WI Deer numbers

  • darin_rs
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Posts: 550
    #200085

    This came upin a different post and thought I would see where it goes from here. I know a lot of guys had a bad season this year in WI for gun season. Although I know there are factors involved in this, I think the heard is way down, especially in certain areas. I hunt in south east WI and we did not shoot one deer between the three of us. We did see deer, but not the numbers we normally do. I think we saw 12 does between us and at least half of those were yearlings.

    I think the DNR numbers are a little high, but some areas are on while others are way low. I think the unlimited EAB stickers in our area is starting to catch up as there was next to no shooting either weekend by us and many of the area landowners drive their lands.

    Seams like each year we are seeing less and less, what is what the DNR is looking for, but when does it end? I know that west of Madison in the Mt Horeb area, it is worse than we have it.

    When does it end
    What are your thoughts on this?

    Darin

    riveratt
    Central Wisconsin US-of-A
    Posts: 1464
    #44747

    I suspect in the CWD zones the numbers are likely lower. In the rest of the state however I feel they are more static than not. For several years it seems the kill was higher than the prior year. Yet that simply isn’t going to continue, there will be down years. Down years doesn’t mean the herd is low necessarily though. This years hunt was a week later than normal and that likely makes an impact. It is possible that the number of hunters also was lower, I don’t know for sure. Maybe more people chose to hold out for a nicer buck while others only needed one deer if they had some left from a better harvest from last year.

    Personally I think too many people get too caught up in the bottom line from year to year. There are so many factors that come into play that the bottom line alone doesn’t tell the story. And again it’s the same thing we hear every year, “The DNR is way off on the herd size…”. Maybe they are but Wisconsin must have a more accurate way to measure the herd as many other states are adopting our SAK methodology.

    #44748

    I hunt NW Wisconsin for the gun season, and the general consise was that numbers were down in my area. According to the local registration station, license sales in the area were up 18% but deer numbers were down by 27% as of November 30th.

    Granted some guys don’t register their deer until the last day of the season on their way home, but I feel that these numbers are simply too large to ignore.

    Speaking with alot of landowners in the area, it appears that are doe population is struggling. I don’t know if the early and late season doe harvests the past few years have any affect on this, but it will be interesting to see what the DNR comes up with next year…

    darin_rs
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Posts: 550
    #44749

    I here you on this about overall numbers outside of the management units, as well as the time of year. By us though, I know for a fact the timing was not the issue. I also know deer numbers are cyclic due to environmental factors.

    My question is though, how long do they continue with the unlimited doe and buck tags before they are happy?

    riveratt
    Central Wisconsin US-of-A
    Posts: 1464
    #44752

    How long? I imagine until the hunters voices are louder than the insurance companies. I have to think those two groups are the largest single factors the DNR takes into consideration.

    ragerunner
    Winona, MN
    Posts: 699
    #44753

    This is my 5th year hunting in Buffalo Co and by far my party’s worst. I saw 5 bucks and only 1 doe, which is very abnormal. We normally shoot 3 or 4 does, yet only saw 3 the entire season. One guy never even saw a deer. Very scary, if you ask me.

    barebackjack
    New Prague, MN.
    Posts: 1023
    #44755

    It will end when WI hunters keep seeing these “low numbers” and go back to the old way of hunting and not overharvesting. Even if a person can eat 5 deer, does it make sense to do that year after year or does it make more sense to maybe shoot one or two big ones and then know that next year there will be more. The DNR isnt going to change anything about their agenda, the insurance companies have them in their pocket IMO. I say the fate of the numbers is up to the hunters, there appears to be more hunters out there for meat than trophy. What kills me about the whole thing is how they choose your hunt for you with this EAB garbage, thats what needs to be done away with.

    darin_rs
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Posts: 550
    #44757

    I agree with you on this. I know we will more than likely not shoot any more does this year. I only shot one last year because I had a wounded one walk by. I do hope that people will start thinking with high numbers equal success. I think it will be tough for a while, but I am hopeful for the future.

    kevinbrantner
    West Central Wisconsin
    Posts: 244
    #44758

    My brother-in-law hunts by Grantsberg. He says there use to be lots of deer there and now they hardly see any. I live in Pepin County and he said we will eventually have the same problem here if the DNR keeps doing things the way they are. I guess time will tell. I’m hoping it’s like a 401K where it goes in cycles and we are just having a down year. Hopefully it will all balance out over time. Who knows…

    One thing I do believe is the DNR should change the way the zones are set up. We are in the same zone as Buffalo county and I know for a fact their deer numbers are a lot different than ours. I think it’s about time we get seperated from them so they can micro-manage by county and not throw everyone into one pot so one county isn’t affected while others suffer.

    BradPitt
    Cawford Cty, WI
    Posts: 32
    #44761

    I bowhunt Crawford County which was EAB this year. I’d say I’m pretty hardcore when it comes to bowhunting. I saw my first doe from the stand on the last day of the EAB season in October. Prior to that-nothing but little bucks. I then went until 11/7 before seeing my next doe. My 5 trail cams picked up more bucks than does, including 68 of a 21/2 year old 10 point. I don’t beleive the EAB program was needed, and I’d like to see deer numbers grow. I then gun hunt in Rusk Co. Seen more deer than last year, and way more sign. Our party of nine shot 4 deer. I took a nice 9 point. I believe the difference from 07′ would be the fact we didn’t see the wolves. I’m hoping both my areas won’t be EAB next year, and I agree with the latest statement from the DNR-they may have overestimated the herd. I have no degree, and no science to back my next statement, but after hearing from several friends and family around unit 74B-There ain’t that many deer boys-not like the “scinece” says.

    mikemac10
    Eau Claire, WI
    Posts: 52
    #44764

    I hunt between eau claire and mondovi, which is EAB, I put a ton of hours in a treestand this year and saw a handfull of small bucks and maybe 6 or 8 does all season, compared to the last couple years where I saw at least 20 different bucks and probably 35-40 does. One property I hunt I only saw 5 different deer total all of bow and gun season, 2 were does. Oddly enough one of my spots accross the highway not in EAB the only 2 times I hunted I saw over 20 does.

    #44765

    In a perfect world, I would love to see the DNR go back to a quality vs. quantity approach.Between the early and late season firearms hunts for does, the non-quota areas, EAB units, and regualar seasons, I feel that there is too large of an emphasis being put on shooting multiple deer.

    sipple31
    West Central Sconni
    Posts: 415
    #44775

    I think it’s entirely possible…. I don’t think there is any reason what-so-ever (besides maybe the insurance companies breathing down their necks) to be having two Zone-T’s, EAB, and unlimited bonus tags in many areas of WI.
    Totally bogus in my opinion.

    zimmy101
    Hager City Wisconsin
    Posts: 946
    #44782

    Interesting read right from the Wis. DNR website…..

    Hunters register 276,985 deer in November hunt hunt

    News Release Published: December 2, 2008 by the Central Office

    Contact(s): Keith Warnke (608) 264-6023

    MADISON – A call-around count of deer registration stations across Wisconsin conducted by Department of Natural Resources staff has yielded a preliminary kill tally for the just-ended 9-day November gun deer hunt of 276,985.

    While the call-in tally appears to be down in parts of the state, this number is preliminary and is expected to change before a final report is published in late winter. It does not include harvest information from the archery, October antlerless deer gun hunt, muzzleloader, December antlerless deer gun hunt or late archery seasons.

    A table of county by county harvest broken down by DNR Region http://dnr.wi.gov/org/caer/ce/news/pdf/2008_9_day_table.pdf

    [PDF 81 KB], with comparison to the 2007 preliminary harvest is available on the DNR Web site.

    “Hunters have been doing a good job, and deer populations may be moving toward healthy goals,” said Keith Warnke, DNR big game biologist. “Their commitment and involvement are having a positive effect and will help to ensure a healthy deer herd in the future for them and for a younger generation of hunters who are coming up through the ranks.”

    “We still need to look at all the numbers from all deer seasons before we can say anything for sure,” said Warnke, “but it looks like our estimates of winter mortality and fawn production may be off, which if it proves true, would lead to over estimation of the pre-hunt population.

    “Preliminary counts seem to indicate a lower than predicted deer population. That may indicate that deer populations could be moving toward healthy population goals.”

    Many factors could have impacted this year’s hunt say wildlife managers including winter conditions lasting longer into spring than estimated and a late, cool spring which caused lower fawn production than average. Fawn production statewide was the lowest it has been in 15 years. The deer season was also quite late, past the rut in most parts of the state, meaning deer were not moving as much as hunters might have hoped.

    Hunters across the state have commented that there appeared to be fewer deer in the woods than could be expected from prehunt population predictions. While this comment was common, registrations in the DNR’s South Central Region actually increased 3 percent over last year and the Southeast region held pretty steady, dropping about 4 percent.

    The DNR’s West Central Region and Northeast Regions are coming off of several years of herd reduction and earn-a-buck season structures designed to lower numbers to healthy populations. The preliminary results would seem to indicate that the strategies are working, say wildlife managers.

    “In the final analysis, once all the numbers are in, it is possible that there will be fewer herd control and earn-a-buck units in the coming season,” Warnke said.

    As happens every year, department wildlife managers and scientists will be closely analyzing this year’s hunt data and making any necessary adjustments for 2009 seasons. Wildlife managers will be examining a number of factors including age and sex structure of the harvest, expected over winter mortality, and fawn production rates. A recent audit by national experts indicated Wisconsin’s deer population prediction method is among the best in North America.

    “It is our job to manage this icon of Wisconsin wildlife in a manner consistent with our responsibility to protect and sustain our wildlife resources and traditions and we take that responsibility very seriously,” said Warnke. “We use the most accurate data available to manage deer. We constantly strive to balance a healthy and sustainable herd with public opportunities for a safe, productive and enjoyable hunt.”

    swimingjig
    Waumandee, WI
    Posts: 695
    #44787

    Very good read Thank You. I hunt in a EAB area and when it first started I hated it, but we didn’t have a say in it. (Yes I did go to the meetings and we seriously had no say in it.) When Sept. rolled around we got our bows out and whacked a doe as soon as we could so that way we could shoot a buck. So there goes 5-8 does. Ok well come Oct. the first T-Zone is here now it’s time for the friends and family that strictly gun hunt to harvest there does so they are set for gun hunting. There goes 3-5 more does. So now not only are we down 8-13 does for the following year we are out 12-25 fawns the following year. I can not remember when EAB started but if you do that for 5-6 years on about 250 acres of woods and the land owners all around you are doing the same thing it is pretty easy to figure out why hunting is getting tough. There was a post yesterday and people were saying that the reason people aren’t seeing deer is because they are lazy and don’t go too far from the truck, well I am telling you that’s not our problem. We have some deer around but we are being very careful how we harvest them from here on out.

    Anonymous
    Guest
    Posts:
    #44795

    I haven’t hunted in WI, and don’t know the zones, etc. BUT what makes sense to me was the CDW scare a couple years back…I remember the DNR was wiping them out in certain areas…i could see low #’s correlating in the those portions of WI. food for thought.

    kevinbrantner
    West Central Wisconsin
    Posts: 244
    #44798

    I’m wondering what the DNR will do when the herd is at a “healthy” level and everyone gets so disgusted because they aren’t seeing any deer and decide to quit buying a license… Will the insurance companies pick up the slack?

    phishirman
    Madison, WI
    Posts: 1090
    #44802

    the sad thing is, in many areas of the CWD units, they implemented sharpshooting to bring the numbers down. The DNR had a hard time getting permission from landowners so they turned to public land. I had 2 really good spots (both in the eradication zone) of public that were loaded with deer but they’ve been completely wiped out. Makes it frustrating when you spend your hard earned cash on a license, to hunt something that just doesn’t exist

    darin_rs
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Posts: 550
    #44817

    We had six cameras out on our property for about eight weeks. We had a great doe buck ratio, around 5 bucks per doe. Problem is hard to tell how many of those does were repeats. Good for genetics and such, but makes for a long hunt. These numbers have been dropping every year though. Five years ago the numbers were insane. We saw tons of deer and there was shooting all around to match. Every year it has been getting worse, This year we would go up to a few hours between shots we could hear, even on opening day. I am sure we will start adjusting what we will take on a yearly basis, maybe two does in place of 3, or 4.

    Darin

    witte
    West Salem, WI
    Posts: 428
    #44833

    The DNR says that there are areas that might not be EAB next year because populations are at their “goals” but they still have all of us programmed to shoot does this year to prequalify for EAB next year. Still accomplishing their goals…shoot the doe before she has fawns and that 1 deer is 3.

    Witte

    mossboss
    La Crescent, MN
    Posts: 2792
    #44834

    Quote:


    The DNR says that there are areas that might not be EAB next year because populations are at their “goals” but they still have all of us programmed to shoot does this year to prequalify for EAB next year. Still accomplishing their goals…shoot the doe before she has fawns and that 1 deer is 3.

    Witte


    Their “goals” are the whole problem.

    #44845

    The real question is when they will finally pull their head out of their and seek input from people who actually have first hand knowledge of the deer population???

    Between the amount of time we spend in the woods each year, the aid of scouting cameras, and general sightings in our area during the offseason, you would think that they would start listening to the sportsman who pursue these deer…not the guy who looks from the helicopter, the insurance companies, or other outside influences.

    One of these days, there gonna really screw things up IMO. You would think that most people would learn from their mistakes, but these guys just keep raising the bar.

    jeff_jensen
    cassville ,wis
    Posts: 3053
    #44847

    It seems that numbers were down in sw.Wisc also.
    The DNR has gotten what they want for herd control with eab,t-zones,cwd control etc. Now the main question is, what will they do in the future to regulate a healthy herd?

    Eab in my opinion,as stated by others too, didn’t do any favors for the overall future of the sport. Too many guys with the “brown it’s down” philosophy. The DNR force fed these regs and in turn made alot of hunters and our sport look like a kill everything machine. As hunters it’s important that we stick up for our rights but with the ridiculous EAB regs it makes a concerned, passionate group look like a bunch of slob hunters. Bad press,bad feed back and bad business! Just an opinion…..

    bret_clark
    Sparta, WI
    Posts: 9362
    #44854

    I am sick and tired of the DNR deer management group pounding sand up my

    They have done nothing but wipe out what use to be a great herd of animals bringing revenue into Wisconsin. When you drive around 4 nights in the Chequamegon National forest and not see a deer along the road, there is something wrong. Not to mention the numerous hours spent and miles walked in the woods to only see 2 deer……that blows. I couldn’t pull the trigger when I did finally see a deer feeling sorry for the so called herd.

    After listening to a ton of people complaining and more than likely not making a trip back for some time to come, I feel sorry for the resort owners and bars trying to make a living in the great North woods.

    I hope the DNR is proud of themselves

    OK….now you dudes can bash me but I’m done with the post. This made me feel better but not as good as the thank you letter I sent to Madison

    Looks like maybe Wyoming for me next year

    lick
    Posts: 6443
    #44858

    bret bret

    Steve Plantz
    SE MN
    Posts: 12240
    #44887

    Quote:


    Between the amount of time we spend in the woods each year, the aid of scouting cameras, and general sightings in our area during the offseason, you would think that they would start listening to the sportsman who pursue these deer… not the guy who looks from the helicopter


    I do not hunt in WI so I can not speak for the number of deer in WI, I hunt in MN. For the last couple of years now I hear hunters from MN & WI say that deer numbers are down, just because you do not see deer does not mean they are not there. The last two years I have not seen as many deer while hunting either but I have got lots of pics from my trail cam at night more than day light hours.

    How do you effectively count the number of deer in an area from “the amount of time we spend in the woods each year, the aid of scouting cameras, and general sightings in our area during the offseason” Can you tell me the number of deer in your area?

    The only way that I know of to effectively count the number of deer in a herd is from a helicopter.

    swimingjig
    Waumandee, WI
    Posts: 695
    #44890

    I can’t give you an exact number of how many deer are in my hunting area, but I can give you a lot more usefull information then some guy that goes overhead in a plane or helicopter a few times a year. I see about 250 acres of fields in front of my house everyday and believe me I watch closely. Does anybody know what time of the year they go in the sky to get these numbers? Is it dureing the winter when they are hearded up? I hope not. Can’t be dureing the summer because they wouldn’t be able to see much.

    Steve Plantz
    SE MN
    Posts: 12240
    #44891

    Quote:


    Does anybody know what time of the year they go in the sky to get these numbers? Is it dureing the winter when they are hearded up? I hope not.


    I would assume that would be the best time to do it, why would you hope that is not when they do it?

    #44892

    Quote:


    How do you effectively count the number of deer in an area from “the amount of time we spend in the woods each year, the aid of scouting cameras, and general sightings in our area during the offseason” Can you tell me the number of deer in your area?


    Your right on that…I cannot tell you exactly how many deer are in my area, and I think that would be a pretty tough task for the average hunter to accurately measure.

    What I can tell you is that I spend ALOT of time studying the deer in the area I hunt, whether it be placing out scouting cameras, glassing fields, speaking to other landowners, and spending time in the field hunting.

    Based on this, I would like to think that I have a pretty good measure on the overall health of the herd in my area from year to year, much better than a guy in a helicopter that spends a couple days a year surveying the area…and from my obervations as well as numerous other landowners who spend alot of time learning the local herd, the deer numbers are down in my area.

    My point is our voices need to be heard and we need to provide input. The methods that are currently being used are not working IMO.

    Steve Plantz
    SE MN
    Posts: 12240
    #44894

    Quote:


    My point is our voices need to be heard and we need to provide input.


    I can definitely agree with you on that.

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