The DNR boys have been busy somewhere.

Ok how crazy do you want to get with this “fair chase” thing

As long as we have guns bows camo treestands deer calls etc etc it will never be “fair”

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Ok how crazy do you want to get with this “fair chase” thing

As long as we have guns bows camo treestands deer calls etc etc it will never be “fair”

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Very good point Gut!

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The definition of “fair chase” must be different for some.

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Technically speaking, food plots are ok as so is baiting. Trail cameras are questionable as so are lighted sights, nocks and electric calls. Below is the definition of Fair Chase as “PERCIEVED” by P&Y.

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A specific subset of Ethics has to do with the manner in which the Hunt is conducted.

From its beginnings, the Pope and Young Club established, defined and maintains an ethical code of hunting referred to as FAIR CHASE. The concept of fair chase bow hunting is the very core of the Club’s belief system and one of our major advocacy focuses.

The fair chase philosophy reaches to the very foundations of the hunting spirit; it should be a dominant factor in the personal hunting ethic of every responsible individual; it is key to bowhunting’s future with deep roots in America’s hunting heritage. Simply defined, fair chase is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit of free-ranging wild game animals in a manner which does not give the hunter an improper or unfair advantage over the animal.

The Rules of Fair Chase

The term “Fair Chase” shall not include the taking of animals under the following conditions:

• Helpless in a trap, deep snow or water, or on ice.

• From any power vehicle or power boat.

• By “jacklighting” or shining at night.

• By the use of any tranquilizers or poisons.

• While inside escape-proof fenced enclosures.

• By the use of any power vehicle or power boats for herding or driving animals, including use of aircraft to land alongside or to communicate with or direct a hunter on the ground.

• By the use of electronic devices for attracting, locating or pursuing game or guiding the hunter to such game, or by the use of a bow or arrow to which any electronic device is attached.

• Any other condition considered by the Board of Directors as unacceptable.

The fair chase concept does, however, extend beyond the hunt itself; it is an attitude and a way of life based in a deep-seated respect for wildlife, for the environment, and for other individuals who share the bounty of this vast continent’s natural resources.

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Thanks for posting that Rob. I was looking for it.
Even P/Y say baiting is ok then?>

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Thanks for posting that Rob. I was looking for it.
Even P/Y say baiting is ok then?>

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Baiting is governed state to state. P & Y does not think it is not “fair chase” think about it. If you sit in or near an oak tree and we all know deer love acorns, you would be out. If you sit near an apple tree, you would be out. Deer eat everywhere, alfalfa, pine needles, grass, corn, beans… you literally couldn’t hunt in 99% of the world, if setting up to “ambush” near food, was not fair chase. Again, everybodys definition may differ, but to me fair chase is anything inside the law, but I do agree with fence hunts(though legal) as not being fair chase….

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Thanks for posting that Rob. I was looking for it.

Even P/Y say baiting is ok then?>

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Again IMO this is shaky, because of what is considered ethical varies by many as we have seen from this post. The best advice I can give is: You need to decide what you think is right and can live with personally. Then as long as it is within the law, you have every right to do what you want.

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Simply defined, fair chase is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit of free-ranging wild game animals in a manner which does not give the hunter an improper or unfair advantage over the animal.

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Personally, I consider baiting un ethical, however according to P&Y currently I do not hunt fair chase because I use trail cameras and lighted nocks where it is legal. So accoridng to them I’m no better then the guy baiting. Lighted nocks are illegal in ND, I think mainly because of this P&Y rule. However, I use them where it is legal because IMO, they do not help me shoot the animal but they greatly help me recover the animal and for me I feel that it is acceptable, because I owe it to that animal to recover it at all costs after it is shot. Heck after thinking about it, I think a range finder (electronic device) could be considered as giving me an improper advantage also. Lastly, I also I believe P&Y / B&C needs to revamp/review there standards as society and times have changed since these were adapted, but again that is just my opinion. I know they have done this to a point (many deer harvested with nocks, sights, range finders, and trail cameras have been accpeted into the books), but they need to reivew and update their rules of “fair chase” to reflect todays world.

Good point G. Its just my opinion and I just don’t. We do have a 10 acre foodplot set-up in a 30 acre area we call the sanctuary that we don’t even walk in during hunting season. It gives the deer a safe zone and it seems to work for us.

A question or maybe more of a statement….

Does it much matter what P&Y and B&C says or thinks? Yes we all use their scoring systems to gauge what is shot however, unless you really are looking to put your name in a book and pay to then see it….those two clubs and “their” rules are really moot points.

As far as baiting in MN, with as much ag as we have in the state….IMO, everyone starts out the season on a level playing field. And yes that includes specially designed food plots. But if you now have a neighbor who lacks the desire to hunt harder and wants things to be easier, starts putting out special food. Food that is not found and not natural to the area other than his pile. Guess where the majority of the deer go if he continues with his illegal supplement program? How can you compete without your very own pile of snickers bars?

Food plots exist early on in the season(just as a corn, bean or alfalfa field is), deer know about it and come to it when they want. Bait piles are not and bait piles exist of something extra…something special…something that will attract deer in short order. Unless one of those crop or food plot fiedls are a 5’x5′ area, deer have ample entrance and exit routes to it. Late Dec you dump 50-100lbs of corn on the ground, guess how many entrance/exit routes they have to it? 1…about 20-25 yards away from your stand. That comparison alone to me is the clear distinction between why baiting and food plots are no where the same.

I hear the arguement all the time. “You can’t shoot big bucks on bait piles. Bait piles aren’t what you think they are and they aren’t a slam dunk for shooting a deer”. Every time I laugh. Then why do it….why spend the $$ on baiting if you don’t see instant results.

Kirk Peterson from Peterson Taxidermy in Arkansaw, WI mounts 150-200 bucks per year. He always asks a few questions about the kill and one of them is if it was shot over bait or not (in WI it’s legal outside of the CWD area). He states that he can count on one hand where a mature buck was killed over a bait pile. Granted, some hunters may not want to tell others but I still thought that was pretty interesting.

Anyone else out there who’s killed a mature buck over a bait pile?

HERE IN THE UP KILLING A “MATURE” BUCK THAT BEING 3.5 OR OLDER OVER BAIT IS A FAIRLY COMMON OCCURANCE. MY WIFE KILLED A 4.5 135 OVER AN APPLE PILE 8 YEARS AGO. MY BIGGEST MICHIGAN DEER WAS KILLED OVER A APPLE PILE. PRETTY MUCH ALL BIG WOODS UP HERE. I CAN TELL YOU THOUGH I ABSOLUTELY LIVE TO LOOK OVER TOPOS AND ARIEL PHOTOS AND HUNT FUNNELS,PINCH POINTS ECT AT OUR LEASE IN BUFFALO. THAT TO ME IS “HUNTING” AND NO BAIT IS USED. I CAN SEE BOTH SIDES. I JUST READ AN ARTICLE THE OTHER DAY IN DEER AND DEER HUNTING BY THE NUDGE AND HE MAKES IT CLEAR WHERE HE STANDS! IMAGINE THAT. GREAT TOPIC LOVE THE READS

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Kirk Peterson from Peterson Taxidermy in Arkansaw, WI mounts 150-200 bucks per year. He always asks a few questions about the kill and one of them is if it was shot over bait or not (in WI it’s legal outside of the CWD area). He states that he can count on one hand where a mature buck was killed over a bait pile. Granted, some hunters may not want to tell others but I still thought that was pretty interesting.

Anyone else out there who’s killed a mature buck over a bait pile?

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Out of those people though, it would be interesting to hear what the baiting practices just are. I’ll make this comparison. Or choose one that fits better. Doe in heat scent works right? Well in the right scenarios it does. Do you think it would work as well if from July through Dec or even all year long for that matter you dumped a gallon of doe pee out where you hunted or walked to your stand with a drag rag? Would it work just as well as it did before when you only used it at the proper times? I doubt it. By baiting all year long or for a long period of time….walking to and from the core area, hunting over it, refreshing it…all your doing is educating deer. We all know that you can’t educate mature bucks or you flat out don’t get on them unless they screw up. Why for the most part do you hear from the pro baiting crowd that all they see/shoot are doe and fawns…basically 2.5’s and under? It’s not difficult to play it all out. Your educating deer.

For the record though, I’m not dogging on guys that bait. If it’s legal and you find enjoyment from it, knock yourself out and good luck! I just hope it is never allowed in MN.

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I plant food plots for 1 reason to bring the deer to me so I can harvest them Bottom line

I hunt 100 acres of private land and purposely plant plots to pull the deer out of the neighbors

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hahahah thats awesome

Here’s an interesting point of view on baiting from a New Hampshire Fish and Game Dept. Wildlife Biogist.

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“Good Samaritans who think they’re helping deer by putting out feed in the winter may actually be endangering the health of the herd”, says New Hampshire Fish and Game Department wildlife biologist Kent Gustafson.

“People mean well, but don’t realize the damage they’re doing. Feeding wild white-tailed deer may actually reduce the animals’ ability to survive a New England winter, making them more vulnerable to starvation, predation, disease and vehicle collisions,” says Gustafson, who is the Deer Project Leader for Fish and Game. “Despite people’s good intentions, supplemental feeding creates an artificial situation in which the deer, the habitat and the public may suffer.”

We don’t know where the following photo was taken (it made the email rounds this morning), but it is a stark reminder of how feeding stations congregate deer.

Many people think of feeding deer like feeding the birds, but there are some critical differences that make feeding deer unhealthy for the deer population, for plants near the feed site and for passing motorists. One scientific study in Maine concluded that forest plant communities can be permanently altered within 1,000 yards of traditional feeding sites.

“Quality natural habitat provides the best insurance for deer survival in winter,” says Gustafson. “If you care about deer, leave them alone — let them be wild, and find natural foods and appropriate winter shelter on their own. The bottom line is, please don’t feed the deer, and please discourage your neighbors, friends and relatives from engaging in this harmful activity.”

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Kirk Peterson from Peterson Taxidermy in Arkansaw, WI mounts 150-200 bucks per year. He always asks a few questions about the kill and one of them is if it was shot over bait or not (in WI it’s legal outside of the CWD area). He states that he can count on one hand where a mature buck was killed over a bait pile. Granted, some hunters may not want to tell others but I still thought that was pretty interesting.

Anyone else out there who’s killed a mature buck over a bait pile?

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Brad,

Kirk is located in a very agricultural portion of the state, as you know. Comparing Buffalo county to any other county in the state, or in the USA for that matter is not relative. The amount of baiting that goes on is very miniscule in BC compared to the more wooded counties of the state. With the percentage of “public” land in BC, baiting does not affect the average Joe, anything like the other counties of the state.

One quick example for you. In 2007 I passed a 6×6 typical. At the time he was young, 3.5 and only scored around 125″. Now for the public land areas I hunt, normally this would be a shooter. This guy had too much potential, and this was a small (40 acre) private land tract, surrounded by other private land. There was a small chance he could make it, so he got a pass. Unfortunately this deer bedded 3/4 mile away, and my only chance was during the rut when he was traveling. Well in early December, this guy started showing back up the 3 acre corn field that was on this property. At the same time, the field got picked, and after 2 days time he was gone. A week later I bought a specific food, that I had designed for deer nutrition. Nothing special, just oats ,beans, corn, a little molasses, and some minerals mixed together. I started feeding this mix, back in the woods, away from view off the roads, and fields. Within 2 days the 6×6 was back and I was getting pictures of him constantly. Each day, he kept appearing closer and closer to shooting hours. Within one week, I was getting pics of this buck, standing in the hardwoods feeding in hunting hours. It would have been as simple as waiting for a NW wind, and climbing into a stand and killing him. Not for me, that said, I continued to monitor the camera, daily. Finally on January 3, he shed both sides, sometime between 1:27 am, and 3:13 am. How far can a deer walk in that time. Let me tell you, I walked for days, with my lab looking for those horns. Never did find them. I fed out 8,000 pounds of that mix that winter. Although I could have killed that animal over the bait, I never could find his sheds.

Fast forward 2008. Trail cameras, scouting, and many sits, never produced a single sighting of this deer.

2009 this deer isn’t even on my mind, I know he is dead. Well early August I hear the farmer talking of a huge 12 pointer, roaming the area quite often. Again the trail cams start getting a workout, could it be him? October 15th I finally get a pic of him. His rack has changed, he is now a 7×6 with a similar frame, just tons more mass, and a little more length in some areas. I pulled my first all day sit, on Oct. 24th, 4 deer none him. I then knew that I would get a crack at him if I stuck with it. That is the pattern for this property. Mature bucks would show up traveling through this funnel area of hardwoods, from around the 27th of October, on through about November 20th. Starting October 27th, I hunted every morning, and 13 evenings in that area, waiting for him. This was the best year I ever had on this property, seeing 19 different bucks, 5 normally would have had been shooters for this area (120-140), and a great crop of could be shooters for the next year. “My” buck never made an appearance during the daylight. I did get 12 or 13 pics of him at night moving through. Then on the last week-end of regular bow season, the adjoining land-owners did their yearly rifle sight in, and bait dump, getting ready for the rifle season. Opening day he walks in to the bait, that had been there for one week, at 2 pm and gets dumped from 20 yards with a rifle. Long story I know, but I hunted this deer for a span of 3 seasons, to have him killed in a week by a bait. Very disappointing. The positive side (if there is one) I did get to hold and score this rack, although I can’t explain how it made me feel.

13 typical points, 16 3/8 inside spread, gross 171 2/8.

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Ok ill go “there” To me baiting is no different than planting a food plot

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From a bow hunters point of view, there is a huge difference between getting deer into a 10,20,30 acre food plot and getting one on a 10 square foot bait pile 15 yards from a stand. I think it should be legal on private property but not on public land.