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Blue, if you wanna cry about fishing, go to the other site. This is a HUNTING site.
Seriously though,I think the posters reasoning/thinking behind it is: Hit ’em where it hurts.
Iowa is a big attraction for hunters. On the flip side Minnesotat is a big attraction to Fisherman. Just taking a guess, but this is the way I saw it.
Lip, you took the words out of my mouth, but shouldn’t you be in ND or something
I can see raising Both Wisc. and Minn. out of state hunting liscenses. I think what would help both states in the long run is if the size of the buck which was harvested were only bigger bucks. If the size of the bucks statewide then came up to nice shooters then out of staters would want to pay a higher price to harvest one, Thats what iowa does. Im not sticking up for eigther state this is just what I see. You guys up there know your herds more then we do down here and the way Iowa runs thier deer program it does work for the residents here.
It sounds like a mutual agreed program from both the hunters and the dnr. If there were certain minimums on bucks that would increase thier rack sizes but then you’d have the dnr pulling thier hair out listening to guys who truthfully thought thier buck was big enough to harvest, a dnr and hunters nightmare if you ask me. Theres no minimum here on size but theres not as many hunters here eigther so with the statewide quotas alot of mature bucks make it until next year but it also takes discetion from hunters too.
Earn a buck isn’t the way to go or is a minimum rack size, people hunt for fun and with too many regulations that just turns people away and burns people out. I know since everbodys been talking about this subject the last 3 years I’ll bet some guys are now a decent shooter only for them or take a doe. Its sounds like theres a decent doe population in both states its just that theres not enough big shooters avilable statewide. Im not one for many rules and complicated regulations at all and the less of those the better. I guess it all comes down to hunters discretion and let the bucks breed and live for awhile after a guys shot a couple smaller ones, a guy can’t always put a trophy on the mantle every year but he’d have a better chance at getting one next if he decided on a minimum rack size and too settle for a doe.
After reading everyone’s posts and simply revisiting my thoughts, I will say I think I agree with most of you. I have always been one that feels that the least amount of government or rules is the best government. With that in mind, I would be as happy as I could be if they simply moved the gun season back further. I would even be pleased if they moved it up a bit. The first week of November is about the worst possible time to have it in my opinion. Raise the fees somewhere……whether it is fishing or hunting makes no difference to me. Move the gun season out the most vulnerable time in a buck’s life and see where it takes us. MN still has good deer, I just wish I could see its potential reached!
by no means am i an expert on QDM. but in the past 3 years i have personally had the best success in my hunting career in MN. I have spent countless hours in a tree stand letting small buck after small buck walk by while waiting for MR BIG.
this year i spent at least an hour at a local registration station both Sat/Sun of opening weekend talking w/ a friend of mine who works there and it was one of the saddest things i have ever experienced. not only did people have deer coming in-n-out of there but, i would guess that of the 40-50 deer that i saw in both days, 60%of them were 1.5 yr old bucks. 25-30 of the deer were small bucks. of the other 25-30 there were 2 bucks that were 2.5 and i didn’t see one buck that was older.
this tells me something when people say “we just don’t get big racked deer in our area” or “i’m a meat hunter”. which i don’t have a problem w/ anyone shooting a small buck. it just irritates me when i hear hunters make these comments. oh, and let’s not forget the classic “where are all the big bucks at?” that’s when i tell the 4 guys that pull up w/ 3 small 6 pts. and a button buck to look in the back of there truck. there’s 4 right there 3-4 years from now.
I could write about “Managing Deer” deer all day but it really doesn’t pay. regardless of what i do or say the 1-2 weekend a year hunter is going to shoot the 1st deer or small buck that walks by. he/she is more then likely not going to take a picture w/it and when the rack gets cut off(if they do cut it off) it will lay on a shelf in the garage or get thrown away after time because it doesn’t have an appreciation behind it.
like i stated before… you want to know where all of MN’s big bucks are??? go to a registration station and watch for an hour or 2 on Gun Opener. you will see all the “what could’ve been MONSTERS” you can imagine and unless the MN DNR was managing for BIG RACKED BUCKS, this trend will continue.
My hat is off to other states that have a better mature buck population. the hunters in those states seem to have a better understanding of what it takes to put the odds in there favor of harvesting trophy animals regardless of Non-Resident Lic. costs
Some of you may not know that Mr. Sieve is a member of Bluffland Whitetails Association (BWA). BWA is more focused on selective harvest rather than QDM. The difference in QDM and selective harvest is that QDM’s main focus is on BIG RACKS, selective harvest is more about balancing out the deer herd in SE MN, in other words balance out the buck to doe ratio for a healthier deer herd, and one of the benefits to this would be that you would also see more mature bucks.
For the life of me I will never understand why guys that claim they are meat hunters only will shoot the numbers of young bucks that they do when the buck to doe ratio in SE MN in most areas is 10 to 1. Sorry but I call the BS flag most of these guys want to be able to brag that they shot a buck regardless of how old or how small the rack is. In a perfect world everyone would shoot more does and let the young bucks walk, but if you are honest with yourself we all know that this will never happen. The only way to balance out the buck to doe ratio in SE MN is to move the firearms season out of the peak rut. Here is another perspective from Gary Clancy
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Anybody who doesn’t know the letter writers artwork should look him up. I think Michael Sieve is probably one of the best wildlife artists around. His whitetail paintings in particular are awesome. I am guessing he wants some more subjects for his paintings running around. I know that I wouldn’t mind having a few more hog running wild.
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I would not be so quick to say Minnesota is lacking in the BIG BUCK department….there’s a lot of nice bucks here
Sorry but I would have to disagree, all one has to do is to look at the record books to see what state produces more record book bucks, Iowa blows MN away.
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Does anyone think driving deer is part of the problem in MN?
Deer drives uswally mean running deer, running deer uswally mean you do not know what your shooting at, not good or safe IMHO.
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Seems to me MN & WI need to manage the hunters, not the Deer. Just like IA has.
Blue how does Iowa manage the hunters? If you are saying by the number of non residents they let hunt each year I do not feel that has as big of an impact as them having there gun season in Dec after the peak rut does. If MN did move the gun season out of the peak rut time, they should give the gun hunters an early muzzle loader season in Oct the same way Iowa does.
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The thing that needs to change for Mr. Sieve’s liking, would be the young bucks being given a chance to mature. That relies on everybody, not pullin’ the trigger on everything that walks by. You can’t point the finger at the DNR deer management for that
I agree with you G but do you really think that will ever happen unless DNR makes some more changes. Sadly it is unrealistic to believe that there will come a time when all hunters will let young bucks walk. All one has to do is spend a few hours and a registration station on opening weekend like Gobbler said and see how many young bucks are brought in and you will realize that this is a long way off of the majority of hunters doing this on there own. With the does out numbering the bucks by 10 to 1 if not greater in SE MN this does just not make any sense to me.
I will agree that letting big bucks walk is very important but there I believe more issues to look at besides. I see hunters here in Iowa and I’m sure MossyDan will agree that shoot the first thing by regardless of button forks or 10 pointer. Not trying to say that selective harvest should be ignored just that other things need to change also.
Dan
I see you are padding your post Bucks Steve.
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Does anyone think driving deer is part of the problem in MN?
Deer drives uswally mean running deer, running deer uswally mean you do not know what your shooting at, not good or safe IMHO.
From my perspective, I could not disagree with that more.
Sorry to hijack the post. 
You hit it right on the nailhead Steve. Theres no control over hunters here and what they shoot what so ever, you can take anything you see. I know one thing forsure is when a hunter shoots a couple smaller bucks then the next season shoots a nice 8-12 he will most likely change his mind on what he shoots. After you see a decent buck laying on the ground in front of you the smaller bucks don’t look so inviting anymore. I also think the guys that say they are meat hunters say that because they realize that them seeing a nice buck is going to be pretty slim so saying they are meat hunters makes themselves feel better when they do shoot one. If those guys were meat hunters then why not just take a doe, thats what most meathunters do down here including me, I don’t think twice about taking a fawn if I want the tender meat, but the herd here is at the point when I can and so do others here.
Just for discussions sake I wonder what would happen too the herd there if they did everything like Iowa does on season dates etc. What I mean is schedule the hunting dates to coincide with the northern rut up there, it would probably be a few weeks earlier then here because of the seasonal changes and how the deer react to them. Schedule the doe culling dates, the main hunting dates, blackpowder etc. the same as Iowa does but all of them would maybe start sooner then here and later there because the seasons change faster up there befor here. This is just for discussions sake only but I wonder what would happen in 3 to 5 years. It sounds like theres plenty of shooters in north and south dakota, I wonder what thier hunting schedule is, timing layout, compared too Minn. and Wisc. and to Iowa here. I know the seasons start sooner up there because it gets colder earlier then here but North Dakota would be a good one to compare too. I’ll bet a guy could put some figures together. Maybe if the dnr there set aside a portion of the state, say 10 to 15 counties and did an exploratory season change to see what does happen in a 5 year testing program, I don’t know im just suggesting what might be good. Ideally wouldn’t it be nice if at the deer checking stations most guys started bringing in does saying thier letting the young bucks go, then the next few years after that everybody would start to see nicer bucks coming in. I like to talk and I’d take a doe and talk up a storm about why I did at a checking station just to change other hunters minds but that im doing it on public land and that our group is trying to get the big buck numbers up in our area. These are all just suggestions and not meant to –ss anybody off.
I didn’t see your post until now Dkremer, I know what your saying and there are alot of guys who will shoot anything here especially if its got antlers on it. I think one of the main reasons here is why doing that that the herd dosen’t get pinched so hard is that the herd has already attained its growth in bigger bucks so taking some of the smaller ones isn’t going to hurt. I know that if hunters did start shooting anaything that had a rack then we’ed start to see damage.
A good case in point is where I used to hunt. Norms place was a deer magnent and a deer factory, deer everywhere. It was common to see all kinds of spikes too 6’s and 8’s. then there was a gap from there up too the real big wallhangers, there wasen’t any bucks in between those two age groups. I hunted his timber for 6 years and seen the biggest buck I have even seen in my life, him and another very nice one too but no bucks with decent 8 to 12 point racks. The reason why was because they were heavy buck hunters up there so some areas here they do pinch a herd too. In other areas here where theres less hunting pressure or the farmers/landowners watch the herds they are more balanced and you see more bucks. Its hunting pressure on any buck that keeps a herd where its at. Public hunting areas here is another pretty good example. The Coralville reserviour area is heavily hunted during first and second season and they shoot alot of bucks there too of any size, but some hunters are selective, but there the herds have also reached the optimum size and theres always the older smarter bucks that make it through and because of the heavy undergrowth alot of medium sized bucks too.
I lived in and bowhunted MN for 7 years. If you dont think that the season should be moved, ask any one from WI or IA what the bucks are doing the first week in November. In MN you one day you might pass on a little buck or big buck and that next day that same buck might be a mile away looking for does. IA those buck are not going to travel that far unless they are pushed. And WI most years is the same way. Those 7 years in MN i saw a few big bucks. Here in WI I have seen a few big bucks every year. One big difference was that in Wi you get to bowhunt that peak time and MN gun hunters are out at that time. It was very hard for me to understand why gun hunters didnt want the season moved.
I would also like to add that in WI you can shot 2 bucks in a season(some cases more) IA you can shot 2 bucks(landowner 1 extra tag 3 bucks) and MN 1 buck. Worst state for big Buck MN. What 
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