Here’s some logic for ya….

I agree with you guys 100% but with that short season and the chance to go home empty handed does not sit well with many people. Wheather your the first or not I think its going to be hard to get people to follow. Just to clarify here so I dont look like the “spike” killer I have only taken 4 bucks since I have started hunting (20 years ago) and several does when permitted and have even ended the season empty handed. 4 bucks 2 last season, second one of the season is on the wall , one about ten years ago and one about 12 years ago. All on public land. I do beleive they exist you just need to spend the time scouting.

The 9 pointer I shot about 12 years ago was taken to get out of breeding stock. He was taken for his tall narrow spead of a bushell rack though. Probalyy only a 12-13in. spread. If he would have been a good quality deer I may have let him pass.

I just checked the info for shotgun season down here in SE MN and they are giving us a doe tag for buck season too. I think in our area where the guys will take a small buck to fill there freezer this should help when they can take a doe and then sit back and wait for the big guy. If we still have huge amounts of small bucks being taking it will be pretty sad.

I just checked the info for shotgun season down here in SE MN and they are giving us a doe tag for buck season too. I think in our area where the guys will take a small buck to fill there freezer this should help when they can take a doe and then sit back and wait for the big guy. If we still have huge amounts of small bucks being taking it will be pretty sad.

Ripper-

if it was my farm and I had enough arces to hold the deer on my property year round with no chance of him moving next door just to get blasted, then yes I would take the 4-5 yr old 8 points out. but there are always exceptions. the 145 that I shot 2 years ago was an 4 1/2 eight, but that is so rare.. he had 6 inch brows, 12″ G2 8″ G3 and had total legth of 20″ with a 20 in spread. He also had great mass throughout.

I would let him does for sure

but the smaller ones that you see year in year out that don’t keep growing, time to I watch a deer from 95-2001, grow from a spike to a nice 10. the reason I know it was the same deer is he had a small patch of white on the top of his I have 4 of the 6 sheds. he went from a spike to 6 to 8 to big 8 to 10 then was shot by my buddy as a very nice 10 that scored in the low 140’s

I guess if people were paying me to shoot monsters I would take out all the 8’s, If I paid $3Gs for a hunt I want a chance at monster, not a great buck but an absolute monster. Just a chance though. The only way to increase that is to start weeding through the ones that won’t be brusiers.

Ripper-

if it was my farm and I had enough arces to hold the deer on my property year round with no chance of him moving next door just to get blasted, then yes I would take the 4-5 yr old 8 points out. but there are always exceptions. the 145 that I shot 2 years ago was an 4 1/2 eight, but that is so rare.. he had 6 inch brows, 12″ G2 8″ G3 and had total legth of 20″ with a 20 in spread. He also had great mass throughout.

I would let him does for sure

but the smaller ones that you see year in year out that don’t keep growing, time to I watch a deer from 95-2001, grow from a spike to a nice 10. the reason I know it was the same deer is he had a small patch of white on the top of his I have 4 of the 6 sheds. he went from a spike to 6 to 8 to big 8 to 10 then was shot by my buddy as a very nice 10 that scored in the low 140’s

I guess if people were paying me to shoot monsters I would take out all the 8’s, If I paid $3Gs for a hunt I want a chance at monster, not a great buck but an absolute monster. Just a chance though. The only way to increase that is to start weeding through the ones that won’t be brusiers.

I have not read up on the 2005 regs yet but I believe that you will have to apply for a doe permit for the buck season not everyone that buys license for the buck season will get a doe permit, it is a lottery system just like the old doe season. This is the way it was last year, and there is a deadline to apply some time in early September I believe. Like I said I have not seen the 2005 regs yet so I might be wrong on this I will have to do some reading up on this.

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I just checked the info for shotgun season down here in SE MN and they are giving us a doe tag for buck season too. I think in our area where the guys will take a small buck to fill there freezer this should help when they can take a doe and then sit back and wait for the big guy. If we still have huge amounts of small bucks being taking it will be pretty sad.

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I have not read up on the 2005 regs yet but I believe that you will have to apply for a doe permit for the buck season not everyone that buys license for the buck season will get a doe permit, it is a lottery system just like the old doe season. This is the way it was last year, and there is a deadline to apply some time in early September I believe. Like I said I have not seen the 2005 regs yet so I might be wrong on this I will have to do some reading up on this.

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I just checked the info for shotgun season down here in SE MN and they are giving us a doe tag for buck season too. I think in our area where the guys will take a small buck to fill there freezer this should help when they can take a doe and then sit back and wait for the big guy. If we still have huge amounts of small bucks being taking it will be pretty sad.

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Lip Ripper and I are on the same page when it comes to deer hunting he said it all there is not much I can add to what he has said here.
Everyone is at different stages in there deer hunting and we can not expect everyone to think the same way we do, and yes Jake I agree with you that I wish that more guys would pass on the basket rack and take a doe instead and chances are that they will see a doe before they see any buck. With the changes in the buck season we are slowly getting there, like the Kid said just like CRP we are slowly getting there with QDM, we just need to keep spreading the word and we will get there it may take time but it will happen. Heck lord knows it took me a long time to get where I am at today when it comes to practicing QDM, I hate to admit how many small bucks I took over the years before I got to where I am at today. We just need to be careful that we do not criticize someone for shooting that small buck but rather try to educate them and eveduwally they will get there also.

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John R-

My suggestion would be load up on as many doe tags as you can. They are the ones that control the population. We all know that one buck can handle/breed… well let’s just say a lot of does . So killing one immature buck will not do anything to control the population. Chances are he will not even breed any way. But harvesting a mature doe will take out 3 deer ( doe plus two offspring) form the herd. The optimum ratio is 2 to 1 or 1 to 1 doe to buck. We all know most areas are far away from that. So by you passing up that smaller buck and harvesting a mature doe or two is actually cutting the population down a lot farther.

Small buck = 1 deer
doe = 3 deer (3 times as many) I would explain this to the farmer, if he questions it or not. I would bring this up and tell him your plan of “deer managment” for his property. After and during filling all my doe tags if the monster steps out in the clear…. by all means Drop the Hammmer

I have came across this same thing and the farmers all seem to understand. Just remember to respect their wishes and go out of your way to help him out, keep things better than when you found them and the keeping premission thing should work out just fine!

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Lip Ripper and I are on the same page when it comes to deer hunting he said it all there is not much I can add to what he has said here.
Everyone is at different stages in there deer hunting and we can not expect everyone to think the same way we do, and yes Jake I agree with you that I wish that more guys would pass on the basket rack and take a doe instead and chances are that they will see a doe before they see any buck. With the changes in the buck season we are slowly getting there, like the Kid said just like CRP we are slowly getting there with QDM, we just need to keep spreading the word and we will get there it may take time but it will happen. Heck lord knows it took me a long time to get where I am at today when it comes to practicing QDM, I hate to admit how many small bucks I took over the years before I got to where I am at today. We just need to be careful that we do not criticize someone for shooting that small buck but rather try to educate them and eveduwally they will get there also.

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John R-

My suggestion would be load up on as many doe tags as you can. They are the ones that control the population. We all know that one buck can handle/breed… well let’s just say a lot of does . So killing one immature buck will not do anything to control the population. Chances are he will not even breed any way. But harvesting a mature doe will take out 3 deer ( doe plus two offspring) form the herd. The optimum ratio is 2 to 1 or 1 to 1 doe to buck. We all know most areas are far away from that. So by you passing up that smaller buck and harvesting a mature doe or two is actually cutting the population down a lot farther.

Small buck = 1 deer
doe = 3 deer (3 times as many) I would explain this to the farmer, if he questions it or not. I would bring this up and tell him your plan of “deer managment” for his property. After and during filling all my doe tags if the monster steps out in the clear…. by all means Drop the Hammmer

I have came across this same thing and the farmers all seem to understand. Just remember to respect their wishes and go out of your way to help him out, keep things better than when you found them and the keeping premission thing should work out just fine!

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The 3A Season
In Minnesota, a license is valid anywhere in the zone and permit areas are designated as lottery, managed, and intensive. The last two designations allow for the taking of antlerless deer without making application in a lottery. All three designations exist in Zone 3A. Below is a breakdown of what you can do in each permit area. Keep in mind that what you can harvest is dependent on the classification of the permit area. For example, if you’re in a lottery area you cannot take a doe without an either-sex permit. However, in a managed or intensive area you can take a doe with your regular license and buy bonus permits.

LOTTERY – Permit areas 338, 339, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345. You must apply for an either-sex permit by September 8, 2005. You can only take a doe in one of these areas if you have an either-sex permit. Bonus permits are not allowed in any of these permit areas.

MANAGED – Permit areas 346, 347, 348, 349. You can take a deer of either sex and use one bonus permit in one of these areas. You do not need to apply for an either-sex permit.

INTENSIVE – Permit area 337. You do not need to apply for an either-sex permit. You can take a deer of either-sex and use up to 4 bonus permits in any of these areas. You do not need to apply for an either-sex permit. The bag limit is 5 deer total.

The 3A Season
In Minnesota, a license is valid anywhere in the zone and permit areas are designated as lottery, managed, and intensive. The last two designations allow for the taking of antlerless deer without making application in a lottery. All three designations exist in Zone 3A. Below is a breakdown of what you can do in each permit area. Keep in mind that what you can harvest is dependent on the classification of the permit area. For example, if you’re in a lottery area you cannot take a doe without an either-sex permit. However, in a managed or intensive area you can take a doe with your regular license and buy bonus permits.

LOTTERY – Permit areas 338, 339, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345. You must apply for an either-sex permit by September 8, 2005. You can only take a doe in one of these areas if you have an either-sex permit. Bonus permits are not allowed in any of these permit areas.

MANAGED – Permit areas 346, 347, 348, 349. You can take a deer of either sex and use one bonus permit in one of these areas. You do not need to apply for an either-sex permit.

INTENSIVE – Permit area 337. You do not need to apply for an either-sex permit. You can take a deer of either-sex and use up to 4 bonus permits in any of these areas. You do not need to apply for an either-sex permit. The bag limit is 5 deer total.

Thats straight from the DNR website. No application needed. Thanks though

Thats straight from the DNR website. No application needed. Thanks though

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Ok Stillakid, now lets take it a step farther and really confuse people . What about these farms that are QDM, do you guys believe in shooting Mature 8 pointers to manage the herd and get the 8 pointers out of the gene breeding pool? What are your thoughts on that?

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Confuse them? Then everybody’d be like me!

My thoughts on the farming are mixed but what I’m observing on a lot of “game farms” is that they practice QBM rather than QDM. That’d be “Quality Buck Management”, in case you’re wondering.

As mentioned before, if the deer can’t go beyond the acreage I hold, then there are some logistics to weeding out the 8’s. We wouldn’t want to eliminate them completely but there should be some level of reduction. The big guys take up a lot of area and too many in one area is going to spell trouble, so some level of dominance has to be monitored.

If I were just attracting large numbers of deer into my area, I wouldn’t weed out the 8’s at all. At this age, they’re ready to start “hunting” themselves. They’ll travel vast distances looking for does and if we have a bunch of 8’s looking for new does, this will help establish new areas with higher potentials for big bucks. Many times, the traveling buck returns to his home turf after the rut is over but sometimes they stay. The ones that stay are the ones who successfully found does, mated, and are now “belonging” to that area, adopting it as “their” turf. If nothing bigger is around, they’ll move right in.

Once this trend saturates, you could even upgrade the practice to 10’s. Not all 10’s are created equal and they too are looking for dominence and does.

I forget the stats but don’t most deer have a home range of 2 sq. miles? It’s feasible through good QDM, and well thought out QBM, that we could be producing one new 10 per home range annually. Some will get killed, some will be harvested, some will grow old and just die. But in reality, if they’re are numbers of 8’s being left alone, there will always be more 10’s coming up. AND, if too many are in one area, they will begin to search out new areas to dominate. This spells POTENTIAL on an annual basis for a good number of hunters.

At the base of all this is the mindset that does need to be harvested along with the bucks. Harvest does to control numbers and selectively harvest bucks to keep the quality of the herd high and maximize every hunter’s potential of obtaining a trophy rack, somewhere in their hunting career.

All of this is easier said than done but speading the word is key. Since we no longer HAVE to hunt for food, it truly is a sport and the rewards come in many forms. Just like the way we often find solice in a day without a single fish on the line, hunting is NOT all about what you bring home any more either. It’s the challenge of the game. The being outdoors. The quality time spent with family and/or friends. Once we recognize that the rewards of hunting don’t ALWAYS have to be in the freezer or on the wall, the sooner we can boost QDM to the next level and find out just how far we can take this science.

Happy hunting guys!

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Ok Stillakid, now lets take it a step farther and really confuse people . What about these farms that are QDM, do you guys believe in shooting Mature 8 pointers to manage the herd and get the 8 pointers out of the gene breeding pool? What are your thoughts on that?

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Confuse them? Then everybody’d be like me!

My thoughts on the farming are mixed but what I’m observing on a lot of “game farms” is that they practice QBM rather than QDM. That’d be “Quality Buck Management”, in case you’re wondering.

As mentioned before, if the deer can’t go beyond the acreage I hold, then there are some logistics to weeding out the 8’s. We wouldn’t want to eliminate them completely but there should be some level of reduction. The big guys take up a lot of area and too many in one area is going to spell trouble, so some level of dominance has to be monitored.

If I were just attracting large numbers of deer into my area, I wouldn’t weed out the 8’s at all. At this age, they’re ready to start “hunting” themselves. They’ll travel vast distances looking for does and if we have a bunch of 8’s looking for new does, this will help establish new areas with higher potentials for big bucks. Many times, the traveling buck returns to his home turf after the rut is over but sometimes they stay. The ones that stay are the ones who successfully found does, mated, and are now “belonging” to that area, adopting it as “their” turf. If nothing bigger is around, they’ll move right in.

Once this trend saturates, you could even upgrade the practice to 10’s. Not all 10’s are created equal and they too are looking for dominence and does.

I forget the stats but don’t most deer have a home range of 2 sq. miles? It’s feasible through good QDM, and well thought out QBM, that we could be producing one new 10 per home range annually. Some will get killed, some will be harvested, some will grow old and just die. But in reality, if they’re are numbers of 8’s being left alone, there will always be more 10’s coming up. AND, if too many are in one area, they will begin to search out new areas to dominate. This spells POTENTIAL on an annual basis for a good number of hunters.

At the base of all this is the mindset that does need to be harvested along with the bucks. Harvest does to control numbers and selectively harvest bucks to keep the quality of the herd high and maximize every hunter’s potential of obtaining a trophy rack, somewhere in their hunting career.

All of this is easier said than done but speading the word is key. Since we no longer HAVE to hunt for food, it truly is a sport and the rewards come in many forms. Just like the way we often find solice in a day without a single fish on the line, hunting is NOT all about what you bring home any more either. It’s the challenge of the game. The being outdoors. The quality time spent with family and/or friends. Once we recognize that the rewards of hunting don’t ALWAYS have to be in the freezer or on the wall, the sooner we can boost QDM to the next level and find out just how far we can take this science.

Happy hunting guys!

Thanks for posting the regs Ryan, I bow hunt and I also shot gun hunt 343 during the 3A Buck season. Correct me if I am wrong here but the way I am reading this is the same way it was last year, in zone 343 during the 3A buck season you need a permit for a doe.

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LOTTERY – Permit areas 338, 339, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345. You must apply for an either-sex permit by September 8, 2005. You can only take a doe in one of these areas if you have an either-sex permit. Bonus permits are not allowed in any of these permit areas.

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The exception to this would be you can use a bonus permit (doe tag) with a bow in the designated areas.

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The 3A Season
In Minnesota, a license is valid anywhere in the zone and permit areas are designated as lottery, managed, and intensive. The last two designations allow for the taking of antlerless deer without making application in a lottery. All three designations exist in Zone 3A. Below is a breakdown of what you can do in each permit area. Keep in mind that what you can harvest is dependent on the classification of the permit area. For example, if you’re in a lottery area you cannot take a doe without an either-sex permit. However, in a managed or intensive area you can take a doe with your regular license and buy bonus permits.

LOTTERY – Permit areas 338, 339, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345. You must apply for an either-sex permit by September 8, 2005. You can only take a doe in one of these areas if you have an either-sex permit. Bonus permits are not allowed in any of these permit areas.

MANAGED – Permit areas 346, 347, 348, 349. You can take a deer of either sex and use one bonus permit in one of these areas. You do not need to apply for an either-sex permit.

INTENSIVE – Permit area 337. You do not need to apply for an either-sex permit. You can take a deer of either-sex and use up to 4 bonus permits in any of these areas. You do not need to apply for an either-sex permit. The bag limit is 5 deer total.

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Thanks for posting the regs Ryan, I bow hunt and I also shot gun hunt 343 during the 3A Buck season. Correct me if I am wrong here but the way I am reading this is the same way it was last year, in zone 343 during the 3A buck season you need a permit for a doe.

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LOTTERY – Permit areas 338, 339, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345. You must apply for an either-sex permit by September 8, 2005. You can only take a doe in one of these areas if you have an either-sex permit. Bonus permits are not allowed in any of these permit areas.

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The exception to this would be you can use a bonus permit (doe tag) with a bow in the designated areas.

Quote:

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The 3A Season
In Minnesota, a license is valid anywhere in the zone and permit areas are designated as lottery, managed, and intensive. The last two designations allow for the taking of antlerless deer without making application in a lottery. All three designations exist in Zone 3A. Below is a breakdown of what you can do in each permit area. Keep in mind that what you can harvest is dependent on the classification of the permit area. For example, if you’re in a lottery area you cannot take a doe without an either-sex permit. However, in a managed or intensive area you can take a doe with your regular license and buy bonus permits.

LOTTERY – Permit areas 338, 339, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345. You must apply for an either-sex permit by September 8, 2005. You can only take a doe in one of these areas if you have an either-sex permit. Bonus permits are not allowed in any of these permit areas.

MANAGED – Permit areas 346, 347, 348, 349. You can take a deer of either sex and use one bonus permit in one of these areas. You do not need to apply for an either-sex permit.

INTENSIVE – Permit area 337. You do not need to apply for an either-sex permit. You can take a deer of either-sex and use up to 4 bonus permits in any of these areas. You do not need to apply for an either-sex permit. The bag limit is 5 deer total.

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Correct Steve, i am in 347 and it states we dont have to apply. In our area we had to apply before and not very many tags where given out during buck season and now you can just buy you doe tag over the counter like a bonus tag with your bow. I think this is a really good thing to try and see if they can get guys to take some more doe.

Correct Steve, i am in 347 and it states we dont have to apply. In our area we had to apply before and not very many tags where given out during buck season and now you can just buy you doe tag over the counter like a bonus tag with your bow. I think this is a really good thing to try and see if they can get guys to take some more doe.

I am all for that shoot more does and let the basket racks walk!

I am all for that shoot more does and let the basket racks walk!