What’s a mature buck

Browsing around a few posts and I got to wondering, What’s a mature buck to you? I don’t mean trophy, I believe as do alot on this site that a trophy is in the eye of the hunter. What is a mature buck? Is it at least 2.5 years old, a rack outside the ears, a number of points, or a measurement number? How many would pass on a 2.5 year old outside the ears with 10 points to wait for a bigger one? Is body size or head gear more important to you? With QDM becoming more popular all the time I wonder how many actually let the deer get to 4.5 or even 5.5 years old. Don’t want to get any bodies undies in a bunch, just curious what you do?

ON OUR FARM NO BUCK CAN BE SHOT THAT ISN’T OUTSIDE THE EARS. A MATURE BUCK TO ME IS A 4-5 YEAR OLD HEAVY HORNED BRUISER WITH A BIG HUGE BODY. TO EACH HIS OWN THOUGH, YOU LEARN AFTER THE FIRST TIME YOU PULL THE TRIGGER WHAT YOU WANT YOUR DEER TO BE. MY WIFE STARTED TO BOW AND GUN HUNT W/ ME 3 YEARS AGO AND HAS ELECTED ON HER OWN TO ONLY SHOOT BIG DEER,WE WAITED 3 YEARS BEFORE SHE PULLED THE TRIGGER ON A BUCK THAT GROSSED 152. SHE PASSED UP SEVERAL SMALL BUCKS AND MANY THAT I WOULD HAVE PROBABBLY SHOT ON DRIVES. MORAL OF THE STORY—WORTH THE WAIT. JUST MY 2 CENTS

ON OUR FARM NO BUCK CAN BE SHOT THAT ISN’T OUTSIDE THE EARS. A MATURE BUCK TO ME IS A 4-5 YEAR OLD HEAVY HORNED BRUISER WITH A BIG HUGE BODY. TO EACH HIS OWN THOUGH, YOU LEARN AFTER THE FIRST TIME YOU PULL THE TRIGGER WHAT YOU WANT YOUR DEER TO BE. MY WIFE STARTED TO BOW AND GUN HUNT W/ ME 3 YEARS AGO AND HAS ELECTED ON HER OWN TO ONLY SHOOT BIG DEER,WE WAITED 3 YEARS BEFORE SHE PULLED THE TRIGGER ON A BUCK THAT GROSSED 152. SHE PASSED UP SEVERAL SMALL BUCKS AND MANY THAT I WOULD HAVE PROBABBLY SHOT ON DRIVES. MORAL OF THE STORY—WORTH THE WAIT. JUST MY 2 CENTS

Where I hunt it is hard to pass on any buck. I hunt on a small farm, but the neighbors that hunt next to us will shoot anything brown. Does it pay for me to pass a younger buck for them to shoot? Also for QDM do you shoot does? I would love to grow a big buck around here but can’t get the help.

Where I hunt it is hard to pass on any buck. I hunt on a small farm, but the neighbors that hunt next to us will shoot anything brown. Does it pay for me to pass a younger buck for them to shoot? Also for QDM do you shoot does? I would love to grow a big buck around here but can’t get the help.

T-Bone, I think it may vary a little depending on Managed Ranches, but genrally speaking a “Mature” Buck is one that is 5.5 years or Older. This is when they have more than likely fully developed on the average. Although bucks still can grow larger antlers all the way up until about 7.5 years old, but are deemed “Mature” @ 5.5 years old. On the most strictly managed ranches, they will not shoot a buck younger than 5.5 years old, no matter what their rack looks like. They will let this buck grow until 5.5 even if it is a 180 class buck.

One needs to be careful when talking about QDM. This is the term that is most widely used but also most often misused. There are a few different management systems out there. One for overall health of the herd, another for growing Monster bucks, one for managing the population in regards to land and food availability, etc.

I tend to try to shoot at least 3.5 year old deer and greater. Perhaps some day my standard will go up to 4.5 years old. Age of the buck is something that is not all that easy to judge unless you spend some time studying the deer and still is hard to tell the difference between 3.5, 4.5 to 5.5 year old bucks. This takes some knowledge and practice to age deer on the hoof. If I have the time I might look for age, but currently right now, I look first at antler size in determining if I want to harvest an animal or not. Sometimes they do not give you a lot of time to study, which I’m sure you are aware of. Right now I use the 130″ rule. I have devised a little calculator in my head where I look for 22″ of tine length per side. If I have that and everything is about average I know I have a shooter for my standards. If it comes up short @ 21 or 20″, it still could make it depending on spread, main beam length and heaviness to the main beam. But generally speaking I look for 22″ of tine length and make sure it is half way typical.

Some times you see one and there is no doubt that you are shooting and you don’t even need to add up tine length in your head, but sometimes they are so close, I have added antlers up in my head for minutes over and over again.

I hope this answers your question.

T-Bone, I think it may vary a little depending on Managed Ranches, but genrally speaking a “Mature” Buck is one that is 5.5 years or Older. This is when they have more than likely fully developed on the average. Although bucks still can grow larger antlers all the way up until about 7.5 years old, but are deemed “Mature” @ 5.5 years old. On the most strictly managed ranches, they will not shoot a buck younger than 5.5 years old, no matter what their rack looks like. They will let this buck grow until 5.5 even if it is a 180 class buck.

One needs to be careful when talking about QDM. This is the term that is most widely used but also most often misused. There are a few different management systems out there. One for overall health of the herd, another for growing Monster bucks, one for managing the population in regards to land and food availability, etc.

I tend to try to shoot at least 3.5 year old deer and greater. Perhaps some day my standard will go up to 4.5 years old. Age of the buck is something that is not all that easy to judge unless you spend some time studying the deer and still is hard to tell the difference between 3.5, 4.5 to 5.5 year old bucks. This takes some knowledge and practice to age deer on the hoof. If I have the time I might look for age, but currently right now, I look first at antler size in determining if I want to harvest an animal or not. Sometimes they do not give you a lot of time to study, which I’m sure you are aware of. Right now I use the 130″ rule. I have devised a little calculator in my head where I look for 22″ of tine length per side. If I have that and everything is about average I know I have a shooter for my standards. If it comes up short @ 21 or 20″, it still could make it depending on spread, main beam length and heaviness to the main beam. But generally speaking I look for 22″ of tine length and make sure it is half way typical.

Some times you see one and there is no doubt that you are shooting and you don’t even need to add up tine length in your head, but sometimes they are so close, I have added antlers up in my head for minutes over and over again.

I hope this answers your question.

A mature buck to me is anything 3.5 years old or older,racks are a different story but you usually can tell a 3.5 by its body size and the way it carries itself. A rack from Iowa on a 3.5 is going to be alot different froma rack in the north woods. I have always found that if it looks good while bowhunting from the tree it always gets bigger when you get your hands on it, I have always been pleasently surprised.

A mature buck to me is anything 3.5 years old or older,racks are a different story but you usually can tell a 3.5 by its body size and the way it carries itself. A rack from Iowa on a 3.5 is going to be alot different froma rack in the north woods. I have always found that if it looks good while bowhunting from the tree it always gets bigger when you get your hands on it, I have always been pleasently surprised.

One of the best questions ever on deer hunting. Like some one said earlier, if you hunt an area that has surrounding land in which “if it’s brown it’s down”, it would be nearly impossible to have any bigger deer. Not just because of the “brown” but because a bigger buck would not likely hang out in that area with all the shooting going on. If you had an opportunity at a “Wall Hanger” it would more than likely be a rutted up buck that was love struck. On the other hand like Lip said QDM has so many different meanings, I have seen a hunting shack with about 30-40 diffent racks on the wall, everything from a 1-1/2 year old to 180 inch monsters. According to the owner he worked just as hard if not harder for some of those little guys as he did the big boys. So to me, depending on your situation that is, you might never get a shot at a mature deer. Did this make any sense, or was I just rambling on?

One of the best questions ever on deer hunting. Like some one said earlier, if you hunt an area that has surrounding land in which “if it’s brown it’s down”, it would be nearly impossible to have any bigger deer. Not just because of the “brown” but because a bigger buck would not likely hang out in that area with all the shooting going on. If you had an opportunity at a “Wall Hanger” it would more than likely be a rutted up buck that was love struck. On the other hand like Lip said QDM has so many different meanings, I have seen a hunting shack with about 30-40 diffent racks on the wall, everything from a 1-1/2 year old to 180 inch monsters. According to the owner he worked just as hard if not harder for some of those little guys as he did the big boys. So to me, depending on your situation that is, you might never get a shot at a mature deer. Did this make any sense, or was I just rambling on?

Where I hunt we try to pass on all the small bucks but if a young buck came threw with a messed up rack we take it out.
Clean up the herd!

Where I hunt we try to pass on all the small bucks but if a young buck came threw with a messed up rack we take it out.
Clean up the herd!

Yeah, ive seen little bucks with odd looking antlers. Bad genes I tell ya, git em outta the woods.

Yeah, ive seen little bucks with odd looking antlers. Bad genes I tell ya, git em outta the woods.

I guess I took or looked at the question differently. I took the question as T-BONE was looking for what age is a deer considered “mature”. I look at this answer being a scientific fact not someone’s opinion. Most information I have heard and learned about from my research, Ranch Managers and Deer Biologists states that a Mature White Tail Deer is one that is 5.5 years old or older. Now this age would be in any woods, and in any state. No matter of what is around or practiced in the area.

I think what is getting confused here is what a “Mature” deer is and what a “Shooter” buck is to hunters. A mature buck is 5.5 years old, as deemed by research done by biologists and scientific studies. What I would consider a shooter buck would be anything that is 3.5 years old or anything with a net score of 130″ P&Y or better. Even though I have passed up some buck sin the 130’s and 140’s . Yet ask another hunter and his answer to what a shooter buck might be in the 150’s or it maybe a forkhorn. A trophy is what each hunter values as a trophy, not what the other guys think

Just thought I would clarify this, my definition and perhaps what T-BONE was looking for???? T-BONE is this what you meant?

I guess I took or looked at the question differently. I took the question as T-BONE was looking for what age is a deer considered “mature”. I look at this answer being a scientific fact not someone’s opinion. Most information I have heard and learned about from my research, Ranch Managers and Deer Biologists states that a Mature White Tail Deer is one that is 5.5 years old or older. Now this age would be in any woods, and in any state. No matter of what is around or practiced in the area.

I think what is getting confused here is what a “Mature” deer is and what a “Shooter” buck is to hunters. A mature buck is 5.5 years old, as deemed by research done by biologists and scientific studies. What I would consider a shooter buck would be anything that is 3.5 years old or anything with a net score of 130″ P&Y or better. Even though I have passed up some buck sin the 130’s and 140’s . Yet ask another hunter and his answer to what a shooter buck might be in the 150’s or it maybe a forkhorn. A trophy is what each hunter values as a trophy, not what the other guys think

Just thought I would clarify this, my definition and perhaps what T-BONE was looking for???? T-BONE is this what you meant?

Precisely Lip, I wanted the definition of a mature buck. I realize that a shooter is a very broad range. Might it be true that there is a little variation of when a deer matures according to it’s food source and habitat? Will a buck in excellent habitat with good food source mature at a younger age and just platue at that level for a couple years before it begins go down ward?

Precisely Lip, I wanted the definition of a mature buck. I realize that a shooter is a very broad range. Might it be true that there is a little variation of when a deer matures according to it’s food source and habitat? Will a buck in excellent habitat with good food source mature at a younger age and just platue at that level for a couple years before it begins go down ward?

My answer is NO. I think a well fed and nutritioned deer would still mature @ 5.5 years old, but could continue to grow bigger body and rack due to the health of the animal, well past the 5.5 year old mark. Food source and availability are only two things to consider when talking about antler development and body size. Genetics still comes into play, but a good food source and right mixture of foods (proteins, fats, etc) will help a buck achieve their full potential in both rack and body size. Not that all deer will be giants, but will help each individual grow as big as their genetics will allow. Same on the other side of the ball, we could have a good genetic buck that does not get the right food and minerals and will lack in their true potential body size and antler development. I have seen studies where bucks have stayed relatively small for the first 3-5 years of their life and all of a sudden sprout a very impressive head gear the following year. Kind of like a growth spurt.

I really think another thing that has helped these bucks the last few years is the mild winters we have had her en the Midwest. I think we all can say that we have seen more bruiser bucks taken from the Midwest in the last few years, then possibly we have seen from the previous 10 years These bucks come out of the rut very wore down and highly undernourished. With these mild winters, they are able to find food before the big snow covers it all up, or even some years able to find food all year long. These bucks enter the Spring time in way better health condition, than in years past. When it comes to feeding in the Spring and Summer these bucks are gorging themselves and rather than the nutrition going to replenish their body, health and strength. Their antlers are seeing the nutrients and are able to grow bigger headgear and fully using their genetic potential, because of this. This is just my opinion but I’m sue many are on the same page with me.

My answer is NO. I think a well fed and nutritioned deer would still mature @ 5.5 years old, but could continue to grow bigger body and rack due to the health of the animal, well past the 5.5 year old mark. Food source and availability are only two things to consider when talking about antler development and body size. Genetics still comes into play, but a good food source and right mixture of foods (proteins, fats, etc) will help a buck achieve their full potential in both rack and body size. Not that all deer will be giants, but will help each individual grow as big as their genetics will allow. Same on the other side of the ball, we could have a good genetic buck that does not get the right food and minerals and will lack in their true potential body size and antler development. I have seen studies where bucks have stayed relatively small for the first 3-5 years of their life and all of a sudden sprout a very impressive head gear the following year. Kind of like a growth spurt.

I really think another thing that has helped these bucks the last few years is the mild winters we have had her en the Midwest. I think we all can say that we have seen more bruiser bucks taken from the Midwest in the last few years, then possibly we have seen from the previous 10 years These bucks come out of the rut very wore down and highly undernourished. With these mild winters, they are able to find food before the big snow covers it all up, or even some years able to find food all year long. These bucks enter the Spring time in way better health condition, than in years past. When it comes to feeding in the Spring and Summer these bucks are gorging themselves and rather than the nutrition going to replenish their body, health and strength. Their antlers are seeing the nutrients and are able to grow bigger headgear and fully using their genetic potential, because of this. This is just my opinion but I’m sue many are on the same page with me.

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Yeah, ive seen little bucks with odd looking antlers. Bad genes I tell ya, git em outta the woods

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Are you guys sure? I’m not saying you are wrong, I’m just saying are you sure?? If you mean a small deer with a goofy rack. As being a young deer (.5-3.5) years old, with a goofy rack. Are you sure it is bad genes??? Or is it possibly a young deer with good nutrition?? What if a monster non-typical came by you? Would you call him a “BIG” deer with “BAD” genes????? Deer grow non-typical (goofy) points often from having superior nutrition and having the genetics to do so. Would you frown upon having a huge non typical (goofy rack) in the woods where you hunt? I know I wouldn’t. That is one of my goals is to shoot a non-typical brute.

I’m not saying you are wrong and I’m right, but I debate on this subject often. This is a highly scrutinized topic among two different types of deer management. One theory is to shoot all of those young .5 to 3.5 year old bucks with the goofy racks and get them out of the herd and gene pool. The other side of the ball, another management practice says to wait until a deer is somewhat mature (4.5 years and above) to make the call before you cull out a buck from the population and gene pool. Not all deer is going to show their true potential at a early age. Just cause it is a fork buck @ 2.5 years old, it does not mean it will always be a small buck. Perhaps he did not receive his share of food as a fawn or nubbin buck. Refer back to my previous post about the studies on deer growth. Just like we humans do not grow at the same rate, deer don’t either.

It is just something to think about. Again I’m not saying your wrong, because I don’t know the answer for sure. Yet, I truly believe that those little goofy rack bucks have as good of a chance at sporting some nice head gear as any other buck does. Perhaps, even a better chance. Again, just my $.02 , my opinion, and something to think about.

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Yeah, ive seen little bucks with odd looking antlers. Bad genes I tell ya, git em outta the woods

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Are you guys sure? I’m not saying you are wrong, I’m just saying are you sure?? If you mean a small deer with a goofy rack. As being a young deer (.5-3.5) years old, with a goofy rack. Are you sure it is bad genes??? Or is it possibly a young deer with good nutrition?? What if a monster non-typical came by you? Would you call him a “BIG” deer with “BAD” genes????? Deer grow non-typical (goofy) points often from having superior nutrition and having the genetics to do so. Would you frown upon having a huge non typical (goofy rack) in the woods where you hunt? I know I wouldn’t. That is one of my goals is to shoot a non-typical brute.

I’m not saying you are wrong and I’m right, but I debate on this subject often. This is a highly scrutinized topic among two different types of deer management. One theory is to shoot all of those young .5 to 3.5 year old bucks with the goofy racks and get them out of the herd and gene pool. The other side of the ball, another management practice says to wait until a deer is somewhat mature (4.5 years and above) to make the call before you cull out a buck from the population and gene pool. Not all deer is going to show their true potential at a early age. Just cause it is a fork buck @ 2.5 years old, it does not mean it will always be a small buck. Perhaps he did not receive his share of food as a fawn or nubbin buck. Refer back to my previous post about the studies on deer growth. Just like we humans do not grow at the same rate, deer don’t either.

It is just something to think about. Again I’m not saying your wrong, because I don’t know the answer for sure. Yet, I truly believe that those little goofy rack bucks have as good of a chance at sporting some nice head gear as any other buck does. Perhaps, even a better chance. Again, just my $.02 , my opinion, and something to think about.

I can show you some pictures I have of a 1.5 year old buck with small thin spikes that grew to be a B & C buck at 5.5 years old. As long as the deer appears healthy and the age structure and herd have balance, I believe in letting all the little ones go and selectively harvesting a few does each year for meat.

My neighbors do not believe in QDM and they hammer everything that moves. It’s unfortunate that this happens but it shouldn’t stop one from practicing what they believe. Our QDM paid dividends this year to the tune of a 166″ typical 12 pter. that my brother shot and has proven successful in past years with some 130-140″ deer in an area (Marquette County, WI) where most go by the belief that “if it’s brown, it’s down”. If you believe in QDM and wanting to produce the most healthy and mature deer herd, don’t let the actions of others stop you. I’m here to tell you it CAN and WILL work!!

I can show you some pictures I have of a 1.5 year old buck with small thin spikes that grew to be a B & C buck at 5.5 years old. As long as the deer appears healthy and the age structure and herd have balance, I believe in letting all the little ones go and selectively harvesting a few does each year for meat.

My neighbors do not believe in QDM and they hammer everything that moves. It’s unfortunate that this happens but it shouldn’t stop one from practicing what they believe. Our QDM paid dividends this year to the tune of a 166″ typical 12 pter. that my brother shot and has proven successful in past years with some 130-140″ deer in an area (Marquette County, WI) where most go by the belief that “if it’s brown, it’s down”. If you believe in QDM and wanting to produce the most healthy and mature deer herd, don’t let the actions of others stop you. I’m here to tell you it CAN and WILL work!!

Just another quick note on the goofy racked bucks. I agree with Rip in that it could be the start of a non-typical…and it could also mean the deer was injured while in velvet. During the growing stage, he could’ve damaged it somehow and that could’ve caused the antler to grow goofy!

Just a thought!

Just another quick note on the goofy racked bucks. I agree with Rip in that it could be the start of a non-typical…and it could also mean the deer was injured while in velvet. During the growing stage, he could’ve damaged it somehow and that could’ve caused the antler to grow goofy!

Just a thought!

Good point Dartman, forgot about that one. It definielty could of knocked and injuredduring velvet stage. My point and opinion is that we just need to let these deer mature somewhat before deciding to cull it.

Good point Dartman, forgot about that one. It definielty could of knocked and injuredduring velvet stage. My point and opinion is that we just need to let these deer mature somewhat before deciding to cull it.

Most of the shows I watch, where they are taking out management bucks, they are at least 3.5 years old, and have basket 8 point racks. These are deer that they have watched growing for the last 3 years and have seen the genetics aren’t there for bigger racks. They only take them out, so they can’t breed the Doe’s. They also cost about 1/2 what a regular trophy hunt does at these ranches. I once heard awhile back, that a buck with an odd side antler, say the right side is 3 points and the left is 5, that more than likely this deer suffered some kind of injury on its left side ? Such as being hit by a car and a damaged leg. Anyone heard of this before ?

Big g