and only 2 pts on one side and 3 on the other. He was breeding 2 does and I couldn’t stop him…..
So, in our area, yes the apr will help yearlings, but not buck fawns.

Last question I have for the private property owners practicing QDM…..how much money to trophy hunt your land, I’ll swap turkey hunting!!! Send me a PM.

I see both sides of APR management…the results are out there to be seen. But so are inferior genetics. Tough to manage that, both in wild life and any other species, including we ‘homo sapian’….

That being said, the 3×3 6 pointer I’ve had to pass on all season met the front of my truck last Friday night to the tune of about 1200$’s Now that’s what really pissed me off.

Genetics and buck culling is like playing russian roulette. Everything I have ever read about buck culling, is don’t waste your time. First off, a bucks genetics are MORE influenced by the doe, more so than the buck. Good luck culling inferior does. Second, a bucks genetics are determined at conception… nobody is there to “see” what his genetics will be, but from that minute forward, his rack can be altered by injury, diet, stress and even the weather. If a deer is a lifetime 6 pointer, he may have been injured or he may just have bad genes, nobody really knows and he may even breed a monster doe that throws nothing but 24″ wide 12 pointers !!!

way to solve the problem, every 4 years buck season, other three one doe. wouldn’t that be great. new records would be set.

cant wait to see whats in store the next two year guys. I bet the farm bad talk on 4 point restriction will really slow. Im sure glad i hunt the 300 and got land locked up cause the rest of the states hunters are going to wish they werent 4 years behind us. have fun looking at monster bucks and alot of them taken. And haveing to wait a few year. cause i honestly beleive the next two years will show. And the rest of the state will get on bored. And then finally we wont have to look and hear every year buffalo county this and buffalo county that. We can have deer like them. But just my thoughts im just a reg guy dont really know. Just makes sense to me.

I know it’s not realistic now but one way to not worry about high priced leases and unhuntable farmers land would be to make the Apr nation wide for whitetails. I love qdm, am late on this post but believe Apr is going to make meat hunters and trophy hunters all happier. It’s not about the kill, it’s the hunt weather it takes 12 months or 12 minutes but there are plenty of great hunting moments that do happen without the squeeze of a trigger! QDM is not just about bigger bucks, I truly care about the health of the herd and will do whatever it takes to help it. Including showing up to vote whenever possible!

Just a thought for the youth and elderly hunters;

Example: Have a 4 day hunt without restrictions for kids 17 & under and for adults 62 & over before the regular firearms season during MEA vacation in the middle of October. This way we the hunters/people that want to give youth a shot at shooting any deer that walks by, they can. It also gives the older hunters in the community to get there shot at any deer they want as well.

Then during the regular archery, firearms, and muzzleloader season all hunters would have to follow APR.

I know part of the new rule is 17 and younger doesnt have a restriction. But your right their isnt anything for the old timers yet they should make a change for those folks.