Antler point restriction

You see, I hate to say this but, education is a huge factor that is missing, web touched on it. Going antler less for 2 or 3 years, will decimate the herd, plain and simple, nobody wants that… A farmer wants his prize bull to spread his seed, no he wouldn’t shoot him.. anymore than he would shoot his offspring when it was a suckling bull calf ??? I guess I am selfish, if I want to see more 10 point bucks in the back of guys pick-ups, than spikers… Who wouldn’t ???

If everyone had 10 a pointer in the back of of the truck, is that still a trophy? Who is setting these standards? I think it should be up to the person pulling the trigger to set their own goals.
I have read “healthier heard”, is ours in bad shape?
Some say we need a better balanced buck to doe ratio, I don’t think the meat hunters are causing the issue, maybe a earn a buck would be better suited.
From what I have been reading alot of this personal opinion.
I have no problem people buying land and putting in food plots, setting trail cameras and managing the deer are on their land, just remember that they are free ranging deer. Until you put a arrow, bullet or slug in that deer,it belongs to all of us.

I see we all have different opinions on this subject, heck I have not even hunted in the 300 zone yet, I tagged my buck up north and now I am down to anterless tags in the 300 area. I am totally fine with this. Good luck to all this season.

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In the end, we are all hunters and need to work together, as there are plenty who do not hunt, who would just as soon see us sit at home in the fall….eating tofu

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Good point G. Then I ask this… What if there is a point restriction and a percentage of the weekend warriors just don’t hunt?? Now we go from 500,000 hunters to 400,000. It takes another $2.7Million in license fees away not to mention the economical affects. I’m just saying we better be careful for what we ask for. Our saftey against PETA has always been in our numbers.

QDM will slowly take it’s course through education and experience. People will just have to be patient. You can’t cram 70 years of hunting tactics and ideas into the 10 years. How many of you practiced QDM in 1999? I bet it’s next to zero.

I’m actually pissed when anyone shoots a big buck. You’re taking my sheds away. Here’s an idea. Lets let em’ all walk and have a big shed hunting party in February?????????!!!!!!!!!??????????? I exaggerate to prove my point.

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If everyone had 10 a pointer in the back of of the truck, is that still a trophy? Who is setting these standards? I think it should be up to the person pulling the trigger to set their own goals.

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Hmmm, good question.

This is a pretty good discussion we have going here.

If MN had the bigger bucks running around like neighboring states, we could easily make up for the 100,000 hunters who would give up hunting (because they can’t shoot a small buck ?, doesn’t seem possible to me but) by selling high priced out of state license to guys coming to MN for a shot at a Trophy.

I can agree that this shouldn’t and won’t happen overnight.. but small steps have been taken and it’s a start. Resistance to change is totally normal and some of the reaction here is expected. In the end, education and understanding will win out. Very little of the info I read on QDM and Antler restrictions is hardly opinions, but rather hard science. I can’t argue with what’s been proven and won’t attempt to…. most of the time

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In the end, we are all hunters and need to work together, as there are plenty who do not hunt, who would just as soon see us sit at home in the fall….eating tofu

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QDM will slowly take it’s course through education and experience. People will just have to be patient. You can’t cram 70 years of hunting tactics and ideas into the 10 years. How many of you practiced QDM in 1999? I bet it’s next to zero.

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I did in 1999 and prior. Most all of my friends did than too.

SO that’s 4. anyone else?

jk. I’m just saying that the number was MUCH MUCH smaller than it is now.

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With more than 475,000 deer hunters hunting in 2009 I’d like to hear from more than the 3293 who were will sampled in that study. If I read correct over 90% of those hunted on their private land. They have the ability to conduct a survey at the point of sale on each deer license sold – if they want to find out a true voice of the hunter i say they survey all deer hunters. If the majority are for it ( I don’t think they will be )I’m all for it.

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This was not a sample survey it was posted on the MN DNR website and anyone on the world wide web could have taken the survey.

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The Top of page 1 reads as follows ” the Survey was MAILED to 6000 Deer hunters 3293 completed the survey “

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SO that’s 4. anyone else?

jk. I’m just saying that the number was MUCH MUCH smaller than it is now.

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I agree, but there was a bunch of people 10-12 years ago doing it, but there is more now. Seems like everyone with a bow is a trophy guy now. So that cool.

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If MN had the bigger bucks running around like neighboring states, we could easily make up for the 100,000 hunters who would give up hunting (because they can’t shoot a small buck ?, doesn’t seem possible to me but) by selling high priced out of state license to guys coming to MN for a shot at a Trophy.

I can agree that this shouldn’t and won’t happen overnight.. but small steps have been taken and it’s a start. Resistance to change is totally normal and some of the reaction here is expected. In the end, education and understanding will win out. Very little of the info I read on QDM and Antler restrictions is hardly opinions, but rather hard science. I can’t argue with what’s been proven and won’t attempt to…. most of the time

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WOW that one made me sick,
So screw the 100,000 hunters so we can make more money from out of state hunters to shoot big bucks? Is this what deer hunting has really became?
Some times peoples true colors come out with greed.

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I would love to see a statewide vote put this to rest instead of tailor making the voting boundries around a predisposed area where the outcome is certain.

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Anyone in the state or out of the state for that matter was able to vote on this in the 2009 DNR survey and the majority said they wanted the antler point restriction.

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Yea and look who showed up.
“Archers were over-represented in the online and
public meeting samples”

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It appears the trend with how people view APR is based on relative experience and/or time spent deer hunting. The opposers generally have less experience/biological knowlege or are summoned to “Tradition”. Based on this “opinion” I ask the following questions:

1. Who should manage the deer herd, persons with experience or inexperience?

2. Whom spends the most money to manage this herd, persons with experience or inexperience?

3. How many laws or traditions from many years ago can be considered relevant to the situation today? Changes have to take place no matter who agrees or disagrees and its hard to feel sorry for people who wont change. (That includes my mother who refuses to use computers. )

4. Based on the DNR’s experience (and majority for the test area), was the decision for APR soley based on “bigger bucks” or could it also be “healthier deer”?

5. How much will a “disagreer” really care about what an “agreer” believes anyway? Just vote, if you werent given the chance it didnt affect you or you didn’t try hard enough. (All standard disclaimers attached because I still love everyone here )

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BS. I hunt for quality meat. Animal age determines that just like chickens, cows and pigs. When’s the last time you fried a 3 year old chicken? You big into T-bones from ole bossy?

Has any state tried only shooting deer under 6 point and anterless to see what the results would be? That way population would still be under control.
Every debate needs two sides

I hunt the antler restriction zone. I am more than capable of making up my own mind on what deer to shoot. I Choose to pass on smaller bucks and allow these deer to grow. I do not need more government telling me what and how I can do something.

I understand the DNR sent out a survey. The people who returned these surveys are those who have the strongest opinions, ie those for antler point restrictions.

I choose not to smoke, but I understand you have a right to do this.

I choose not to keep large walleyes, but I understand you have a right to do this.

More government control is not the answer.

Correct their are two sides to every thing!! The meat hunters say they will qiut hunting if A.P.R are implimented in the state! Well that door swings both ways to, there are alot of guys on here who spend alot of time and money improveing the local herd just to have some weekend warrior, shoot it up and claim”yep I got my buck” only to throw the horns away or in the corner of some barn!!

Bottem line is IF I didnt have a need to hunt 45 days a year, I would never hunt this stupid state!! But I’m not rich, I’m barly older than a kid, i forced to stay he and hunt.

So I ask at what makes the trophy hunter so “selfish”
1)we spent hard earnded monety improveing the herd
2)we hunt the most
3)we selectivly harvest
4)we advocate against anti hunters

Now the meat hunter for example seems to be more like the selfish ones if you lay it all out there!!
1) They shoot whatever comes in
2) They fill other peoples tags young and old
3) Most give little to nothing back to the herd in return for what they have taken.
4) Their biggest concern is filling their tags
5)They have little to no regard for the quality of the future of thier sport.

For me it has come down to this IF I had money I would not waste my fall hunting in a mismanaged whitetail war zone bosting the highest Wolf population in the lower 48, where hunter are trained to shoot anything with horns and disregard all else but putting meat on the pole. But Im stuck and this is why I argue for a happy median. Its called improveing the age structure of the herd, it will only take a few years if people would get on board!! Bottem line is with the herd dwindling at the rate it is in some areas even the meat hounds will have to start worring about how to improve our herds.

Well all this typeing has me worked up I think I will go have a bowl of Buck Tag soup as I have for many seasons its becoming a tradition, oh but thats right we trophy hunters are so selfish!!

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Correct their are two sides to every thing!! The meat hunters say they will qiut hunting if A.P.R are implimented in the state! Well that door swings both ways to, there are alot of guys on here who spend alot of time and money improveing the local herd just to have some weekend warrior, shoot it up and claim”yep I got my buck” only to throw the horns away or in the corner of some barn!!

Bottem line is IF I didnt have a need to hunt 45 days a year, I would never hunt this stupid state!! But I’m not rich, I’m barly older than a kid, i forced to stay he and hunt.

So I ask at what makes the trophy hunter so “selfish”
1)we spent hard earnded monety improveing the herd
2)we hunt the most
3)we selectivly harvest
4)we advocate against anti hunters

Now the meat hunter for example seems to be more like the selfish ones if you lay it all out there!!
1) They shoot whatever comes in
2) They fill other peoples tags young and old
3) Most give little to nothing back to the herd in return for what they have taken.
4) Their biggest concern is filling their tags
5)They have little to no regard for the quality of the future of thier sport.

For me it has come down to this IF I had money I would not waste my fall hunting in a mismanaged whitetail war zone bosting the highest Wolf population in the lower 48, where hunter are trained to shoot anything with horns and disregard all else but putting meat on the pole. But Im stuck and this is why I argue for a happy median. Its called improveing the age structure of the herd, it will only take a few years if people would get on board!! Bottem line is with the herd dwindling at the rate it is in some areas even the meat hounds will have to start worring about how to improve our herds.

Well all this typeing has me worked up I think I will go have a bowl of Buck Tag soup as I have for many seasons its becoming a tradition, oh but thats right we trophy hunters are so selfish!!

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Well said , What time is the soup going on ? I’ll bring my tag over

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If MN had the bigger bucks running around like neighboring states, we could easily make up for the 100,000 hunters who would give up hunting (because they can’t shoot a small buck ?, doesn’t seem possible to me but) by selling high priced out of state license to guys coming to MN for a shot at a Trophy.

I can agree that this shouldn’t and won’t happen overnight.. but small steps have been taken and it’s a start. Resistance to change is totally normal and some of the reaction here is expected. In the end, education and understanding will win out. Very little of the info I read on QDM and Antler restrictions is hardly opinions, but rather hard science. I can’t argue with what’s been proven and won’t attempt to…. most of the time

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WOW that one made me sick,
So screw the 100,000 hunters so we can make more money from out of state hunters to shoot big bucks? Is this what deer hunting has really became?
Some times peoples true colors come out with greed.

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Do you really think I was serious ??? Was walleyebuster serious that 100,000 hunters would stay home in november because of antler restrictions ? I thought not…. Unfortunately, you could not see my sarcasm in my response, but I guess most around here, know me and my views from previous posts, my intention is not to have 100,000 people quit hunting…

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So I ask at what makes the trophy hunter so “selfish”
1)we spent hard earnded money improveing the herd

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How are you “improving the herd? Shooting mature deer? I can understand you may improve the age structure, but I don’t think this has anything to do with a herd improvement. It may lead to a larger portion of older bucks, but that is it.

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2)we hunt the most

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Hours in the woods has nothing to do with Antler point restrictions.

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3)we selectivly harvest

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While I applaude you, I fail to see how this is relevant

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4)we advocate against anti hunters

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As do most if not all hunters regardless of which age deer they choose to harvest.

Sorry QDM, I do not mean to attack you personally, I just used your points as a means of reference.

FB

“Now the meat hunter for example seems to be more like the selfish ones if you lay it all out there!!
1) They shoot whatever comes in”

Oh come on!!!! I’m a meat hunter and you have no idea how many deer I sort through to get the right one. I prefer not to shoot does. The result is more deer next year in an environment arguably short of deer in many places already. if you want to talk conservation that is my contribution. If I do my thing and you do your thing I would think a balance has been struck.

By herd improvement I mean by digging water holes, providing better cover, providing high quality food sources that are left all season, suplementing minerals at pealk lactaion of the does the help boosth the fawn crop. All these are things I do before ever even getting a chance to pull a trigger.

Hours in the woods has everything thing to do with qdm I can pass on hunderds of bucks during a season and still eat tag soup because we have not had a chance at a quality animal. I could have shot dozens of basket racks so far this season and with party hunting it would have been totaly legal

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“Now the meat hunter for example seems to be more like the selfish ones if you lay it all out there!!
1) They shoot whatever comes in”

Oh come on!!!! I’m a meat hunter and you have no idea how many deer I sort through to get the right one. I prefer not to shoot does. The result is more deer next year in an environment arguably short of deer in many places already. if you want to talk conservation that is my contribution. If I do my thing and you do your thing I would think a balance has been struck.

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Why do prefer not to shoot does? Is it because what you said, really? More deer next year?
Or is it that you feel shooting a buck of any size is more of an accomplishment than shooting a doe? You have the right to do whatever is legal and I could care less, just curious.
And to the folks that are taking this personal about the “goverment” shoving stuff down their throat, come on, really? All the DNR is trying to do is make everyone happy and improve the herd.

Selective harvest is key shooting an doe with 2 buck fawns wit hher will result in a better survival rate of those 2 buck, prooven by radio clar studies!! As well as selective harvest of bucks, I would like to thing its because of the improved habitat but I have dozens of 1.5 year old bucks with 4 points on each side, but that doesnt make them a mature deer so I SELECT to pass on him. If everyone was more selective on their harvest to begin with antler point restiction wouldnt be implimented.

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4)we advocate against anti hunters

As do most if not all hunters regardless of which age deer they choose to harvest.

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I find it hard to belive that the 2500 some od people who call them selves deer hunters and were giving a chance to voice their mind in the survey but didnt take the 10 minutes to do so would show up on the capitol steps if a rally was to take place. The average MN deer hunter doesnt think about deer until the leaves fall of the threes let alone pay attention to the activites at the capitol regarding hunting!

I question you on these
1 I help the farmer who’s crops are being eaten.
2 I thought the license was the same price for everyone weather you hunt 1 hour or the whole season, I should be getting a discount then.
3 we selectivly harvest? What??? What is selective harvest?
4 we advocate against anti hunters. Where is this founded, MEAT hunters don’t??
Now on to the meat hunters, be thankfull for them! If it wasn’t for them you would be earn a buck!
Wolfs are a part of our problem, cougars are a part too.
I wish I could find the artical that stated wolves kill the majority of deer over 3 1/2 years and hunters only kill majority of 2 1/2 of the your deer.!

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I question you on these
1 I help the farmer who’s crops are being eaten.
2 I thought the license was the same price for everyone weather you hunt 1 hour or the whole season, I should be getting a discount then.
3 we selectivly harvest? What??? What is selective harvest?
4 we advocate against anti hunters. Where is this founded, MEAT hunters don’t??
Now on to the meat hunters, be thankfull for them! If it wasn’t for them you would be earn a buck!
Wolfs are a part of our problem, cougars are a part too.
I wish I could find the artical that stated wolves kill the majority of deer over 3 1/2 years and hunters only kill majority of 2 1/2 of the your deer.!

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Selective harvest means not shoting the first deer that comes in!! And if you want to go further is passing on “legal” bucks because its not mature, it shooting an old doe rather than a young one. I could go on and on and on!!

Im not saying that meat hunters dont advocate but the majority of hunters who would spent the time going to the capitol to protest are not the guys who shoot the first fork horn they see bacause its a buck!

For the record I am DYING FOR EARN A BUCK!!! I will stop that guys who only shoot one deer a year regardless if its a buck or not!!

And also for the record IF I had MY WAY there would be NO!!! Wolves

Coming from a farming background I have little to no compasion for the farmers crop loss, They make DAM good money off the crops and then till them 12 inches deep as soon as they are harvested, leaving a barron waste land of dirt. I hope the deer get in every bite they can!! If it wasnt some farmers “land” it would be a wild natural diverse ecosystem thriving on its own provideing food and cover for all animals. Farmers need to remember that your going to have a deer density of somany deer per square mile weather they like it or not!!

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I thought the license was the same price for everyone weather you hunt 1 hour or the whole season, I should be getting a discount then.

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I should gett the discount I buy 3 licenses and dont fill any of them because the weekned warriors have shot the place up!!

Hunting and fishing in the US is mandated by a slew of laws. We aren’t talking dozens, heck we aren’t even talking about hundreds; we are talking about thousands of laws. The entire sport or hunting and fishing are regulated by thousands of laws on the state and federal level. Actually, you can add county and city to that too. These laws will always be changing; it’s part of the American democracy. Just like all the laws pertaining to everything else besides hunting and fishing change.

We actually have it pretty good here in the US. Hunting and fishing is pretty easy to do here. For instance licenses are reasonably priced, game is well managed and land is accessible. If you don’t believe this, take some time to research what it’s like to hunt in other countries like the UK for instance. Sure there are some places that are a free for all, but that’s not the answer either.

Changing a small law like this is really just a small blip on the evolutionally radar of hunting and fishing laws. So far nobody has said that you can’t harvest a deer. There has just been a small restriction put in place regulating what deer you can’t harvest. It’s like changing the speed limit on the road you drive to work from 55mph to 45mph. Sure people are going to complain because they are going to be late to work, blah, blah, blah,; when really they are just too lazy to get up 5 minutes earlier. There will be people up in arm about more regulations being shoved down their throats, blah, blah, blah. Come on, it’s part of living in the country. If you don’t like living under regulations, I hear Columbia is nice in the fall. Seriously, in the grand scheme of things, I’m amazed that people can’t be bothered enough to shoot a buck with at least 4 points on one site. There are 1 million deer in this state; there are plenty to choose from.

Rant over….

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We actually have it pretty good here in the US. Hunting and fishing is pretty easy to do here.

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Yup, you can’t do this in France!