I was talking to a guy at work about hunting. I mentioned to him that I have been grunting and bleating. He asked if there was a deer in my sights I said no, he said all I am doing is educating the deer. It is only my 3rd yesr bow hunting. So I am still learning.
What do you guys think??? 
I think he is completely wrong, with all due respect! I know a lot of guys, myself included, that have called in unseen deer with subtle bleats or grunting. I suppose if a guy got antsy and called too loud or too often he could spook some deer that get suspicious, but if you keep your calling limited to every 20 minutes or so, and keep an eye peeled for approaching deer, I don’t think you will have a problem with “educating” deer. Best of luck, give calling a try….right now is a great time to call deer!
I think he is completely wrong, with all due respect! I know a lot of guys, myself included, that have called in unseen deer with subtle bleats or grunting. I suppose if a guy got antsy and called too loud or too often he could spook some deer that get suspicious, but if you keep your calling limited to every 20 minutes or so, and keep an eye peeled for approaching deer, I don’t think you will have a problem with “educating” deer. Best of luck, give calling a try….right now is a great time to call deer!
I agree with slipsinker… 
I agree with slipsinker…
The only way I could see you educating the deer is if they came in and you spooked them!
The only way I could see you educating the deer is if they came in and you spooked them!
I agree with slip. I use a grunt and can off and on throught the entire season, it’s pulled in many deer! Infact the buck I shot last season was pulled in with a grunt, he was unseen. Don’t overdo it though!
BIRDDOG
I agree with slip. I use a grunt and can off and on throught the entire season, it’s pulled in many deer! Infact the buck I shot last season was pulled in with a grunt, he was unseen. Don’t overdo it though!
BIRDDOG
I have to agree with the other’s as well
If we sit back and think about it, how can you “educate” a deer when you are immitating the sounds they themselves make If a person thinks than bleating and grunting will educate a deer, then there should be a lot of deer in this country that would not respond to natural occuring deer sounds.
When I bow hunted, I always blind called. I would let out a few bleats or grunts every half hour or so. Nothing too loud or agressive, unless a deer was spotted.
If you were spotted, you may educate a deer about your location and they MAY avoid it for awhile. Deer do not have the mentality to associate a human making deer sounds.
I have to agree with the other’s as well
If we sit back and think about it, how can you “educate” a deer when you are immitating the sounds they themselves make If a person thinks than bleating and grunting will educate a deer, then there should be a lot of deer in this country that would not respond to natural occuring deer sounds.
When I bow hunted, I always blind called. I would let out a few bleats or grunts every half hour or so. Nothing too loud or agressive, unless a deer was spotted.
If you were spotted, you may educate a deer about your location and they MAY avoid it for awhile. Deer do not have the mentality to associate a human making deer sounds.
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Deer do not have the mentality to associate a human making deer sounds.
but they are smart enough to know what is, and isn’t right. In my opinion, we are trying to speak their language, and the more attempts we make at trying to communicate to them, the higher the chance of mistakes. If you are on solid trails/scrapes or if you have a camera and know deer are in your area, give them time and they will show up eventually. I’m not saying don’t ever call, but calling should not be what you are relying on to get deer in your area. If I see a deer, and know he is not looking directly at me, then and only then, I will call. Just my opinion.
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Deer do not have the mentality to associate a human making deer sounds.
but they are smart enough to know what is, and isn’t right. In my opinion, we are trying to speak their language, and the more attempts we make at trying to communicate to them, the higher the chance of mistakes. If you are on solid trails/scrapes or if you have a camera and know deer are in your area, give them time and they will show up eventually. I’m not saying don’t ever call, but calling should not be what you are relying on to get deer in your area. If I see a deer, and know he is not looking directly at me, then and only then, I will call. Just my opinion.
Slip said it well! I have had just as much success with blind calling as with deer in sight. The bleating has never really worked too well for me. Just remember keep it to about 2 or maybe even 3 sequences during your sit. Too much is a bad thing.
Slip said it well! I have had just as much success with blind calling as with deer in sight. The bleating has never really worked too well for me. Just remember keep it to about 2 or maybe even 3 sequences during your sit. Too much is a bad thing.
I don’t believe deer “know” anything. They react on instinct alone.
There are two trains of thought with deer hunter’s. One is the thought that quiet is better. This type of hunter can and does harvest deer. The other type are the ones who use vocalizations to bring deer in.
I am a firm believer in using calls from the beginning of season to the end. I am also a firm believer in people giving the deer way to much credit. They are nothing more than skittish animals who live by instinct and reaction to their elements. Almost every deer I have harvested with a gun and bow was a direct reaction to blind calling. Sure, I haven’t killed 100’s of deer and numerous record book bucks, but I have spent enough time in the woods scouting and studying deer and their habits to know that calling at ot to deer is NOT going to educate them. How can a deer know what is and isn’t right about a grunt or bleat? All deer sound different with their vocalizations. There is not a clear cut grunt or bleat that every deer make. That goes for any animal that you call to whether it be deer, elk, coyotes, or coons.
If you get busted making a deer call to a deer that is looking at you, the call itself did not “educate” the deer. The deer ill react to the threat of YOU, a danger to them, and not the sound of the call. They have no way of reasoning that the danger in the tree is making a call to them just to kill them.
I don’t believe deer “know” anything. They react on instinct alone.
There are two trains of thought with deer hunter’s. One is the thought that quiet is better. This type of hunter can and does harvest deer. The other type are the ones who use vocalizations to bring deer in.
I am a firm believer in using calls from the beginning of season to the end. I am also a firm believer in people giving the deer way to much credit. They are nothing more than skittish animals who live by instinct and reaction to their elements. Almost every deer I have harvested with a gun and bow was a direct reaction to blind calling. Sure, I haven’t killed 100’s of deer and numerous record book bucks, but I have spent enough time in the woods scouting and studying deer and their habits to know that calling at ot to deer is NOT going to educate them. How can a deer know what is and isn’t right about a grunt or bleat? All deer sound different with their vocalizations. There is not a clear cut grunt or bleat that every deer make. That goes for any animal that you call to whether it be deer, elk, coyotes, or coons.
If you get busted making a deer call to a deer that is looking at you, the call itself did not “educate” the deer. The deer ill react to the threat of YOU, a danger to them, and not the sound of the call. They have no way of reasoning that the danger in the tree is making a call to them just to kill them.
Thanks Wats and everybody for sharing, I had a suscpicion that it couldnt be bad to blind calling, although from all your replies I have over done my calling a bit. I will be in Ripley this weekend, and I plan to do a little calling and rattling.
Good luck everyone
paul
Thanks Wats and everybody for sharing, I had a suscpicion that it couldnt be bad to blind calling, although from all your replies I have over done my calling a bit. I will be in Ripley this weekend, and I plan to do a little calling and rattling.
Good luck everyone
paul
Wats, Deer are educated to learn and “know” many things. I 100% do not believe they are instinct only.
I’d bet you huge money that there are many big bucks that will not come to calls blindly because of previous experiences. They “know” better. And then there are many big bucks that will.
I have grunted and rattled in many bucks, some big, many small. Almost all the time the came up short or a shot wasn’t presented, etc. As they approach they more times than not circled in down wind. Once they get there and theres no other buck or doe or whatever you are trying to replicate, they “know” they have been duped and there gone. Next time they’re call on, more times than not, I bet they think twice.
So is it all worth it. For sure. Make sure to use the proper scents to back it all up though.
So as far as the actual call educating them, I don’t think so. But there is deer that have been educated and may avoid that stuff if they can’t visually back it up. But I think the situation can educate them though.
Wats, Deer are educated to learn and “know” many things. I 100% do not believe they are instinct only.
I’d bet you huge money that there are many big bucks that will not come to calls blindly because of previous experiences. They “know” better. And then there are many big bucks that will.
I have grunted and rattled in many bucks, some big, many small. Almost all the time the came up short or a shot wasn’t presented, etc. As they approach they more times than not circled in down wind. Once they get there and theres no other buck or doe or whatever you are trying to replicate, they “know” they have been duped and there gone. Next time they’re call on, more times than not, I bet they think twice.
So is it all worth it. For sure. Make sure to use the proper scents to back it all up though.
So as far as the actual call educating them, I don’t think so. But there is deer that have been educated and may avoid that stuff if they can’t visually back it up. But I think the situation can educate them though.
There is nothing wrong with an occasional grunt or bleat. The sound isn’t going to carry very far in most conditions anyway. There is always a chance that a deer just out of eyesight might respond. Much depends on what type of grunting you are doing. This time of the year many bucks will be grunting as they trail does or travel between rubs and scrapes. This is usually a low pitched short grunt every few seconds or so with several grunts coming in succession. Once they actually begin breeding does they have a tending grunt that is 2 to 3 louder grunts in a row. Another sound they make when on the trail of a hot doe is what I call “clicking”. I don’t know what the correct term is for this but it is a click, click, click noise with a click about every second. I use a piece of wood and slowly move it down the corrugated end of my grunt tube getting a click on each corrugation. This sounds exactly like the noise that the bucks make when they are on a hot doe. I personally like using a fawn bleat. Bucks can’t seem to resist investigating a fawn bleat. I don’t do a great deal of “blind” grunting maybe only once a couple of hours or more. This time of the year (late pre-rut) I prefer to rattle every hour or so and follow it up with a little grunting if necessary. If there are bucks in the vicinity the rattling will usually be more than enough to bring them in this time of the season. Frequency of grunting is entirely up to you. Just keep in mind that too-much of anything is never a good thing.
Eyehunter
There is nothing wrong with an occasional grunt or bleat. The sound isn’t going to carry very far in most conditions anyway. There is always a chance that a deer just out of eyesight might respond. Much depends on what type of grunting you are doing. This time of the year many bucks will be grunting as they trail does or travel between rubs and scrapes. This is usually a low pitched short grunt every few seconds or so with several grunts coming in succession. Once they actually begin breeding does they have a tending grunt that is 2 to 3 louder grunts in a row. Another sound they make when on the trail of a hot doe is what I call “clicking”. I don’t know what the correct term is for this but it is a click, click, click noise with a click about every second. I use a piece of wood and slowly move it down the corrugated end of my grunt tube getting a click on each corrugation. This sounds exactly like the noise that the bucks make when they are on a hot doe. I personally like using a fawn bleat. Bucks can’t seem to resist investigating a fawn bleat. I don’t do a great deal of “blind” grunting maybe only once a couple of hours or more. This time of the year (late pre-rut) I prefer to rattle every hour or so and follow it up with a little grunting if necessary. If there are bucks in the vicinity the rattling will usually be more than enough to bring them in this time of the season. Frequency of grunting is entirely up to you. Just keep in mind that too-much of anything is never a good thing.
Eyehunter
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The sound isn’t going to carry very far in most conditions anyway. There is always a chance that a deer just out of eyesight might respond. Much depends on what type of grunting you are doing. This time of the year many bucks will be grunting as they trail does or travel between rubs and scrapes. This is usually a low pitched short grunt every few seconds or so with several grunts coming in succession. Once they actually begin breeding does they have a tending grunt that is 2 to 3 louder grunts in a row. Another sound they make when on the trail of a hot doe is what I call “clicking”. I use a piece of wood and slowly move it down the corrugated end of my grunt tube getting a click on each corrugation. This sounds exactly like the noise that the bucks make when they are on a hot doe. I personally like using a fawn bleat. Bucks can’t seem to resist investigating a fawn bleat. Frequency of grunting is entirely up to you. Just keep in mind that too-much of anything is never a good thing.
Eyehunter
I’d have to second on what Eyehunter wrote. To hopefully add to it.. He’s talking about specific types of grunts in certain situations. This past weekend, there we’re many immature bucks in the area that we’re following does. Now that I saw what the deer we’re doing, I was able to match my grunt to that situation.
If I we’re blindly calling, I would have to experiment with variety of pitches giving adequate rest in between so I don’t overdue it.
In my case, after blowing the grunt a few times at a low pitch. The bucks gave me nothing more then a single ear for only a second. The tone & pitch weren’t peaking it’s interest. Then I increased to a higher pitch, like a doe bleat. The buck stopped instantly & looked my way. If I had laid scents out or had a doe decoy.. He might have come under my stand. I had neither of those things to attract. Only my call.
So my advice would be to make sure you have the complete menu of sounds, smells & aights available to you to create opportunity for a shot.
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The sound isn’t going to carry very far in most conditions anyway. There is always a chance that a deer just out of eyesight might respond. Much depends on what type of grunting you are doing. This time of the year many bucks will be grunting as they trail does or travel between rubs and scrapes. This is usually a low pitched short grunt every few seconds or so with several grunts coming in succession. Once they actually begin breeding does they have a tending grunt that is 2 to 3 louder grunts in a row. Another sound they make when on the trail of a hot doe is what I call “clicking”. I use a piece of wood and slowly move it down the corrugated end of my grunt tube getting a click on each corrugation. This sounds exactly like the noise that the bucks make when they are on a hot doe. I personally like using a fawn bleat. Bucks can’t seem to resist investigating a fawn bleat. Frequency of grunting is entirely up to you. Just keep in mind that too-much of anything is never a good thing.
Eyehunter
I’d have to second on what Eyehunter wrote. To hopefully add to it.. He’s talking about specific types of grunts in certain situations. This past weekend, there we’re many immature bucks in the area that we’re following does. Now that I saw what the deer we’re doing, I was able to match my grunt to that situation.
If I we’re blindly calling, I would have to experiment with variety of pitches giving adequate rest in between so I don’t overdue it.
In my case, after blowing the grunt a few times at a low pitch. The bucks gave me nothing more then a single ear for only a second. The tone & pitch weren’t peaking it’s interest. Then I increased to a higher pitch, like a doe bleat. The buck stopped instantly & looked my way. If I had laid scents out or had a doe decoy.. He might have come under my stand. I had neither of those things to attract. Only my call.
So my advice would be to make sure you have the complete menu of sounds, smells & aights available to you to create opportunity for a shot.
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I was talking to a guy at work about hunting.
I was talking to a guy last night that said “Yeah, most deer I take are long range at about 800 yards. I use a starlight scope & strictly military rounds”
I just thought that was funny. I am always mindful as to the source of information. I find it’s best in the learning curve to talk to as many people as you can. Ultimately discard the garbage & apply the good. Not all info will be specific to your own situations but it’s up to us to bend it so it works. There are no absolutes. As long as you are getting educated by the deer each time you go out, you will ultimately have venison.
Quote:
I was talking to a guy at work about hunting.
I was talking to a guy last night that said “Yeah, most deer I take are long range at about 800 yards. I use a starlight scope & strictly military rounds”
I just thought that was funny. I am always mindful as to the source of information. I find it’s best in the learning curve to talk to as many people as you can. Ultimately discard the garbage & apply the good. Not all info will be specific to your own situations but it’s up to us to bend it so it works. There are no absolutes. As long as you are getting educated by the deer each time you go out, you will ultimately have venison.
Educating the deer? Then how come i’ve called in ther deer i have. If there 150 yrds away bedded down and have no intentions of coming your direction in the next few hours than how is a person going to get them interisted enough in coming in. Grunts and bleats are for calling them in and they do come to these sounds but don’t over do it. How come the bucks that i’ve grunted in came to me? not by chance because i was grunting them in and they came to investigate. How many guys have grunted in really nice bucks to within bow range, were they just taking a stroll or did they come to the calling. It has to sound like the real thing when you grunt and if it does depending on the frame of mind of the buck at that time they will come to investigate. This is why grunt snort wheese works so good, thier coming in to watch these two bucks fight for territory. If a guy dosen’t want to call and just sit and wait for one to stroll down his path then thats ok but what about the ones that hear you calling then turn and come your way when they were going another direction. If a doe bleat is used right then a buck thats interisted is more apt to come to breed the doe, thats the way it works. If calling them dosen’t work then how come mock scrapes, tarsal glands from the previous year and doe pee works, they all work when its done at the right time. I think that a deer can be educated to the point where thier more cautious when calling and its not done right, especially when they see the human thats doing it. I think its just like duck and goose hunting when the birds become wise to a certain situation and thats why prerut and full blown rut is the best time to call when thier half blind from wanting to breed and they make more mistakes. Grunting and bleeting is very effictive in timbers with alot of underbrush where the bucks can’t see the animal thats making these sounds, thats why i like to setup in timbers with underbrush so when they hear the calling they come to investigate it because they can’t see the animal. They are very good at pinpointing where a sound comes from, they do this all thier life. Calling is very effective and its just as important as stand placement is, they both have to be done right and at the right times, do these things right and your odds go way up in getting your deer instead of just sitting and waiting.
Educating the deer? Then how come i’ve called in ther deer i have. If there 150 yrds away bedded down and have no intentions of coming your direction in the next few hours than how is a person going to get them interisted enough in coming in. Grunts and bleats are for calling them in and they do come to these sounds but don’t over do it. How come the bucks that i’ve grunted in came to me? not by chance because i was grunting them in and they came to investigate. How many guys have grunted in really nice bucks to within bow range, were they just taking a stroll or did they come to the calling. It has to sound like the real thing when you grunt and if it does depending on the frame of mind of the buck at that time they will come to investigate. This is why grunt snort wheese works so good, thier coming in to watch these two bucks fight for territory. If a guy dosen’t want to call and just sit and wait for one to stroll down his path then thats ok but what about the ones that hear you calling then turn and come your way when they were going another direction. If a doe bleat is used right then a buck thats interisted is more apt to come to breed the doe, thats the way it works. If calling them dosen’t work then how come mock scrapes, tarsal glands from the previous year and doe pee works, they all work when its done at the right time. I think that a deer can be educated to the point where thier more cautious when calling and its not done right, especially when they see the human thats doing it. I think its just like duck and goose hunting when the birds become wise to a certain situation and thats why prerut and full blown rut is the best time to call when thier half blind from wanting to breed and they make more mistakes. Grunting and bleeting is very effictive in timbers with alot of underbrush where the bucks can’t see the animal thats making these sounds, thats why i like to setup in timbers with underbrush so when they hear the calling they come to investigate it because they can’t see the animal. They are very good at pinpointing where a sound comes from, they do this all thier life. Calling is very effective and its just as important as stand placement is, they both have to be done right and at the right times, do these things right and your odds go way up in getting your deer instead of just sitting and waiting.
Who said not to try? Nobody was questioning the effectiveness of calling. It can work great.
How come one time I called a deer he looked my way and went the other? 
How come every deer of mine does this or that? Every situation is different.
All I was doing was backing up that deer do get very educated. Many times deer are educated by us and we never even know it. Whether it calling them, them scenting our walk in trails and avoiding the area, or whatever, they learn quickly.
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