Whats the difference?

I was thinking to myself recently, why do some people look down on folks that take smaller bucks??? And that question was followed by, Do they eat the big ones, or just make trophies outta them??

I keep hearing the talk about, “I wont shoot anything less than…”

So heres the real question, Whats the difference between fishing and hunting??? Now, I personally wont keep a big fish, only the eaters, as many of you also do.

This is purely for conversational purposes only, and I dont want to judge anyone else, as much as Id not want to be judged. However, I will not shoot anything I dont intend on eating. And since Ive heard that the old boys dont taste so great, are we hunting the big ones just to kill?? Doesnt the same principle of a strong breeding stock apply to deer as well??

Just food for thought…

Fishing…Big fish are females and the future of the lake.

Deer Hunting…Big Bucks are Big and Old, their prime breeding is done and over. It doesn’t take many bucks to breed a lot of does. Doe Harvest controls the population.

No matter what it comes down to Selective Harvest, they are all a resource that need to be managed to prevent over harvest.

Fishing…Big fish are females and the future of the lake.

Deer Hunting…Big Bucks are Big and Old, their prime breeding is done and over. It doesn’t take many bucks to breed a lot of does. Doe Harvest controls the population.

No matter what it comes down to Selective Harvest, they are all a resource that need to be managed to prevent over harvest.

You can catch and release a big fish, kind of hard to throw back a dead buck …. JK. Scott pretty much summed it up. Much like a fisherman, it’s fun to outsmart the wisest and oldest, unfortunately, one can be released, the other goes on the wall and my freezer. BTW, venison is good if properly cared for, from kill to plate, IMHO.

big g

You can catch and release a big fish, kind of hard to throw back a dead buck …. JK. Scott pretty much summed it up. Much like a fisherman, it’s fun to outsmart the wisest and oldest, unfortunately, one can be released, the other goes on the wall and my freezer. BTW, venison is good if properly cared for, from kill to plate, IMHO.

big g

Good post- and great question.

I won’t ever harp on anyone for shooting a “small” buck- a trophy is in the eye of the beholder- for some that might be a button or spike buck- and that is fine with me. Congrats to the hunter!

For me, and my land- and the people that hunt on it- that is a different story- Young bucks need the chance to grow up, and peak their potential- if they don’t have the type of genes you want- then take them out of the gene pool- if they are good genes, I will let them grow and mature, and spread those genes- then they can be harvested. If you want a solid deer herd, there are many things that have to be done in order to insure that. Even doe population- the more does there are, the easier it is for a “lesser” buck to breed those does.

I usually have a running count on the deer herd in the area- and that figure calculates how many does need to come out. Last year I shot five does- two have already been eaten, and the other three were given to hunters for hunger. With the bucks- I make them all into Jerky- I go through a ton of Jerky each year. I have a family in my immediate area of about 25 people, who all love deer jerky as much as I do. No venison goes to waste.

With fish- like Scott said, the big females are the lake’s future.

Good post- and great question.

I won’t ever harp on anyone for shooting a “small” buck- a trophy is in the eye of the beholder- for some that might be a button or spike buck- and that is fine with me. Congrats to the hunter!

For me, and my land- and the people that hunt on it- that is a different story- Young bucks need the chance to grow up, and peak their potential- if they don’t have the type of genes you want- then take them out of the gene pool- if they are good genes, I will let them grow and mature, and spread those genes- then they can be harvested. If you want a solid deer herd, there are many things that have to be done in order to insure that. Even doe population- the more does there are, the easier it is for a “lesser” buck to breed those does.

I usually have a running count on the deer herd in the area- and that figure calculates how many does need to come out. Last year I shot five does- two have already been eaten, and the other three were given to hunters for hunger. With the bucks- I make them all into Jerky- I go through a ton of Jerky each year. I have a family in my immediate area of about 25 people, who all love deer jerky as much as I do. No venison goes to waste.

With fish- like Scott said, the big females are the lake’s future.

i beg to differ, from the pictures i’ve been seeing these bucks are IN there prime but we have no problem taking them out of the gene pool just for our own satisfaction of killing a trophy. granted a deers “prime years” are short maybe 3 to 5 years but they are still prime years. and yes hunters are starting to manage there own land for quallity deer which is great if that is what they want but i don’t think it is fare that when there neighbors don’t manage for deer quallity that they expect the state to force eveyone to comply with there wishes (see zone 3) and i bet that if i went to these people and asked if i could hunt there land they would say NO. in conclusion this debate has been going on for a very long time and yet every year you see and here of trophy bucks shot so IMO some people are making a bigger issue out of this then it really is.

P.S. if every buck in the woods is a 140 class deer is it still a trophy?

i beg to differ, from the pictures i’ve been seeing these bucks are IN there prime but we have no problem taking them out of the gene pool just for our own satisfaction of killing a trophy. granted a deers “prime years” are short maybe 3 to 5 years but they are still prime years. and yes hunters are starting to manage there own land for quallity deer which is great if that is what they want but i don’t think it is fare that when there neighbors don’t manage for deer quallity that they expect the state to force eveyone to comply with there wishes (see zone 3) and i bet that if i went to these people and asked if i could hunt there land they would say NO. in conclusion this debate has been going on for a very long time and yet every year you see and here of trophy bucks shot so IMO some people are making a bigger issue out of this then it really is.

P.S. if every buck in the woods is a 140 class deer is it still a trophy?

From the hardcore buck chasers I have met – it seems to me that if they could breathe life back into that buck after the hunt, many would choose to do so. Fishing is wonderful in the way we get to catch AND let go.

Tim

From the hardcore buck chasers I have met – it seems to me that if they could breathe life back into that buck after the hunt, many would choose to do so. Fishing is wonderful in the way we get to catch AND let go.

Tim

My criteria of a “trophy” may not be even close to a trophy for others. The fact is that my hunting experience is to make me happy. I don’t hunt to prove anything or impress anyone. I have bucks on my wall that by the tape measure are far from trophy sized, but the memory of that particular hunt and that particular buck make them a trophy to me. That being said, I have decided that I want to shoot only mature deer. I respect the choices of others to shoot whatever makes them happy. My BIL has never shot any buck bigger than a yearling 8 point. If a 16″ ten point walked into range, he’d shoot it and be happy as anyone. I might let it walk to see what he’d look like next year. I’m ok with it in either situation. Its his hunt. The trophy is in the eyes of the beholder. As with most things in life, I can only control MY actions, not the actions of others. Personally, I don’t get a thrill out of shooting small bucks. I want a mature deer. Thats what satisfies me. If a smaller buck makes someone else’s day, good for them. I’m happy if they are happy. I support everyone’s right to enjoy THEIR hunt.

My criteria of a “trophy” may not be even close to a trophy for others. The fact is that my hunting experience is to make me happy. I don’t hunt to prove anything or impress anyone. I have bucks on my wall that by the tape measure are far from trophy sized, but the memory of that particular hunt and that particular buck make them a trophy to me. That being said, I have decided that I want to shoot only mature deer. I respect the choices of others to shoot whatever makes them happy. My BIL has never shot any buck bigger than a yearling 8 point. If a 16″ ten point walked into range, he’d shoot it and be happy as anyone. I might let it walk to see what he’d look like next year. I’m ok with it in either situation. Its his hunt. The trophy is in the eyes of the beholder. As with most things in life, I can only control MY actions, not the actions of others. Personally, I don’t get a thrill out of shooting small bucks. I want a mature deer. Thats what satisfies me. If a smaller buck makes someone else’s day, good for them. I’m happy if they are happy. I support everyone’s right to enjoy THEIR hunt.

I wish I had the time to trophy hunt. And if I did knock one down. I would eat it. The best mount I have on the wall is of a forky I shot when I was a wee fella. Hunted for 3 years with a bow. Missed too many deer. I practiced my tail off shooting my bow till I was good. I will never forget that little fork walking in to my stand area. Talk about buck fever over a fork? Yup it was there in all it’s reality. I made a really good shot and watched him go down. I dont remember touching any pegs on the way out of my tree that day. I hit the ground and raised my bow to the sky and said THANK YOU!

So if that is how trophy hunting feels. Then so be it! Look at Grifter’s Buck True trophy. Read his story he tells how he felt!

p.s. big fish need to be put back. That’s a no brainer.

I wish I had the time to trophy hunt. And if I did knock one down. I would eat it. The best mount I have on the wall is of a forky I shot when I was a wee fella. Hunted for 3 years with a bow. Missed too many deer. I practiced my tail off shooting my bow till I was good. I will never forget that little fork walking in to my stand area. Talk about buck fever over a fork? Yup it was there in all it’s reality. I made a really good shot and watched him go down. I dont remember touching any pegs on the way out of my tree that day. I hit the ground and raised my bow to the sky and said THANK YOU!

So if that is how trophy hunting feels. Then so be it! Look at Grifter’s Buck True trophy. Read his story he tells how he felt!

p.s. big fish need to be put back. That’s a no brainer.

I here alot of people use the term ” Balance the Buck to doe ratio” But what is that ratio supposed to be ? And I know alot of people are going to guess at a number,but what is the Deer bioligists opinion ? Also more food for thought is in zone 3 area 344a the doe permits were cut way back and I didnt recieve a doe permit.This inclines me and I bet alot of others to shoot the first legal buck that passes by,because I love venison and I only have 3 days that I can hunt.

I here alot of people use the term ” Balance the Buck to doe ratio” But what is that ratio supposed to be ? And I know alot of people are going to guess at a number,but what is the Deer bioligists opinion ? Also more food for thought is in zone 3 area 344a the doe permits were cut way back and I didnt recieve a doe permit.This inclines me and I bet alot of others to shoot the first legal buck that passes by,because I love venison and I only have 3 days that I can hunt.

mat03z,
i here ya, i was one of the lucky ones who got a doe permit for 344a (we only got 2 in our party of 10) although 1 of then 10 is my 15 year old son so if him and i can come out of the woods with 2 nice does it will have been a vantastic hunt.
what part of 344 do you hunt?

mat03z,
i here ya, i was one of the lucky ones who got a doe permit for 344a (we only got 2 in our party of 10) although 1 of then 10 is my 15 year old son so if him and i can come out of the woods with 2 nice does it will have been a vantastic hunt.
what part of 344 do you hunt?

Excellent question and great responses. To each is own. One time I hunted an area that I knew I was not going to be able to hunt it again next year. I leased this land from the farmer and he sold it. It was towards the end of the season and I was hot on the trail of a buck who was making some serious rubs and scrapes. For some reason he always avoided my cameras.

I must of hung 10 stands in different locations trying to figure this buck out. One morning he finally showed up. He had a good rack – but his body looked a little small and I think he was most likely a 3.5 year old. I thought next year this deer would be a stud! I decided to let him walk under my stand 10 yards away knowing that this was my last chance to kill a good buck for the season.

I worked hard and sat many hours just waiting for him to show up. But I let him live and ended up feeling simply awesome!!! To this day it is still one of my most rewarding hunts.

Again – it’s not always about the kill.

Excellent question and great responses. To each is own. One time I hunted an area that I knew I was not going to be able to hunt it again next year. I leased this land from the farmer and he sold it. It was towards the end of the season and I was hot on the trail of a buck who was making some serious rubs and scrapes. For some reason he always avoided my cameras.

I must of hung 10 stands in different locations trying to figure this buck out. One morning he finally showed up. He had a good rack – but his body looked a little small and I think he was most likely a 3.5 year old. I thought next year this deer would be a stud! I decided to let him walk under my stand 10 yards away knowing that this was my last chance to kill a good buck for the season.

I worked hard and sat many hours just waiting for him to show up. But I let him live and ended up feeling simply awesome!!! To this day it is still one of my most rewarding hunts.

Again – it’s not always about the kill.

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I here alot of people use the term ” Balance the Buck to doe ratio” But what is that ratio supposed to be ? And I know alot of people are going to guess at a number,but what is the Deer bioligists opinion ? Also more food for thought is in zone 3 area 344a the doe permits were cut way back and I didnt recieve a doe permit.This inclines me and I bet alot of others to shoot the first legal buck that passes by,because I love venison and I only have 3 days that I can hunt.

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Personally I think this is getting way off topic however this is some great discussion.

Deer biologists say a good ratio is 1 to 1 although 2 to 1 (2 does to a buck) is decent. I’m not totally positive but when the MN DNR does their population counts and studies I do not think they take population of each sex in account when they set harvest quotas and in my mind are “behind in the times” in deer management. Other states like SD & ND have figured it out. They will give you a deer tag but it is for a doe. They limit the # of buck tags they give out rather then the # of does. That is just totally the opposite that they do here in MN. Kind of strange huh??? IMO those states are doing it right. Not only are they controlling the doe-buck ratio, they are controlling the POPULATION. A thing I believe MN & WI both struggle with in many areas of the states.

As far as shooting trophy deer and releasing trophy fish go. You are not comparing apples to apples IMO. Easy to release a trophy fish after catching it, a little harder to do so with a deer.

The true emotions that overcome me when I harvest a deer are very real and well………emotional. To harvest a mature/trophy buck those feelings are 10 X and the feelings range from relieved, sad, sorry, excited, respectful, regretful, surreal, disbelief, and the list goes on. However I have those same feelings on some hunts and I never pulled the trigger. For me it is about the experience and the memories that go with it. Some of my favorite and most memorable hunts I never pulled the trigger or even on a few, I never even saw a shooter buck. Its not always about whats on the wall or freezer but what you can get out of / take away from the hunt that makes it special to me.

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I here alot of people use the term ” Balance the Buck to doe ratio” But what is that ratio supposed to be ? And I know alot of people are going to guess at a number,but what is the Deer bioligists opinion ? Also more food for thought is in zone 3 area 344a the doe permits were cut way back and I didnt recieve a doe permit.This inclines me and I bet alot of others to shoot the first legal buck that passes by,because I love venison and I only have 3 days that I can hunt.

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Personally I think this is getting way off topic however this is some great discussion.

Deer biologists say a good ratio is 1 to 1 although 2 to 1 (2 does to a buck) is decent. I’m not totally positive but when the MN DNR does their population counts and studies I do not think they take population of each sex in account when they set harvest quotas and in my mind are “behind in the times” in deer management. Other states like SD & ND have figured it out. They will give you a deer tag but it is for a doe. They limit the # of buck tags they give out rather then the # of does. That is just totally the opposite that they do here in MN. Kind of strange huh??? IMO those states are doing it right. Not only are they controlling the doe-buck ratio, they are controlling the POPULATION. A thing I believe MN & WI both struggle with in many areas of the states.

As far as shooting trophy deer and releasing trophy fish go. You are not comparing apples to apples IMO. Easy to release a trophy fish after catching it, a little harder to do so with a deer.

The true emotions that overcome me when I harvest a deer are very real and well………emotional. To harvest a mature/trophy buck those feelings are 10 X and the feelings range from relieved, sad, sorry, excited, respectful, regretful, surreal, disbelief, and the list goes on. However I have those same feelings on some hunts and I never pulled the trigger. For me it is about the experience and the memories that go with it. Some of my favorite and most memorable hunts I never pulled the trigger or even on a few, I never even saw a shooter buck. Its not always about whats on the wall or freezer but what you can get out of / take away from the hunt that makes it special to me.

Great question.

I’m in transition from “any buck” to a “big or bigger buck”. However, I don’t think it’s fair to compare this to fishing just because you can catch and release. IMO, if that were the case you should zero in your rifle, know you’re accurate and then go into the woods without any bullets. When you see the monster you can simply aim and pull the trigger and this is a form of catch and release. Or just bring a camera out there with you.

I think most of us hunt for the excitement and the kill. Knowing that the genetics were probably passed on at some point and I outsmarted or outlucked the best of the best on their turf.

With that said, I don’t know that my comments are justified because I have yet to take a great buck. From what most of you are saying I will probly feel different after I kill it. It sounds like when I was a kid, chasing and chasing that same little bird all around the farm. Shooting my bb gun a hundred times. Then finally when I got it, feeling bad that it’s dead..??

Great question.

I’m in transition from “any buck” to a “big or bigger buck”. However, I don’t think it’s fair to compare this to fishing just because you can catch and release. IMO, if that were the case you should zero in your rifle, know you’re accurate and then go into the woods without any bullets. When you see the monster you can simply aim and pull the trigger and this is a form of catch and release. Or just bring a camera out there with you.

I think most of us hunt for the excitement and the kill. Knowing that the genetics were probably passed on at some point and I outsmarted or outlucked the best of the best on their turf.

With that said, I don’t know that my comments are justified because I have yet to take a great buck. From what most of you are saying I will probly feel different after I kill it. It sounds like when I was a kid, chasing and chasing that same little bird all around the farm. Shooting my bb gun a hundred times. Then finally when I got it, feeling bad that it’s dead..??

Great Discussion…But this issue varies tremendously depending on your geographic area…weather, food, cover, predators and hunting pressure.
Michigan issues around 800,000 Deer licenses…The DNR buck kill stats show that 84% of the bucks harvested are ONE AND ONE HALF YEARS OLD!!!!
In fact here in the UP where I live and hunt(80% State/Federal land)…there have only been eleven bucks registered 4 1/2 yrs old or older in the past TEN YEARS!
The buck/doe ratio here is nearly 20 to 1 because the is an age old pervasive attitude that Does should be spared…

I have passed sixes and under for eight years…shooting one nice 9 pt and eating several tender does…both gun and bow.
Thats how it is in my neck of the woods…

Great Discussion…But this issue varies tremendously depending on your geographic area…weather, food, cover, predators and hunting pressure.
Michigan issues around 800,000 Deer licenses…The DNR buck kill stats show that 84% of the bucks harvested are ONE AND ONE HALF YEARS OLD!!!!
In fact here in the UP where I live and hunt(80% State/Federal land)…there have only been eleven bucks registered 4 1/2 yrs old or older in the past TEN YEARS!
The buck/doe ratio here is nearly 20 to 1 because the is an age old pervasive attitude that Does should be spared…

I have passed sixes and under for eight years…shooting one nice 9 pt and eating several tender does…both gun and bow.
Thats how it is in my neck of the woods…

Im not a bioigist by any means but to me a buck to doe ratio of 4 too 8 does per buck seems more the answer. Im not disagreeing with Robs findings but that dosen’t sound balanced. I know it seems unbalanced to some but what happens when the doe gets bred and the bucks looking around and there isn’t anymore does to breed. What I mean is too keep the population wheres theres alot of deer around you need the does for breeding, over population, no.

Road kills, hunting and natural mortality kills the does so the balance of 1 to 1 or 1 to 3 dosen’t seem right. 8 out of 10 deer roadkilled here are does, I know this is because theres more does but theres also quite a few bucks here too, alot of spikes to 8’s. A buck will service alot of does and run until march when he sheds his antlers looking to breed the older does and the new fawns that come in to estrous. This sounds like more of a natural balance to keep the herds at a higher population because of mortality and the higher population of does is needed to do this. Issue more doe tags and watch the amount of deer harvested and see the buck population come up, thats whats done here.

I agree with everything thats been said here, you need the females to keep populations high. With deer you have to let the younger ones breed and after they spread thier genes around for a few years the genes will be balanced in the herd. Waiting for a mature buck that has already done this a few years is what makes a nicer racked buck. You can tell what younger bucks aren’t going to rack out nice in a few years by the tight curvature of his main beam, length of the tines and narrow mass, If I decide too take a younger buck those are the ones I take. Farmers selective breed thier stock to get the best potential for breeding the best animals in the future, to me we are like farmers too. Lots more can be said but I think its smart to watch the breeding.

Im not a bioigist by any means but to me a buck to doe ratio of 4 too 8 does per buck seems more the answer. Im not disagreeing with Robs findings but that dosen’t sound balanced. I know it seems unbalanced to some but what happens when the doe gets bred and the bucks looking around and there isn’t anymore does to breed. What I mean is too keep the population wheres theres alot of deer around you need the does for breeding, over population, no.

Road kills, hunting and natural mortality kills the does so the balance of 1 to 1 or 1 to 3 dosen’t seem right. 8 out of 10 deer roadkilled here are does, I know this is because theres more does but theres also quite a few bucks here too, alot of spikes to 8’s. A buck will service alot of does and run until march when he sheds his antlers looking to breed the older does and the new fawns that come in to estrous. This sounds like more of a natural balance to keep the herds at a higher population because of mortality and the higher population of does is needed to do this. Issue more doe tags and watch the amount of deer harvested and see the buck population come up, thats whats done here.

I agree with everything thats been said here, you need the females to keep populations high. With deer you have to let the younger ones breed and after they spread thier genes around for a few years the genes will be balanced in the herd. Waiting for a mature buck that has already done this a few years is what makes a nicer racked buck. You can tell what younger bucks aren’t going to rack out nice in a few years by the tight curvature of his main beam, length of the tines and narrow mass, If I decide too take a younger buck those are the ones I take. Farmers selective breed thier stock to get the best potential for breeding the best animals in the future, to me we are like farmers too. Lots more can be said but I think its smart to watch the breeding.

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I was thinking to myself recently, why do some people look down on folks that take smaller bucks??? And that question was followed by, Do they eat the big ones, or just make trophies outta them??

I keep hearing the talk about, “I wont shoot anything less than…”

So heres the real question, Whats the difference between fishing and hunting??? Now, I personally wont keep a big fish, only the eaters, as many of you also do.

This is purely for conversational purposes only, and I dont want to judge anyone else, as much as Id not want to be judged. However, I will not shoot anything I dont intend on eating. And since Ive heard that the old boys dont taste so great, are we hunting the big ones just to kill?? Doesnt the same principle of a strong breeding stock apply to deer as well??

Just food for thought…

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Its in the gene pool. A buck doesn’t have to be 190″ to pass on good genes.