Thought on QDM

Almost every time i go hunting i see more does then bucks, especially BIG BUCKS. I have a prime example: My uncle a couple years ago (07′) goes out gun hunting on opening morning and sees (14) does and fawns. After he passes on all of them he shoots the first little 6 pt buck that he sees. To me that doesn’t make any sense? Now, if he saw (14) little bucks running around and only 1 doe i would say “shoot one of the little bucks, it doesn’t make sense to shoot the only doe!” That’s the beauty of QDM…. you let the deer dictate what should and shouldn’t be harvested.

One last thing. This is for the hunters who don’t see BIG BUCKS.

I see them all the time… they’re the spikes, forks, and little 6’s & 8’s in the back of a guys truck…. harvested 2-4 yrs too early.

Shoot a doe and let the little guys grow. all it takes is 2-3 years of QDM to make a difference in the bucks and does that will be running around.

I agree with your thinking. I have no problem shooting a doe instead of a little buck. Heck, I’m beginning to like the taste of buck-tag soup. I bring a camera with me to the stand now. I can practice “catch and release” with that.

I also like your thinking

But I bet this gets ugly

I hear what your saying Gobbler. What you described is “reverse” QDM. I can honestly say, from a young age, I was under the impression… saying you got “a Buck” was better than saying you got a doe. I guess there are many types of hunters, meat hunters for example will shoot the first deer that comes along that will put some meat in the freezer. Then there are the Buck hunters, they will (either by force, only a buck tag or by nature) will shoot the first legal buck they see, minimum antler on up. Then there is the trophy hunter… this is where it gets really gray, one guys trophy is a basket 6 pointer and the next is a 130″ + on up. Nobody can really tell somebody else what their goals should be. That is why I believe, open access to public and private land will continue to diminish, as land is bought up and leased, by individuals or groups, who want to promote QDM. I do agree, if you could get everybody on the same page, places like Buffalo county, would become more the norm. I had a conversation with some fellow hunters on the exact scenario of Buffalo county. I told them, we could have our own area right here like that… they said “NO WAY” I said yes way. I asked them if they would go to Buffalo County, would they shoot the first small 8 pointer that walked by ??? Most replied, NO WAY, I wouldn’t pay that much to shoot a smaller deer, I know there are monsters there. I then asked them, then why do you shoot the first small 8 that walks by here ??? You could see the light go on, in a couple minds, a couple still didn’t get it. I explained, if you had the same mentality here, sure for 2 to 3 years, you might have to eat your tag, but after that… “Welcome to your own Buffalo County” I guess it will be small steps, but with each hunter that starts to practice, it’s a step closer. OK I am off my soap box…

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I also like your thinking

But I bet this gets ugly

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I can handle that part……..

I whole heartedly believe in QDM. Problem for me is I have hunters all around with different perspectives and goals. Bottom line is shooting what you are happy with.
I think there is some sort of mentality in alot of deer camps/parties that base sucsess on “shooting a buck” no matter what size, as if that is some feat. I personally believe shooting a 1 1/2 -2 1/2 year old buck is much easier than shooting a mature doe during the breeding period.
Its a personal choice and unless you have hundreds of acres to manage you really even start have any QDM to speak of. The older the buck the more they range.
To be clear though, I am a 100% 3 1/2 year old minimum hunter but am aware most of the smaller bucks I pass up will most likely get blasted although I always hope some will make it through for the next year.

Big G-
The last part of your writing is so true. Most people have no idea what potential their area has. It can take alot of time and effort to have a good one walk by. Most of the good ones I see do not live where I hunt but they will roam into the area wrapping up on the breeding season, wandering around their outmost comfort zone. Takes ALOT of time to wait that out.

I can see the benefits back home. Lots more guys practicing selective harvest than ever before. Sure, there are still plenty of really nice 2.5 year old deer shot, but they are seeing more and more trophy class animals also. These guys are dealing on a much bigger scale than many around here. We are talking thousands of acres owned by one individual. However, the same concepts apply. Keep you buck to doe ratio in check. Keep the big boys close by providing the proper nutrients and safe habitat.

So true Eric. I know when I went to Montana…(the rancher had 17,000 acres) I passed anywhere from 2-8 bucks a night, everything from 4pt-decent 10 pointers, because I “knew” there were bigger deer, I saw them everynight Thats the same mentality I use here at home, wherever I hunt… minus seeing half a dozen Bucks everytime out… I do believe, as more and more people come onboard, it can happen here. Like you said Eric, your fear when you leave a smaller buck walk of “I don’t shoot it, the next guy will”, is instilled in alot of minds and until that changes, it will be tiny steps. You made the step and eventually more will follow. I do believe we will see more Buffalo Countys…. by that I mean, bought up or leased by groups to practice QDM. It will be a shame, as hunting opportunitys will diminish, but will be reality.

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Shoot a doe and let the little guys grow. all it takes is 2-3 years of QDM to make a difference in the bucks and does that will be running around.

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x2 it will definatelty grow on ya

Kill’m all!!! ………………………………I’m kidding(dont send me a “notice”) QDM for Life!!

I’ve given up! I wait it out while everybody fills thier meat poles around me with immature bucks. Maybe that’s why I haven’t seen a shooter and I’ve missed only 6 days since archery opener.

Where I hunt it is a heated bar room topic, some guys just will not get on board, some guys are ready to their neighbors, I will practice it forever but there are cases where you are just gonna have to do the best with what you have

I saw a similar posting on the iowaoutdoors.org website and this went on for 11 pages!! Hopefully most guys here on are board with QDM. No sense in taking smaller bucks. If you want the meat, shoot a doe.
My buddy started practicing QDM 3 years ago and you can already see the improvements in bucks being taken. I should post pictures to prove it. He owns 240 acres and all but one neighbor are also participating in QDM.
There is another hunting party about two miles away that owns 800 acres. There theory is if your going to shoot it, you need to mount it. We saw 6 bucks at the taxidermist last weekend they shot and they were all giants. 150+. QDM does work. You also need to figure what age animal is best suited to be harvested for the amount of land you manage. If you only own 40 acres, than a 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 year old buck should be right, unless your neighbors practice QDM. If you own 160 acres, you should be able to let the 1 1/2, 2 1/2, and maybe 3 1/2 area go to grow bigger.
I don’t understand why people get so pissed off at this subject. If you hunting state land, than blast whatever you want.
Missouri has an 8pt or larger minimum harvest. MN still has not caught onto this, except for a few of the state parks.
my two cents.

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I personally believe shooting a 1 1/2 -2 1/2 year old buck is much easier than shooting a mature doe during the breeding period.

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I agree with this 100%. I got cocky this year and guaranteed two people who wanted venison that I could shoot them a couple does in the managed area I gun hunt. I hunted hard for six days and never shot a doe. I passed up a mature doe at first light opening morning because it was going to be 70 degrees and I didn’t want to waste a day of hunting taking care of a deer in that heat. After, that I passed up 15 young bucks, shot a mature buck, and then passed up 3 more young bucks and 2 mature bucks without seeing another doe within range.

During the rut, bucks are definitely easier to shot than does.

Firm believer here…and not only am I now a believer, but I have “converted” both my brother and father now as well. We are very fortunate to have hunted the same peice of land for over 20 years and with minimal hunting pressure we are allowed to practice QDM. If they aren’t mature we don’t even think about a shot…letting the small ones grow has paid real dividends over the past 6 years in particular. Results speak for themselves. 6 mature buck taken in the last 6 years ranging from 130″ class bucks all the way to 165″+ brute my brother took in 2006. We took 5 deer this year with 3 mature does and a single fawn. My dad has always been a good shot and has laid stake to the ‘dead eye’ award…this year 3 shots…3 ultra clean kills. The picture below was his 50th deer in 37 years of hunting this property…while not a monster by any means it is the definition of quality.

SunnyD-where do you guys hunt? We are near parkers prairie. have you thought of joining a QDM chapter? I just joined this one:
http://p2wwhitetails.com/index_files/Page435.htm

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Shoot a doe and let the little guys grow. all it takes is 2-3 years of QDM to make a difference in the bucks and does that will be running around.

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I completely agree. If you simply want meat, shoot a doe. There are some guys out there (usually old timers) that just have a mentality that they have to shoot a buck.

Here are two bucks that have been taken in the area (1 square mile) that includes our farm. The 156″er was taken on our farm late last year, the monster was taken a 1/4 mile away last weekend. There are three other deer that are over 170″ on the farm/area somewhere. Haven’t been seen or shot yet this year. Hopefully dad will get a crack at one this year.

This would not be possible if QDM was not practiced by us and our neighbors. I know, my MN deer camp is more than disappointing because little 100″ and smaller deer are taken readily.

I myself favor harvesting older animals
I have always said, if an animal comes along and gets you all jacked and pumped take it, this is your deer be it a doe, younger buck or a monster.

I think some of the obstacles or reasons that dictate the options are, the amount of time one has to be able to hunt, the property or area that they are able to hunt on and what this property is capable of holding for deer by numbers of animals and age. For some that love to hunt the land they have available may be limited to the numbers of deer and choices running by the stand, if limited he or she may feel that just having the opportunity to harvest whatever walks by is a challenge in itself and may be ten times more rewarding as an accomplishment and putting food in the freezer then you or I that has more time and the availability to hunt on some property that carries higher numbers and or age.

Another trait amongst us hunters is the fact for some of us we continue to put the pressure on ourselves by raising our bar to say, we try every year to shoot something a little bigger or older or something that has special character. As we do this sometimes when discussing the level that we are at and our goals in public and or on a website as this one we forget that there was a day that a younger six or eight was our goal and challenge, thus making some folks feel belittled or worthless because they shot something young. This is when the heated discussion starts to surface, and sometimes it’s non- intentional.

Here again I state if the animal in front of you gets you pumped and excited take it, this is your moment and your hunt, no matter what age or size it is. I will always congratulate you.

Here in the Central Wisconsin area, the land I spent 90% of my years hunting on is a mix of swamp land, tall dry grass, pines, food plots and scattered oak with water everywhere thus not a lot of needed travel areas as in farmland or bluffs. We have been working with QDM here for years on the property I hunt on, some of the neighbors also are involved. Hunting can be tough here and for the most part to shoot a big old mature buck it ends up being a seasonal process versus a week or two.

Even with promoting the practice 95% of the bucks around here will drop at the age of 2.5 years the other 5 % will make it to 3.5 years and up. We have managed to have a few bucks getting to the 3.5, 4.5 and one at 6.5 in this area. And with being able to keep picture data on the progression of some of these bucks, some of the folks have now seen the increase in mass gained from hitting 3.5 and how some of the bucks exploded in mass and height at 4.5 so for some of folks here in the area trying to hold out and trying to reason with the age thing, they now have recognized what can actually happen in the given area if more of these buck trickle into the older ages and how exciting their racks can get to be. There will always be folks harvesting the 2.5s and younger because that’s their satisfactions and goals but if a few make it thru to the next year due to showing folks what an extra year or two can do then it was worth the effort.

Good Luck to All

Jeff

I agree with and practice QDM. Where I hunt they have been practing it for about 2-3 years we can already see the difference. I don’t have my own land yet so I can’t say alot about what others are doing on their land.

People have to remember that its still just deer hunting. People that have been neighbors for 20-40 years getting mad at each other because they shot a little buck or fawn. Or won’t let them cross their land to get to a piece of their own property.

Just remember what is important getting together with family and friends. Shooting the [censored] and having a few and creating new memories or stories that will be told for years to come.

Great points Jeff. While QDM works for some in certain areas, it’s not the end all. I believe in it and I support it. Now, getting my old man to agree is a whole nother thing. I’ve slowly been working on him for the last few years. He’s a meat hunter, yet still wants that 100″ buck. Give me a couple more years, I’ll have him converted.

QDM works….

I’m afraid to say anymore.

Don’t worry, I already poked Mike this morning. He’s still probably trying to write a response to my PM.

I’ve brought up this topic the last 2 years at our deer camp, and have been shot down immediately. I know a couple of the neighbors who only own 40 acre pieces are already passing small bucks. Our group owns 340 and I can’t get anyone on board. I’m the only one who bow hunts this property, and with a bow I’ve passed everything, only harvesting a couple mature does. But when rifle season comes around, “if it’s brown, it’s down.” I love the tradition, the bs, the , and the full freezer after the season. But it’d sure be nice to get some nicer bucks on the property. Everyone stills seems to have the mentality that if you pass a small buck, you might not get another chance. I don’t understand that part…we’re in a management area, and don’t have any trouble filling out. They tell me that deer hunting is supposed to be fun, and shooting deer (no matter the size) is fun. I partially agree, but shooting BIG deer would be a lot more fun. I don’t own the property (owned by my dad, and a couple uncles) so I don’t have a lot of say. I guess all I can do is keep bringing it up, and hope they finally see the light.

Budaman, you said the magic words….Bowhunter…. From my experience and talking with others, Hunters who have bowhunted any amount of time, will almost always take to some form of QDM, quite readily, as opposed to the guys who have 2-4 days to hunt with rifle or shotgun. Also my belief is, with bowhunting, the encounter is much more intimate, you sometimes watch a deer for an hour and can make a calculated decision on whether to harvest. With a rifle or shotgun, typically if you can see it, you can shoot it almost immediately. Just more thoughts from me.

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I don’t own the property (owned by my dad, and a couple uncles) so I don’t have a lot of say. I guess all I can do is keep bringing it up, and hope they finally see the light.

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That’s all you can do. Like I said before, it seems to be that old boy mentality. My grandpa is the same way. He kills a 90″ – 110″ buck every year. Throws the antlers in a pile in the garage. He couldn’t care less, he just thinks he needs to shoot a buck. Apparently does are an inferior meat.

Feel free to use my success stories from our land or others on here to prove your point. Use these pics and ask them, which one would they rather shoot?

Like alot of people I understand and Like the Idea of QDM. It is for this reason that I look forward to buying land someday soon. Hopefully near neighbor’s who also understand and pratice QDM. Currently I hunt with a group of 6 hunters on leased potlatch land. Most of this group are what I would call meat hunters. I’m not sure if tring to start a QDM plan is a option at this time. With our land being surronded on all four sides by State and County land ( which is currently hunted by several parties ) The ? I have for those who currently pratice QDM is are they shooting enough Does each season to keep the #’s down and to prevent inbreeding. I know a few groups who somewhat pratice QDM but do not shoot any Does. The size of the racks they see do not seem right given pratice and how many does they have in the area. My thoughts are that there are way to many does and they are really getting inbreed. I think the buck are also getting really run down from all the does they have to tend to and go into winter in reaqlly poor shape and may not be making it thru a bad winter. I do believ there is a place for the so called meat hunters out there. I believe if everyone praticed and only wanted to shoot big bucks that the population would get way out of wack in a few short years. and inbreeding and sickness would really start to effect the overall reason of QDM. Just my $.02 worth on the subject.

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The ? I have for those who currently pratice QDM is are they shooting enough Does each season to keep the #’s down and to prevent inbreeding.

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Unless I am wrong: The defination of QDM includes harvesting does to get the buck:doe ratio a close to 1:1 as we can.

That’s a QDM rule that we follow. In Iowa, if you draw a buck tag, you are required to buy a doe tag as well. Is probably just a money thing, but I like the idea.

I think what tool has helped our group in which all have different levels of goals is “the cameras”. Some have become hooked with getting cool pictures, with that we can look at the pics and began to see the changes in a certain buck with his mass and height and body weight as he goes from a 2.5 year old to a 3.5, it seems that this starts to get everyone wanting to see the pictures of what’s out there in the woods, then you hear the wow factor kick in when someone brings in a picture of the same buck that made it to 4.5 years of age and the buck starts to explode in rack growth and body size. This has really got some pumped.

When reviewing all the pictures you look for detail something that stands out and then the folks are able to watch for certain details as the buck is working his way thru under the stand. The group has really got involved finding detail and then naming the certain buck – the naming part is nice it may seem stupid to some folks but if you’re in a conversation with others in your group or the adjoining neighbors, it’s easier to picture in your mind who Dozer is versus that big 8 pt you know amongst other 8s , so now all the folks in the group can immediately identify in their mind who you are referring to, and this just adds more excitement to the hunt.

Good Luck and I hope this helps some

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The ? I have for those who currently pratice QDM is are they shooting enough Does each season to keep the #’s down and to prevent inbreeding.

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Unless I am wrong: The defination of QDM includes harvesting does to get the buck:doe ratio a close to 1:1 as we can.

That’s a QDM rule that we follow. In Iowa, if you draw a buck tag, you are required to buy a doe tag as well. Is probably just a money thing, but I like the idea.

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We take a certain % of doe’s every year.

Welcome to Europe to the select few who have access to prime private property. The area we hunt by Itasca state park has some nice bucks but you dont hold out for trophys only or does. I had a doe permit so I took my doe my deer for the year. The day before I watched a 130-140 class buck less than a half mile from my stand, there are bigger deer in the area by why hold out for this guy if a smaller 8 had come by he would have gone on the meat pole too you can not eat antlers size does not matter. My thinking was if the big one that we saw on Friday had come by my stand I may have passed so he could have passed his genes along once the breeding had begun in our area, which is finally going on now. If you shoot a big deer good for you I hpoe it makes you happy I used to hunt zone 3 unit 341 and 343 and it makes me sick how the state has buckled to a select few butt heads who are trying to impose their crap on the rest of the deer hunters in this state time to fire Lou and run Micheal Seive and the rest of the bluffland whitetails organization out of here and return zone 3 to bucks ony for nine consecutive days with no antler point restrictions and the second season to 7 days and if you have doe permit you can only shoot a doe.