Antler point restriction

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That being said I have a friend who’s dad loves to hunt but doesn’t get around the best any more. He wants to get out there and shoot the first one that walks by and then be done. I have a hard time with the law telling a guy like that he has to change what he has done for 40 years especially when you consider his circumstances.

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I’d like to hear some responses to that one….Please, I really need to hear them. Personally I’ve always thought of the youngsters in the point restriction argument. Never gave the vets a thought. But now I will,,and my dad is one too!

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I guess you can make the same argument with fishing…my sons 1st walleye was 16″, but it fell into the 14″ – 18″ slot limit so he isn’t allowed to keep it. I guess with hunting you can always have the 1st timers shoot the does. I know my son was excited for his 1st deer and it was during the antlerless season last year. And with the APR it wouldn’t take but a few years for him to have an opportunity at several nice bucks!

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I guess you can make the same argument with fishing…my sons 1st walleye was 16″, but it fell into the 14″ – 18″ slot limit so he isn’t allowed to keep it. I guess with hunting you can always have the 1st timers shoot the does. I know my son was excited for his 1st deer and it was during the antlerless season last year. And with the APR it wouldn’t take but a few years for him to have an opportunity at several nice bucks!

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Can’t compare fishing to hunting. I can catch 10 walleyes in a day. Can’t shoot 10 deer. I don’t think anything compares to a kids first deer.

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You cant eat antlers so please tell me why they are so important? I really want to know how a temporary unedible calcium deposit on a deer’s head is so important that I should be forced to ignore my ages old instinct to pursue them for food and only harvest large antlered males. Rhetorical question Farley.
That deer is never gonna get scun…..

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Do you really pursue them JUST for food? Maybe so, and if you do that’s fine. If it is just for food, have you considered Organic Buffalo, the meat is actually much tastier, and when you factor in weapon, clothing, gas, ammunition (arrows/broadheads/bullets), all the gadgets, your time, etc, the Buffalo would be much cheaper. I guess I wish I could tell you why the antler is so important, it just is to some, myself included. It isn’t just about the antler. Anyone on a given day could go out and harvest a 1.5 year old buck. Every year thousands of “lucky” people stumble on 3.5, 4.5, 5.5 year old+ deer. A select few who have the ability, area, or both are able to do it on a consistent basis. Why not give more people the opportunity to have a better chance at a “wallhanger”? I don’t know anyone who goes out into the woods hoping that a spike comes by before a 170″ giant. For me it is about spending time in the woods and figuring out the most elusive animals. If I were to follow this “age-old instinct” and hunt only for food, I would get to hunt about 60 minutes a year. In this day and age I don’t believe anyone has to “hunt” for food anymore. Not everyone is going to be happy with every hunting regulation/rule we have. The way I see it, it would really only affect 1-2 years of hunting. The first year, there would be tons of 1.5 year old bucks, of which most would get the pass to 2.5 years old. Now look at all the 2.5 year old bucks that are out there, and most likely available for year #2, and each year would be a snowball effect, eventually some of these bucks are going to be your top end bucks that the horn hunter is after, and yet there would be greater numbers of 2.5 year old bucks for the meat hunter. Check out the link in the post above to the Missouri game and fish site. It does have some great info.

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I guess you can make the same argument with fishing…my sons 1st walleye was 16″, but it fell into the 14″ – 18″ slot limit so he isn’t allowed to keep it. I guess with hunting you can always have the 1st timers shoot the does. I know my son was excited for his 1st deer and it was during the antlerless season last year. And with the APR it wouldn’t take but a few years for him to have an opportunity at several nice bucks!

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Can’t compare fishing to hunting. I can catch 10 walleyes in a day. Can’t shoot 10 deer. I don’t think anything compares to a kids first deer.

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Start em young….. how else will hunters learn QDM ? They can shoot any antlerless deer anyways, nobodys is saying they can’t shoot their first deer ? If they have to pass on a spike with 3″ antlers, guess what ? They learned a valuable lesson and I am sure it will be just like any other law we have to follow. Change is difficult and sometimes, we do need somebody telling us what to do…. Uh, oh…did I say that ???

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I guess you can make the same argument with fishing…my sons 1st walleye was 16″, but it fell into the 14″ – 18″ slot limit so he isn’t allowed to keep it. I guess with hunting you can always have the 1st timers shoot the does. I know my son was excited for his 1st deer and it was during the antlerless season last year. And with the APR it wouldn’t take but a few years for him to have an opportunity at several nice bucks!

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Can’t compare fishing to hunting. I can catch 10 walleyes in a day. Can’t shoot 10 deer. I don’t think anything compares to a kids first deer.

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Agreed…I can tell you if a spike or a fork comes by on Thursday morning with my son in the blind with me, he will be pulling the trigger. But if WI ever decided to go to APR, I would be right in line to vote for it. At his age (13)it’s not about hunting a big buck, it’s about hunting deer. I recall as a kid how excited I was to down a doe. I think we as adults tend to think as adults when it comes to our kids and hunting. The kids just enjoy getting out and having an opportunity to shoot whatever…whether it’s a buck or a doe.

So I should be legally restricted to operate under your beliefs? Under current laws we both can do what we want. Under YOUR laws I cannot. Why are you trying to force your will on me?!?!?!?!

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So I should be legally restricted to operate under your beliefs? Under current laws we both can do what we want. Under YOUR laws I cannot. Why are you trying to force your will on me?!?!?!?!

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That’s why these are voted on by the hunters…and the majority will rule. All you can do is voice your own opinion when/if it comes around.

I would love to see a statewide vote put this to rest instead of tailor making the voting boundries around a predisposed area where the outcome is certain.

Though I stand on my earlier comment that having AR in a small area really doesnt affect me but I dont like seeing the precedant set if it leads to a larger statewide restriction. I am against it and have decided to take a stand. Attack me if you wish. I will respond in kind.

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So I should be legally restricted to operate under your beliefs? Under current laws we both can do what we want. Under YOUR laws I cannot. Why are you trying to force your will on me?!?!?!?!

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They are not my laws, my beliefs yes, but that’s it. The only way this will happen is through a collaberative effort. I’m not forcing anything on you, just stating my opinion, in actuality I was just answering a question you asked, with my opinion. Didn’t say it was right for you, just what I would like to see. When it comes up at the spring hearings on the ballot to be discussed, just make sure that you are there to give your opinion. It’s just like most things in life, we will all never agree on everything. All we can do is hope that the people who make the laws follow the majority of the constituent feelings.

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So I should be legally restricted to operate under your beliefs? Under current laws we both can do what we want. Under YOUR laws I cannot. Why are you trying to force your will on me?!?!?!?!

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You have to be on the other side, just for arguments sake…. there actually are people who would just as soon hunt deer (any deer) with a spotlight and a high powered after the bar closes, but my “beliefs” are forced on them… I agree with the shooting hour laws. Way back when, you could hunt deer at any hour… times change.

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I have been bow hunting 11 years also and have never harvested a buck by bow but its pure choice, the arguement that “I only hunt a few days a year is just an excuse” I hunt dozens of days a year and don’t fill a tag but I don’t care BECAUSE I ENJOY IT. The simple fact of how many bucks survive to maturity is disgusting!! (Less than 5%) to have restictions when hunting sucks period but somthing needs to be done or we will get nowhere soon, with the deer numbers dropping on a lot of hunters hunting grounds the past 2 season, we finally have the ability to manage our herd effectivly targeting a nomore than 3 to 1 doe to buck ratio that’s needed for the whole herd to benefit!! Better herd = better hunts, they won’t grow unless you let them go! Shoot does you can’t eat bones! 1.5 year old buck is the dumbest animal in the woods during the rut(mn gunseason)

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So I should be legally restricted to operate under your beliefs? Under current laws we both can do what we want. Under YOUR laws I cannot. Why are you trying to force your will on me?!?!?!?!

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You have to be on the other side, just for arguments sake…. there actually are people who would just as soon hunt deer (any deer) with a spotlight and a high powered after the bar closes, but my “beliefs” are forced on them… I agree with the shooting hour laws. Way back when, you could hunt deer at any hour… times change.

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I respect your response. One that gives me pause without being insulting. Now on to that @#$#(&% deer hide…

Suzuki,
Below is a link to a 2005 DNR study(I know it’s older, but it was a statewide survey). It found that 60% of the people would support an APR. See page 3.
http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/recreation/hunting/deer/2005huntersurvey_execsummary.pdf
Below is another survey from hunters in SE MN in a 2009.
http://warnercnr.colostate.edu/nrrt/hdfw/documents/2010HDWCornicelli.pdf
68% of the public was in favor of the APR. See page 17.
I’m fine with allowing the youth to harvest whatever they want, as we need the kids to carry-on hunting traditions. Reducing the season length and eliminating buck cross tagging would also be nice.
Both surveys showed the majority were in favor of the changes.

Not trying to be argumentative (in this istance) but you should go back and read the stats a little closer. Your presentation of the facts is incorrect and misleading. For example:

“For the 65% of respondents who

supported regulation changes, we

examined which regulatory

alternative was most supported. In

total, antler-point restrictions (60%)”

that’s 60% of the 65%. The actual base number supporting it is 47%. Likewise on the second example read about the “public” representing the 68%. Check out the “conclusions” not to mention the fact this survey was based on Zone 3 participants. I also see a stat showing a drop in APR from 2005 to 2009. This goes along with my earlier point that if you pick the right demographic carefully you can be assured of getting your outcome.

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Suzuki,
Below is a link to a 2005 DNR study(I know it’s older, but it was a statewide survey). It found that 60% of the people would support an APR. See page 3.
http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/recreation/hunting/deer/2005huntersurvey_execsummary.pdf
Below is another survey from hunters in SE MN in a 2009.
http://warnercnr.colostate.edu/nrrt/hdfw/documents/2010HDWCornicelli.pdf
68% of the public was in favor of the APR. See page 17.
I’m fine with allowing the youth to harvest whatever they want, as we need the kids to carry-on hunting traditions. Reducing the season length and eliminating buck cross tagging would also be nice.
Both surveys showed the majority were in favor of the changes.

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Ranger

With more than 475,000 deer hunters hunting in 2009 I’d like to hear from more than the 3293 who were will sampled in that study. If I read correct over 90% of those hunted on their private land. They have the ability to conduct a survey at the point of sale on each deer license sold – if they want to find out a true voice of the hunter i say they survey all deer hunters. If the majority are for it ( I don’t think they will be )I’m all for it.

I’d be up for that. Kinda like a few years back when they asked you if you shot any Hairy Chested Nut Scratchers, etc. etc. One question. Would you be in favor of an antler restriction during your MN whitetail season? Can’t move forward until a response is collected.

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So I should be legally restricted to operate under your beliefs? Under current laws we both can do what we want. Under YOUR laws I cannot. Why are you trying to force your will on me?!?!?!?!

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That’s why these are voted on by the hunters…and the majority will rule. All you can do is voice your own opinion when/if it comes around.

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It was a 50/50 split is what they told Us, that is not majority.

Suzuki-
Please help me understand your stance and the reason behind it. I read loud and clear you oppose the antler restriction.

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So I should be legally restricted to operate under your beliefs? Under current laws we both can do what we want. Under YOUR laws I cannot. Why are you trying to force your will on me?!?!?!?!

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That’s why these are voted on by the hunters…and the majority will rule. All you can do is voice your own opinion when/if it comes around.

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It was a 50/50 split is what they told Us, that is not majoirty.

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Sorry, not much I can say about that! I’m not the DNR and I don’t live in WI!

Post deleted by zimmy101

It should not matter whether you own any land or thousands of acres… if the land is in a restricted antler region, it applies. This should then help everybody, for a meat hunter, wouldn’t you rather have a 140lb deer, as opposed to a 85 lb’er ??? The analogy of meat for the freezer, could be compared to being able to keep 1 perch to eat and keeping a 6″ perch for the pan, as opposed to releasing it & going for a 12″ jumbo… there again, if you keep all the 6″ fish, you have alot less jumbo’s in time. Sounds like your buddy did the wrong thing and then the right thing We always need to make sure of what we are pulling the trigger on. If you listen closely, I do hear some saying “let em go to grow”, but more so, I hear why shoot a 100 lb 4 point buck, when a 120 lb doe would taste just as good and be bigger ? I also will not frown on someone who works hard, to get ahead and buys some land for their hunting enjoyment. Nobody should be looked down on, for working hard and buying some land… I along with 3 other guys did it and I just think that makes us smart. Anybody can do it, if they truely wanted to, some just have other priorities. BTW, land is pretty reasonable right now

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I don’t think you should take the opportunity away from a first time hunter to kill any buck.

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Antler Point Restrictions in zone 3 do not apply to youth hunters age 10 to 17.

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I would love to see a statewide vote put this to rest instead of tailor making the voting boundries around a predisposed area where the outcome is certain.

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Anyone in the state or out of the state for that matter was able to vote on this in the 2009 DNR survey and the majority said they wanted the antler point restriction.

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eliminating buck cross tagging would also be nice.

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This law did go into effect this year for zone 3.

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With more than 475,000 deer hunters hunting in 2009 I’d like to hear from more than the 3293 who were will sampled in that study. If I read correct over 90% of those hunted on their private land. They have the ability to conduct a survey at the point of sale on each deer license sold – if they want to find out a true voice of the hunter i say they survey all deer hunters. If the majority are for it ( I don’t think they will be )I’m all for it.

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This was not a sample survey it was posted on the MN DNR website and anyone on the world wide web could have taken the survey.

I enjoy hunting for the big one. A group of twenty of us put money in a pool and have a traveling trophy for who shoots the biggest buck each year. It’s kind of like a fantasy football but with deer hunting. Do we enjoy eating the deer too? Yes, but we can shoot a doe or mature buck with out needing to make a kill on a spike or 1 1/2 yr old deer.

It appears the trend with how people view APR is based on relative experience and/or time spent deer hunting. The opposers generally have less experience/biological knowlege or are summoned to “Tradition”. Based on this “opinion” I ask the following questions:

1. Who should manage the deer herd, persons with experience or inexperience?

2. Whom spends the most money to manage this herd, persons with experience or inexperience?

3. How many laws or traditions from many years ago can be considered relevant to the situation today? Changes have to take place no matter who agrees or disagrees and its hard to feel sorry for people who wont change. (That includes my mother who refuses to use computers. )

4. Based on the DNR’s experience (and majority for the test area), was the decision for APR soley based on “bigger bucks” or could it also be “healthier deer”?

5. How much will a “disagreer” really care about what an “agreer” believes anyway? Just vote, if you werent given the chance it didnt affect you or you didn’t try hard enough. (All standard disclaimers attached because I still love everyone here )

First off, you better hope your mom doesn’t read this…

Second, I think your correct. There are lots of different types of hunters. There are those who spend 12 months out of the year, working towards a healthy herd and a hopefully great hunting season and there are also those who buy their tag on wednesday night before opener, sight in the rifle thursday and shoot a deer saturday morning… any deer. Then there are a bunch of people inbetween the two. I can only imagine how stances and perspective could differ between the two…. In the end, we are all hunters and need to work together, as there are plenty who do not hunt, who would just as soon see us sit at home in the fall….eating tofu

To me APR is just selfish, why would you or anyone care if I shot a spike, fork or 6pt? to me that would be better for you knowing I did not take your trophy buck you are looking for.
Does a farmer go out and shoot his prize bull? If you really want to quicken this process, make it anterless for two or three years. Just think how many bucks would get a chance to mature. The way it is now we are just shooting the mature buck . I love to hunt deer and yes a big racked buck would be nice but if I don’t shoot one I am not all depressed and thinking that if someone else would not have shot their deer I would have a better chance, I just give them a .